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      07-15-2009, 03:20 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Lag is back worse than before. Today I had a full two second delay while making a left turn at about 20 mph. Latest revision of software installed a few weeks ago. ISTA/P version 34.0.0.5A.

BMW NA,
You are going to get my lemon if this isn't fixed PDQ.
Yer kidding!!! Damn that sux!! Hasnt happend to me yet after the newest software re-programming but we'll see
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      07-15-2009, 04:53 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Lag is back worse than before. Today I had a full two second delay while making a left turn at about 20 mph. Latest revision of software installed a few weeks ago. ISTA/P version 34.0.0.5A.

BMW NA,
You are going to get my lemon if this isn't fixed PDQ.

Oh no...sorry to hear man. Worse than before?!! I hope this was an isolated incident and they get if fixed. I don't see why the software would start to act up after initially working well. If BMW screwed up again, I'm going to be so pissed off.
Mine is in the shop right now getting the update.
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      07-15-2009, 04:56 PM   #575
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Update from the UK. Today I met the BMW Regional Technical Manager at my dealer. Without driving my car (which was updated to 32 last October), he said:

"I am aware of this problem and have experienced it. The latest software makes it better, but does not get rid of it. We will update your car now if you want (to the dealer, you will have to do it as a PUMA case). But the next version of software, ISTA P 35.0, will be with us at the end of August and with dealers during September."

We agreed that I would wait for 35.0 in September.

There was no need to argue about whether there was a lag problem, or to pretend there was any other problem.

By the way, I was there to discuss a paint issue with my son's One Coupe. The BMW man immediately accepted there was a manufacturing defect and was generally very helpful.

My view - BMW Customer Service is good, the DCT transmission is fantastic, in spite of one annoying characteristic which they are trying to correct.
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      07-15-2009, 05:03 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waremark View Post
Update from the UK. Today I met the BMW Regional Technical Manager at my dealer. Without driving my car (which was updated to 32 last October), he said:

"I am aware of this problem and have experienced it. The latest software makes it better, but does not get rid of it. We will update your car now if you want (to the dealer, you will have to do it as a PUMA case). But the next version of software, ISTA P 35.0, will be with us at the end of August and with dealers during September."

We agreed that I would wait for 35.0 in September.

There was no need to argue about whether there was a lag problem, or to pretend there was any other problem.

By the way, I was there to discuss a paint issue with my son's One Coupe. The BMW man immediately accepted there was a manufacturing defect and was generally very helpful.

My view - BMW Customer Service is good, the DCT transmission is fantastic, in spite of one annoying characteristic which they are trying to correct.
I thought the DCT saga was over....but it continues. Fed up with BMW and having to take my car in for updates They should wait to release any updates until they have the software perfected as much as possible. Maybe the next M3 will be out by the time they have figured out this fkn lag issue. Still waiting for my car back with the most recent update.........
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      07-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #577
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Thanks for posting that Waremark. I may very well just wait for 35 as well. Though the US release will probably trail the EU release a bit.
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      07-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #578
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Just to clarify for those not familiar with my situation. I have a Sept. '08 build, '09 e90. It had terrible lag from the first week. Really bad. In March I received a software update, but don't know the number. It was a significant improvement. The lag didn't go away, but became much less obnoxious. Over the next few months the lag came back, but never as bad as original.
Two weeks ago I got ISTA/P version 34.0.0.5A. I drove it for a few days, then the car sat in the Philly airport for 9 days. As of yesterday, the lag is back much worse than the intermediate reprogramming, but not quite as bad as original. This was not an isolated incident as it is happening often now.
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      07-15-2009, 08:03 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waremark View Post
Update from the UK. Today I met the BMW Regional Technical Manager at my dealer. Without driving my car (which was updated to 32 last October), he said:

"I am aware of this problem and have experienced it. The latest software makes it better, but does not get rid of it. We will update your car now if you want (to the dealer, you will have to do it as a PUMA case). But the next version of software, ISTA P 35.0, will be with us at the end of August and with dealers during September."

We agreed that I would wait for 35.0 in September.

There was no need to argue about whether there was a lag problem, or to pretend there was any other problem.

By the way, I was there to discuss a paint issue with my son's One Coupe. The BMW man immediately accepted there was a manufacturing defect and was generally very helpful.

