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      03-01-2009, 11:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by johnnymu View Post
I quoted thank you very much. You even quoted that I quoted. See that's whats so sad about you, you don't give a flying f*ck what others say you go around and try find fault and just want to argue. You are a very sad individual that goes through every thread i'm in and try to argue just for the sake of argument. Please go back to your rock you came from cause it's getting old.
Looked through it three times. Still don't see ANY credit given to American Thinker or Randall Hoven.

That is plagiary, no matter what rock you hide under.
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      03-01-2009, 11:06 PM   #24
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There was alot of text in the quoted article (some of which i agree with, so that i dont). But IMO, the biggest thing to IMO is that the national debt under Bush went from 5.7T to 10T (I've seen numbers from 9.7 to 10.1T). That is basically doubling in my book.

I also understand that the national debt is sometimes compared to the GDP, but debt is debt.
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      03-01-2009, 11:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Looked through it three times. Still don't see ANY credit given to American Thinker or Randall Hoven.

That is plagiary, no matter what rock you hide under.
what are you like 10? give it a rest already. I don't need to give credit to myself or anyone else if I don't feel like it. I didn't plagiarize, and you can obviously see that I quoted, Miss grammar queen. Just stick with the subject and leave your personal belonging at the door.
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      03-01-2009, 11:20 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
There was alot of text in the quoted article (some of which i agree with, so that i dont). But IMO, the biggest thing to IMO is that the national debt under Bush went from 5.7T to 10T (I've seen numbers from 9.7 to 10.1T). That is basically doubling in my book.

I also understand that the national debt is sometimes compared to the GDP, but debt is debt.

If you are interested in the ratio of debit to GDP, here is an interesting graph from http://zfacts.com/p/318.html:

(This graph is based upon data published by the Federal government (OMB) that is reprinted here: http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/OMB-H...-Table-7-1.pdf )
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      03-01-2009, 11:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by johnnymu View Post
what are you like 10? give it a rest already. I don't need to give credit to myself or anyone else if I don't feel like it. I didn't plagiarize, and you can obviously see that I quoted, Miss grammar queen. Just stick with the subject and leave your personal belonging at the door.
I refer you to the title of this thread....

Go back and give credit where credit is due in your original post and stop being a crybaby and trying to push off your failures on me.

Last edited by Nixon; 03-02-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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      03-02-2009, 06:48 AM   #28
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johnnymu doesn't have 1 original thought. he's a pro at google copy-pasta. never anything original.

just like anything else made in taiwan.
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      03-02-2009, 06:54 AM   #29
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I never said I was a Republican, I'm a conservative which is a big difference. There used to be a time when Republicans were conservatives too, but anymore I call most of them RINO's, Republicans In Name Only. There are almost no degrees of separation between Democrats and Republicans anymore. They both appear to believe in BIG: Big Government, Big Spending, Big everything.

Before this last election, I was telling my friends "We should throw them ALL out of office! Every last one of them." I still feel the same way. Obama has said that one man cannot create a tidal wave of change. That is true, especially when all of his appointments are prior administration retreads, and nearly every member of the House and Senate (Repubs and Dems) is a damn career politician that has been there forever. Hard to call that "change"....
In that case I totally agree with you. Dems and RINO's are the same thing. A bunch of crooks. I feel sorry for Obama because I honestly believe he wants real change but he has to work with people who are career politicians/liars/scumbags/criminals. The power goes straight to their heads and poisons them.
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      03-02-2009, 08:03 AM   #30
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johnnymu doesn't have 1 original thought. he's a pro at google copy-pasta. never anything original.

just like anything else made in taiwan.
Nice racist remark. Even if it didn't come from me the point matter still stands. Youve been babbling and giving blame to one party is uncall for. I have been all along the blame should not be cast one member or group but youre too stubborn and keep going on and on about giving democrats a chance. Now I quote another source similar to what I've been arguing with stats you go and make a racial remark. Very mature
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      03-02-2009, 08:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
I refer you to the title of this thread....

Go back and give credit where credit is due in your original post and stop being a crybaby and trying to push off your failures on me.
I originally pointed a case you back fire and cry about grammar instead of sticking to the topic. All the threads I've entered you have a whinning remark, you should take your own medicine.
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      03-02-2009, 09:05 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
If you are interested in the ratio of debit to GDP, here is an interesting graph from http://zfacts.com/p/318.html:

(This graph is based upon data published by the Federal government (OMB) that is reprinted here: http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/OMB-H...-Table-7-1.pdf )
I understand the graph, but my point is that debt doesn't go down just because everybody is working harder. Its a well known fact that worker productivity keeps rising. American workers are some of the best in the world (and keep getting better). The more productive workers are, the better the GDP. This really has no effect on the government's deficit.

