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      02-02-2009, 04:37 AM   #45
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      02-02-2009, 08:16 AM   #46
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      02-02-2009, 01:20 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
here is the dyno from my best run....and the second graph shows my best run from last week (pre-AA software upgrade)
This dyno graph show them run in 3rd gear. This would multiply torque since you are not running in top gear or closest to 1:1 ratio. All cars that I have seen run are in at least 5th gear for the most accurate reading.
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      02-02-2009, 01:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 550Chris View Post
This dyno graph show them run in 3rd gear. This would multiply torque since you are not running in top gear or closest to 1:1 ratio. All cars that I have seen run are in at least 5th gear for the most accurate reading.
I took this quote from PG's post in my previous thread.
To explain why we use 3rd gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
The gear ratios are used as a torque divisor. Even a 1:1 ratio has a divisor because it's still going through the final drive ratio. The 6.084 ratio in the dyno chart is 3rd gear * final drive ratio. Fourth gear has a lower mechanical efficiency and reads lower. Fifth has even lower mechanical efficiency, and can't be used anyways because you'll run into the speed limiter of the ECU.
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      02-02-2009, 02:22 PM   #49
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Thanks PG. You're a gem.

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      02-02-2009, 02:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Let me see if I can destroy this myth without starting a flame war. This myth probably wouldn't even exist if more people understood how the power is transmitted from the motor to the wheels. I think this myth continues to propogate -- mostly -- because it sounds like it makes sense on the surface and most people don't understand how power is transmitted. So they blindly accept it, and the myth continues to propogate. So let's see if I can dispell it -- at least for the 20 people who may read this message.

Regardless of torque and RPM, that power exists and the flywheel and causes the primary shaft of the transmission to spin. The gear on the primary shaft has some number of teeth on it, and meshes with another gear on the secondary shaft that has a different number of teeth on it. This is how you get a gear ratio: 87 teeth on the primary divided by 55 teeth on the secondary equals a 1.58:1 gear ratio (87/55=1.58). Obviously a 1:1 gear ratio has the same exact number of teeth on the primary and secondary shafts.

The drive shaft is connected to the secondary shaft of the transmission. But before getting to the wheels, there is one more conversion to take place: the final drive ratio. The secondary shaft/drive shaft spins a primary gear in the final drive, which in turn causes a secondary gear to spin as well. Once again, divide the number of teeth on the primary shaft with the number of teeth on the secondary shaft, and you get the final drive ratio. In the case of the M3, there are 100 teeth on the primary, and 26 teeth on the secondary giving a 3.8562:1 final drive ratio (100/26=3.8462).

Since both of these gears reduce the motor RPM to wheel/hub RPM, they BOTH act as torque multiplier. It's important to understand that BOTH gears act as torque multipliers: the transmission gear ratio AND final drive ratio act as torque multipliers -- not just the transmission gear ratio. It's easy to calculate the combined torque multiplier, as it's simply the gear-ratio x final-drive-ratio. In this case, 1.58 x 3.8462 = 6.084.

To compensate for the torque multiplier, you simply divide the measured results by the torque multiplier to obtain the actual results. In the case of a 3rd gear run on the M3, divide the measured results by 6.084 to obtain the actual results. If you look at the dyno chart, you will see they did exactly that. You will see '6.084' in the bottom right corner of the dyno chart. That was the torque DIVISOR from the measured results. If it weren't there, you'd be seeing over 2400 horsepower from this motor.

The myth:
Regardless of which dyno you use, you are always getting a torque multiplier because whichever gear you choose is always being run through and multiplied by the final drive ratio. The myth states that you need to run as close to 1:1 as possible -- completely ignoring that a final drive ratio even exists. Well the bad news for people who don't think for themselves: a final drive ratio does exist, and always acts as a torque multiplier itself. Eliminating the torque multiplying effects is as simple as dividing the measured results by this value.

So at least for the 20 people reading this thread, I hope you'll now understand how this works...and why it doesn't matter.

Oh, and for those of you still tempted to say that you need to run in 5th gear (1:1), think again. Your speed limiter would kick in before your dyno run is over...and completely invalidate your results.

Thanks PG for your input!

However, for those like you and myself who have done the AA software. the speed limiter would not kick in because we dont have
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      02-02-2009, 02:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
Thanks PG for your input!

