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      02-09-2009, 11:07 AM   #23
MMMorish
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Doesn't look like this one is gonna end pretty.
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      02-09-2009, 01:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
haha only 2hp if you're going at least 90mph? waste of money.
Coming from somebody who spent over 3k on eisenmann exhaust that probably added 5rwhp at most.
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      02-09-2009, 02:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Coming from somebody who spent over 3k on eisenmann exhaust that probably added 5rwhp at most.
People do exhaust for the sound, not the HP.
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      02-09-2009, 02:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Coming from somebody who spent over 3k on eisenmann exhaust that probably added 5rwhp at most.
It was strictly for sound not HP gain. So yep, coming from someone who spent under $3k on an Eisenmann. I probably got no HP increase from it.
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      02-09-2009, 04:52 PM   #27
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Doesn't look like this one is gonna end pretty.
Ha...my thoughts exactly
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      02-09-2009, 04:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Coming from somebody who spent over 3k on eisenmann exhaust that probably added 5rwhp at most.
He's one of those people who thinks if you can gain power BMW would have already done it. He doesn't know jack about modding M cars, don't worry about it.
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      02-09-2009, 05:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
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He's one of those people who thinks if you can gain power BMW would have already done it. He doesn't know jack about modding M cars, don't worry about it.
Again Sticky? You just love to argue huh? I'm willing to bet I know a lot more than you think, you have no idea my qualifications for speaking on the subject. Just cause I laugh at spending money for 2hp on a 414hp car only after exceeding 90mph doesn't mean I don't know about modding. Nor do I believe that BMW will do every mod possible at the factory.
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      02-09-2009, 05:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Again Sticky? You just love to argue huh? I'm willing to bet I know a lot more than you think, you have no idea my qualifications for speaking on the subject. Just cause I laugh at spending money for 2hp on a 414hp car only after exceeding 90mph doesn't mean I don't know about modding. Nor do I believe that BMW will do every mod possible at the factory.
You never truly know anyone. However, I have a pretty good idea of your knowledge of modern BMW tuning from your posts.

You will use this dyno as justification for a 2 hp gain when you have another dyno showing more. Instead of paying attention to the HP gain when a fan can't replicate real world air flow, what you should be paying attention to is that the principle behind the mod is sound.
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      02-09-2009, 05:47 PM   #31
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      02-09-2009, 06:57 PM   #32
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! Retarded thread number 5345873468340634863406 commencing.
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      02-09-2009, 08:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Coming from somebody who spent over 3k on eisenmann exhaust that probably added 5rwhp at most.
You will find the Eisenmann adds >5rwhp. Plus the sound is something to die for.
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      02-09-2009, 08:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
You never truly know anyone. However, I have a pretty good idea of your knowledge of modern BMW tuning from your posts.

You will use this dyno as justification for a 2 hp gain when you have another dyno showing more. Instead of paying attention to the HP gain when a fan can't replicate real world air flow, what you should be paying attention to is that the principle behind the mod is sound.
How come every time you post it turns into an argument with someone else on the forum?
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      02-09-2009, 08:49 PM   #35
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VIDEO and GRAPH posted: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4447601
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      02-09-2009, 09:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
How come every time you post it turns into an argument with someone else on the forum?
I don't know man. I think you started this one.


Especially with your amature hour comment below. You're laughing at members on here, real mature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
haha only 2hp if you're going at least 90mph? waste of money.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with people paying $180 for a filter and scoops. Yes little gains, but it doesn't hurt.

Let people do what they want, without the teenager comments.
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      02-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
How come every time you post it turns into an argument with someone else on the forum?
Becasue Sticky has a way with words that's not out-right insulting, but definitely has a rude tone to it. Though coming out and saying someone "does not know jack about modding..." could be taken as insulting if they did know something about modding.
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      02-09-2009, 09:37 PM   #38
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I'm gonna sit back and watch this one unfold, should be fun!

Just try not to get banned this time Sticky. I'd miss your entertaining comments and commentaries on things.
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      02-10-2009, 12:46 AM   #39
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Sorry for sounding like a newbie, but do dynos have a margin for error?

2whp doesn't sound like any gains at all unless dynos are that exact.
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      02-10-2009, 12:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Sorry for sounding like a newbie, but do dynos have a margin for error?

2whp doesn't sound like any gains at all unless dynos are that exact.
You have a different dyno showing greater gains, the point is they both show gains even though they are different dyno's in different places on different cars.

This is a perplexing mod for many people for many reasons. Unlike an exhaust or tune this will not show gains at all speeds throughout the range. There is a specific window in which it shows its usefulness. Think of it as if a fan with the scoops shows increased power due to air flow, what will the increase be at 75 mph on the highway?
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      02-10-2009, 12:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
I don't know man. I think you started this one.


Especially with your amature hour comment below. You're laughing at members on here, real mature.



Honestly, I don't see a problem with people paying $180 for a filter and scoops. Yes little gains, but it doesn't hurt.

Let people do what they want, without the teenager comments.
I don't think I even need to say anything, this is right on, but I will

My feeling is the gain is definitely greater than 2 wheel at speed, but even if the gain WAS 2 wheel, it still is superb for the dollar per horsepower.

Additionally, the person who is hating on the scoops for obvious reasons, isn't taking into account that the from what the OP said the first run was without the scoops, and the second with. If these were back to back, there were still gains even without a full cooldown.
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      02-10-2009, 03:21 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
This is a perplexing mod for many people for many reasons. Unlike an exhaust or tune this will not show gains at all speeds throughout the range. There is a specific window in which it shows its usefulness. Think of it as if a fan with the scoops shows increased power due to air flow, what will the increase be at 75 mph on the highway?
There is a specific range it shows its gains in an totally non real world/unrealistic dyno test with a fixed speed and unrealistic flow pattern "wind" generated by a fan? Just to make sure I understand you... In other words either your conclusion above is based on a dyno or it is speculation that a real world test will behave identically to a completely non real world test.

Again no one has measured the VE of this mod in any sort of real world fashion. Furthermore, no one has anything but butt dyno experience for it in the real world.

If we can get VE at least we should have someone stepping up with multiple instrumented apples to apples runs with and without the scoops? I thought that was planned/promised by both owners and vendors?

Round and round we'll go I guess....
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      02-10-2009, 03:29 AM   #43
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There is a specific range it shows its gains in an totally non real world/unrealistic dyno test with a fixed speed and unrealistic flow pattern "wind" generated by a fan? Just to make sure I understand you... In other words either your conclusion above is based on a dyno or it is speculation that a real world test will behave identically to a completely non real world test.

Again no one has measured the VE of this mod in any sort of real world fashion. Furthermore, no one has anything but butt dyno experience for it in the real world.

If we can get VE at least we should have someone stepping up with multiple instrumented apples to apples runs with and without the scoops? I thought that was planned/promised by both owners and vendors?

Round and round we'll go I guess....
Well, get a datalogger of some sort and get real world numbers and share them.

My real world issue stems from that the fan is shoving air in from the moment the dyno starts. It is simulating air flow a car in the real world won't see until higher speeds much earlier thereby inflating the low end numbers a bit. The specific window comment is that it really generates a difference you can feel at highway speeds. That is not to say there are not gains from airflow down low, just not as much as up high.
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      02-10-2009, 01:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Well, get a datalogger of some sort and get real world numbers and share them.
1. In my opinion this is the responsibility of the vendor and or the users of the product. As we all know it has been skirted.
2. Although it would be a very fun/interesting/useful exercise, I simply don't have enough interest in this.
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