Its really like a bill collector calling your house and you saying "I don't have any money, but my wife and children have been working really hard". If China calls us on our debt we can't say "well our companies have been really effecient this year and are more productive than ever".
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      03-02-2009, 09:21 AM   #33
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If i'm not seeing something and totally missing the boat (above), someone please let me know. But i think the practice of trying to balance the deficit numbers with the GDP is stupid and a copout. And i'm blaming any of you for pointing it out. I know that it is sometimes reported this way. I think debt should always be reported as what is owed.
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      03-02-2009, 05:03 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
If i'm not seeing something and totally missing the boat (above), someone please let me know. But i think the practice of trying to balance the deficit numbers with the GDP is stupid and a copout. And i'm blaming any of you for pointing it out. I know that it is sometimes reported this way. I think debt should always be reported as what is owed.
Oh, I think you are completely right. My point of posting the graph was to show that under ANY metric, even debt to GDP, the Reagan/Bush/Bush economic model STILL looks pretty bad.

But yes, the debt is what it is. It doesn't get smaller just by using a different tape measure.
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      03-02-2009, 05:38 PM   #35
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yay republicans! funny how you guys didn't bitch about bush slashing taxes on richest americans in the midst of a war all the while letting fiscal spending BALLOOON out of control.

Strength of this nation lies in the middle class, not the fortunate few and the dumb bible toting rednecks who back them up.

We gotta get people back on their feet and the national debt will be pushed down. Apparently nobody remembers Clinton had a budget SURPLUS when he left office, oh where would we be if we could go back to 2000 and do it all over again.

I don't know where the hell you've been, but myself and all of my conservative friends have done nothing but bitch about the growth of government and government spending for the past 20 years!

We've only had 5 years since 1968 that didn't have a deficit ('68, '98, '99, '00, '01.) Yes, Clinton managed to have surpluses for 3 of his 8 years, and Bush II managed only 1 surplus ('01). So what? I don't think government should be allowed to spend more than they collect, period. Maybe once the staggering public debt has been brought down to a reasonable level.

One more interesting fact too, 2007 had the highest revenue collection of all time:
Individual Income Taxes - $1,163.5 Billion ($879.5 Billion in 1999, +32.3%)
Corporate Taxes - $370.2 Billion ($184.7 Billion in 1999, +100.4%)
SS Taxes - $869.6 Billion ($611.8 Billion in 1999, +42.1%)
Other - $164.9 Billion ($151.6 Billion in 1999, +8.8%)

That totals $2.6 Trillion dollars! If they can't get it done with that kind of money, then they need to stop wasting it on bullshit. I say fully fund education, infrastructure (roads), fire, police and military, and whatever is left over gets divided up among the remaining programs.

The problem is that Americans believe they are entitled to health care, a house, a car, a retirement, etc. The other major problem is that every little thing that goes wrong is seen as a payday for someone. Doctor makes an honest mistake during a surgery? CHA-CHING! Payday! A major cost of health care is malpractice insurance. In Washington State, OB/GYN's are saying "piss off!" to the high cost of working here and leaving.

Don't even get me started about the so called "Patriot Act".


source of revenue numbers noted above: http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.shtml
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      03-02-2009, 06:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by johnnymu View Post
Nice racist remark. Even if it didn't come from me the point matter still stands. Youve been babbling and giving blame to one party is uncall for. I have been all along the blame should not be cast one member or group but youre too stubborn and keep going on and on about giving democrats a chance. Now I quote another source similar to what I've been arguing with stats you go and make a racial remark. Very mature
i'm not a racist, i was just making a joke. you gotta admit it was funny.

my point is this: the economy will recover when people feel CONFIDENT again. so either the government has to let the market correct itself (ie banks failing, automakers bankrupt, foreclosures, sky high unemployment, and basically chaos). or the gov't steps in with an expensive band aid solution to save some big companies, and hope that the actions they take create more CONFIDENCE in the economy. Once people start spending and stop hiding money under their beds, the economy will be fine. RIght now, people are scared outta their minds.
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      03-02-2009, 07:50 PM   #37
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i'm not a racist, i was just making a joke. you gotta admit it was funny.

my point is this: the economy will recover when people feel CONFIDENT again. so either the government has to let the market correct itself (ie banks failing, automakers bankrupt, foreclosures, sky high unemployment, and basically chaos). or the gov't steps in with an expensive band aid solution to save some big companies, and hope that the actions they take create more CONFIDENCE in the economy. Once people start spending and stop hiding money under their beds, the economy will be fine. RIght now, people are scared outta their minds.
Ok, I took it the wrong way.