However, for those like you and myself who have done the AA software. the speed limiter would not kick in because we dont have
What good is it to remove the speed limiter if you'll never get up to those kind of speeds? At least here in Toronto! Bragging rights I guess
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      02-02-2009, 02:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
What good is it to remove the speed limiter if you'll never get up to those kind of speeds? At least here in Toronto! Bragging rights I guess
You must have misread my post.

ON the streets...no good at all!
Not even on the track...Its just part of the Software upgrade from AA.
AND the only reason I brought it up is because PG said that in 5th gear we would run into the speed limiter on a dyno, which would NOT happen once you have the software upgrade because there is no speed limiter. (well there is, but its set to some ridiculous amount like 260mph)
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      02-02-2009, 03:03 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Oh, and for those of you still tempted to say that you need to run in 5th gear (1:1), think again. Your speed limiter would kick in before your dyno run is over...and completely invalidate your results.

Pencilegeek ... YOU are the MAN when it comes to knowing your stuff.

In Slammed's case... since he reporgrammed his CPU he could effectively use 5th but then would his results be good comparisons of before and after gains if he didnt use the exact same method (gear) as he did previously? Im guessing Slammed did it right in still using the same gear and not 5th . correct?
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      02-02-2009, 03:05 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
What good is it to remove the speed limiter if you'll never get up to those kind of speeds? At least here in Toronto! Bragging rights I guess
In case you ever want to be the next OJ simpson and REALLY outrun those cops with the overhead cameras taping you from helicopters ! lol
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      02-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
What good is it to remove the speed limiter if you'll never get up to those kind of speeds? ...
Tracks, like Texas World and a few others. Also, some of us drive in the South West US where such speeds are quite doable. (I once got airborne jumping a cattle guard at 160+ mph in an M5, down near Fort Davis, Texas).

Dave
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      02-02-2009, 05:25 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
I once got airborne jumping a cattle guard at 160+ mph in an M5, down near Fort Davis, Texas

Dave
Yippy ki aye!!!
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      02-02-2009, 05:35 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
Yippy ki aye!!!
That's so '50s. (Mqybe it's Canadian, I don't know for sure).

We now say "Yee hah", just be careful if your actually behind a draft horse, otherwise you could confuse him/her because "yee" sounds a lot like "gee".

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      02-02-2009, 11:00 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
here is the dyno from my best run....and the second graph shows my best run from last week (pre-AA software upgrade)
Congratulations. Nice gains.

Did you get the 91 or the 93 octane tune?

Also, who would you recommend in the Toronto area for installation of bolts ons like exhaust, SSK or pulley?
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      02-02-2009, 11:04 PM   #59
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Nice run
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      02-02-2009, 11:16 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sge92 View Post
Congratulations. Nice gains.

Did you get the 91 or the 93 octane tune?

Also, who would you recommend in the Toronto area for installation of bolts ons like exhaust, SSK or pulley?


PM me for the shop I use...
Its 93 octane. but i can use 91
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      02-03-2009, 01:52 AM   #61
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Awesome numbers. I cant wait to get mine. They are local to me.
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      02-03-2009, 12:39 PM   #62
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lol Thanks for the tip. It's not Canadian, its a quote from Detective John McClane from the Die Hard movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
That's so '50s. (Mqybe it's Canadian, I don't know for sure).

We now say "Yee hah", just be careful if your actually behind a draft horse, otherwise you could confuse him/her because "yee" sounds a lot like "gee".

Dave
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      02-03-2009, 05:13 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
This is the right math, given the 18% is the "loss."

Seems like a lot from just a pulley, exhaust and chip.
I'm waiting on the Dinan chip to add to throttle bodies and AA exhaust.

Dave
My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing that dyno runs high. I highly doubt a pulley, muffler, and chip will yield 40-50whp as most e9x M3's run around 340whp.
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      02-03-2009, 05:21 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiM3 View Post
My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing that dyno runs high. I highly doubt a pulley, muffler, and chip will yield 40-50whp as most e9x M3's run around 340whp.
What can I say, I broke my car in good

Dynapack are the most reliable dynos!
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      02-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #65
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Congrats on the numbers...
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      02-04-2009, 12:42 AM   #66
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If anyone in Toronto or local areas is interested in doing the AA ECU Upgrade locally (without having to send your ECU to Miami). PM me
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