My view - BMW Customer Service is good, the DCT transmission is fantastic, in spite of one annoying characteristic which they are trying to correct.
Thanks for posting
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      07-15-2009, 08:21 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Just to clarify for those not familiar with my situation. I have a Sept. '08 build, '09 e90. It had terrible lag from the first week. Really bad. In March I received a software update, but don't know the number. It was a significant improvement. The lag didn't go away, but became much less obnoxious. Over the next few months the lag came back, but never as bad as original.
Two weeks ago I got ISTA/P version 34.0.0.5A. I drove it for a few days, then the car sat in the Philly airport for 9 days. As of yesterday, the lag is back much worse than the intermediate reprogramming, but not quite as bad as original. This was not an isolated incident as it is happening often now.
Thanks for the clarification. My update was delayed as on post test drive there was some kind of "ABS error." Hopefully it will be ready tomorrow.
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      07-15-2009, 08:34 PM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Just to clarify for those not familiar with my situation. I have a Sept. '08 build, '09 e90. It had terrible lag from the first week. Really bad. In March I received a software update, but don't know the number. It was a significant improvement. The lag didn't go away, but became much less obnoxious. Over the next few months the lag came back, but never as bad as original.
Two weeks ago I got ISTA/P version 34.0.0.5A. I drove it for a few days, then the car sat in the Philly airport for 9 days. As of yesterday, the lag is back much worse than the intermediate reprogramming, but not quite as bad as original. This was not an isolated incident as it is happening often now.
I trust this is not the "hose" issue that as far as I am aware definitely gives engine fault codes. I guess I would advise you to advise your SA to at least investigate this possibility.
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      07-16-2009, 11:03 AM   #582
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Alright...the car is back with the newest update. They also changed the diff fluid as I complained about the sporadic groaning sound when turning in the past. The system prompted them on the update necessary. From my brief drive, the lag is definitely still present, but does seem to be significantly reduced as reflected in other posts. I believe the car is downshifting faster, especially into first....thus helping with the downshift lag. We'll see how much it's really improved after further driving. They said they think it was ISTA 34.0.0.5...but were unable to pull it up. In any case, the SA said it was the latest as the system is updated real time with anything new.
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      07-17-2009, 12:04 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waremark View Post
Update from the UK. Today I met the BMW Regional Technical Manager at my dealer. Without driving my car (which was updated to 32 last October), he said:

"I am aware of this problem and have experienced it. The latest software makes it better, but does not get rid of it. We will update your car now if you want (to the dealer, you will have to do it as a PUMA case). But the next version of software, ISTA P 35.0, will be with us at the end of August and with dealers during September."

We agreed that I would wait for 35.0 in September.

There was no need to argue about whether there was a lag problem, or to pretend there was any other problem.

By the way, I was there to discuss a paint issue with my son's One Coupe. The BMW man immediately accepted there was a manufacturing defect and was generally very helpful.

My view - BMW Customer Service is good, the DCT transmission is fantastic, in spite of one annoying characteristic which they are trying to correct.
Yes, that does sound promising, but its also a disgrace. After all, some folks received their DCT cars in April of 2008. I was one of them, and started this thread in the first place. BMW are talking about a maybe fix in September of 2009 ??? BMW needs to step it up and offer owners financial compensation, along with finally fixing this issue once and for all.
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      07-17-2009, 02:25 AM   #584
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post
Yes, that does sound promising, but its also a disgrace. After all, some folks received their DCT cars in April of 2008. I was one of them, and started this thread in the first place. BMW are talking about a maybe fix in September of 2009 ??? BMW needs to step it up and offer owners financial compensation, along with finally fixing this issue once and for all.
I am of the very same opinion. Other brands can and do get this right first time but BMW failure to fix the problem has left me with the opinion that either there is much more wrong with the whole setup than just a software glitch or it's not high up on their 'things to do' list. Either one is a sobering thought.
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      07-17-2009, 03:05 AM   #585
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Or maybe changes to the DCT software may require extensive and intensive testing with 10s of thousand of miles in testing in case the changes produce some other unintended and undesired side effect?
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      07-17-2009, 03:21 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Or maybe changes to the DCT software may require extensive and intensive testing with 10s of thousand of miles in testing in case the changes produce some other unintended and undesired side effect?
Why should that stop them?

After all they already released the DCT for sale with dangerous faults even after such testing that must of entailed tens of thousands of miles.

See my point.
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      07-17-2009, 04:01 AM   #587
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FWIW i had my update done yesterday but was 2.33.3.0.1 and not 2.34.005 as expected. Collect car later so dont know if lag has gone yet.
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      07-17-2009, 06:27 AM   #588
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Quote:
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Why should that stop them?

After all they already released the DCT for sale with dangerous faults even after such testing that must of entailed tens of thousands of miles.