I totally agree with your assessment right there. Just remember you said there's two choices. I choose to be a free market solution, you on the other hand want assistance from government. Either way, our life literally is at stake here so I pray the outcome is short and painless and the people of this country comes on top again.
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      03-03-2009, 06:33 AM   #38
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Ok, I took it the wrong way.

I totally agree with your assessment right there. Just remember you said there's two choices. I choose to be a free market solution, you on the other hand want assistance from government. Either way, our life literally is at stake here so I pray the outcome is short and painless and the people of this country comes on top again.
amen
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      03-03-2009, 08:19 AM   #39
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The U.S. goverment employs over 500,000 military personel.(half a million)
They spend over $2 trillion a year on the military.
That is more than the rest of the world combined.
Congress will add a couple of trillion to the national debt this year.(probably 2 1/2)
I can't be the only one who finds this unreasonable.
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      03-03-2009, 11:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by johnnymu View Post

I totally agree with your assessment right there. Just remember you said there's two choices. I choose to be a free market solution, you on the other hand want assistance from government. Either way, our life literally is at stake here so I pray the outcome is short and painless and the people of this country comes on top again.
What "free market solution"?

Seriously?

I still haven't seen ANY plan that didn't involve Corporations going hat in hand in front of Federal Gov't representatives, and begging for them to use the power of the Federal Gov't to step in and fix their messes for them. Every single solution depends upon the Federal Gov't stepping in the middle of private contracts.

That's what you call a "free market solution"? Hiding behind the skirts of the Federal Government?
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      03-03-2009, 01:31 PM   #41
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What "free market solution"?

Seriously?

I still haven't seen ANY plan that didn't involve Corporations going hat in hand in front of Federal Gov't representatives, and begging for them to use the power of the Federal Gov't to step in and fix their messes for them. Every single solution depends upon the Federal Gov't stepping in the middle of private contracts.

That's what you call a "free market solution"? Hiding behind the skirts of the Federal Government?
If you don't know what it means you can just ask, instead of making nonsense reply. Basically free market means if I start a business and it faultars I don't ask the government to bail me out instead I can sell the company privately. Simple as that. Hey I believe in this philosophy you don't have to.
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      03-03-2009, 02:00 PM   #42
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If you don't know what it means you can just ask, instead of making nonsense reply. Basically free market means if I start a business and it faultars I don't ask the government to bail me out instead I can sell the company privately. Simple as that. Hey I believe in this philosophy you don't have to.

Oh, I know what free market means. I just don't think YOU know what it means.

What is the free market solution to the current crisis?

Can you provide an example of your "free market" solution being applied in the last 9 months?

Can you answer a direct question?
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      03-03-2009, 02:09 PM   #43
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Actually, I think everyone in this country should be entitled to Health Care. Gov't should have stepped in and nationalized medicine a long ass time ago. Health care costs are absolutely out of control.
Sure, that would be fantastic! Government health care works EXCEPTIONALLY well! Just ask my dad, his only insurance coverage is through the VA (Department of Veterans Affairs.) He injured his back in the Navy way back in '68, and has given him problems ever since. Last October he slipped a disk in his back again, for the third time. It is very painful, and basically he can't work right now because of it. Can't lift things, can't sit in a chair at a desk for very long, etc.

So he has government-run health care. Do you know when his surgery was scheduled to have his back repaired? IT HASN'T YET! That's right, it's been over 5 months since his back went out and he still doesn't have a date yet for surgery. He's on pain killers, but he fears that permanent nerve damage may happen. And since he hasn't been able to work, he doesn't have much else to do than contact the VA at least twice a week for updates. And even with that, he's fallen through the cracks a few times.

So if that is what I can look forward to in terms of government run health care, NO THANK YOU! And this is a perfect example, because it isn't a hypothetical, it is an actual situtation. The government's deeds speak far louder than their words. According to the VA's website, they had about 5.5 million people use their health care services in 2008. So the government can't even provide quality, timely health care to 5.5 million vets, how the hell are they going to provide services for over 300 million? Short answer, they can't.
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      03-03-2009, 02:09 PM   #44
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Oh, I know what free market means. I just don't think YOU know what it means.

What is the free market solution to the current crisis?

Can you provide an example of your "free market" solution being applied in the last 9 months?

Can you answer a direct question?
Solution would be again allow private parties to bailout the fallen car companies, banks, insurance, health care. Allow the people to bring this country back to being prosperous and less government involvement.

Sure, I can give you my personal experience as example. I bought out a company that was on verge of bankrupt now after three years it's a multimillion dollar company. No bailout, no borrowing of money nada
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