See my point.
Not really...you agree with a post that seems to state that BMW are being slow to fix this problem as if they don't care or its a low priority. My point is simply that expecting a quick fix is unrealistic as each new software version has to undergo a lengthy test protocol.
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      07-17-2009, 06:58 AM   #589
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I have heard that the Z4 DCT doesn't have this problem at all (maybe too soon to tell?). But I have also heard that it isn't worth getting--just not as crisp as the M3's. Has anyone else heard that? If that's true, I hope the "fix" isn't using whatever the use in the Z4....
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      07-17-2009, 07:24 AM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Not really...you agree with a post that seems to state that BMW are being slow to fix this problem as if they don't care or its a low priority. My point is simply that expecting a quick fix is unrealistic as each new software version has to undergo a lengthy test protocol.
Sorry but the only thing that will please fellow DCT owners is a fix that cures all the issues.

If you look at the amount of different issues that have been present at it's launch and since then you have to come to the conclusion that BMW took their eye off the ball. As I continue to say, I believe there has been more wrong with this than just a software glitch and with each upgrade there is sometimes different problems that arise though not always. This basic transmission is installed in the Ferrari California and it suffers none of these problems, so I can only conclude that this is solely a BMW problem and not the gearbox or it's supplier's fault.

If your suggestion that these things undergo a lengthy test protocol then how come BMW's tester didn't notice these problems before it's release and sell to the customers?

My guess is that they did but chose to release it anyway so they would be first with a high revving DCT, and we are all left to suffer because of this.
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      07-17-2009, 07:40 AM   #591
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Quote:
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If your suggestion that these things undergo a lengthy test protocol then how come BMW's tester didn't notice these problems before it's release and sell to the customers?
Fair point...I can only guess that all the parameters that were set for the DCT were met in the pre-production test cars. Its entirely possible (and indeed likely) that none of the test cars suffered from stalling under heavy braking and when the first reports of this happening were received, BMW for safety reasons were forced into a hasty software update to ensure the clutch was disengaged earlier (at higher revs) than previously and this precipitated the current "lag problem". I would be very suprised if BMW and Getrag have not invested considerable time and money in resolving the current issues but as I said its not a matter of a quick debug and a drive around the block to see if it fixed everything, BMW can hardly risk another hasty update that may cause other unforseen problems.
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      07-17-2009, 07:57 AM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperspaced View Post
I have heard that the Z4 DCT doesn't have this problem at all (maybe too soon to tell?). But I have also heard that it isn't worth getting--just not as crisp as the M3's. Has anyone else heard that? If that's true, I hope the "fix" isn't using whatever the use in the Z4....
Z4 does not have the Drivelogic like the M3 does. It just has D and S, and then has a Sport button with two modes IIRC (Sport and Sport+, I think) which adjusts the suspension, steering and transmission in tandem.

The software in the Z4 is therefore simpler (well, in theory) and cannot be used in the M3 directly. However, the E92 335i DCT has a setup similar to the Z4 (perhaps no Sport button) and yet it still lags, or so we have been told by owners.
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      07-17-2009, 09:24 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Fair point...I can only guess that all the parameters that were set for the DCT were met in the pre-production test cars. Its entirely possible (and indeed likely) that none of the test cars suffered from stalling under heavy braking and when the first reports of this happening were received, BMW for safety reasons were forced into a hasty software update to ensure the clutch was disengaged earlier (at higher revs) than previously and this precipitated the current "lag problem".
I'm not entirely sure that such issues that arised within days of owners taking delivery of theirs were not present during testing. Considering how much testing each brand does it sounds unbelieveable that it didn't occur more than once. I know I can reproduce my lag on demand every single time, so they need to replace their test drivers with guys like us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
I would be very suprised if BMW and Getrag have not invested considerable time and money in resolving the current issues but as I said its not a matter of a quick debug and a drive around the block to see if it fixed everything, BMW can hardly risk another hasty update that may cause other unforseen problems.
Almost all updates have resulted in another problem popping up either in it's place or as well as the existing one still being there. You need to read all the posts relating to DCT to see just how many problems have come and gone during all of the updates of which there has been numerous.

You need to compare the M-DCT to the likes of the PDK from Porsche and DSG 7speed from Audi to see just how good the M-DCT could and should be.
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      07-17-2009, 09:48 AM   #594
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Mine is a 09MY car and to be honest I don't have a problem with lag in my default driving style.
Reading the forums led me to believe that the first batch of DCT cars did not have a lag issue but a few instances of stalling after heavy braking precipitated the first update which introduced the lag. Is this not correct?
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