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      05-30-2011, 11:31 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
I think I'm with you on this one. My car has done this to me on a few occasions, always when shifting very hard and fast at redline on the 1-2 shift. I am 100% sure the clutch pedal is all the way in when this happens. I think I am just trying to force the trans into gear before it wants to. The only times it has done this is when I am launching from a dead stop with some tire-spin present.

I had my old G-tech hooked up the other day and was messing around with 0-60 testing. During my testing, I launched the car at too high RPM a few times which resulted in severe tire spin rather than a good launch. This is when the grind problem really showed up. If I tried to shift into 2nd quickly at redline (and very low vehicle speed due to wheel-spin), I could not get it into gear. This happened 2 times, I believe. If the car hooks up well and is not spinning the tires when shifting gears, I seem to have no grind problem at all. I can shift quickly without issue, although there does always seem to be a bit of a delay engaging 2nd gear, much like any other manual car I have owned. 1-2 shifts are always the hardest to nail fast.

Oh, and I am a BMW Master technician in California. I can tell you that I will not be ripping out my transmission for this problem, unless it gets a lot worse. Judging by the number of us that have experienced this problem, I'd have to say it is an engineering flaw (or just the way they are). I think I am just trying to make the transmission do something it does not want to do.

For those of you that want BMW to replace parts to fix this problem; I would suggest taking the service manager or shop foreman for a drive to show it to them. This is the only way you will get anything done. It will be unlikely that the tech will be able to duplicate the problem, and I doubt you want them beating on your car to verify it.

If anybody in the area wants me to look at this problem for them, I can try to get the ball rolling. If I can get the problem to happen then it is likely that we can get some parts replaced to make you happy. Send me a PM if you'd like.

Andy
Do you think the slipping load, due to tire spin, prevents things from syncing up in the gear box? Not enough load? Just curious.
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      05-31-2011, 11:45 PM   #266
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I've had the grind on high rpm 1 - 2 shift happen a few times during the first roughly 12000 miles. It happened occasionally on my previous e46 M3 as well.

Right now the car has about 30000 miles on it and it has been a long time since it has happened. Last week I did a few hard 1 - 2 shifts to see if it would happen again and I couldn't replicate it.

It may just be that I got lucky, but it does seem like in general the car shifts smoother now than it did when new. I've never had any issues with grinding in any other shifts or at lower rpm/load.

Does anyone elses car seem to shift smoother now after 25000+ miles than it did when new?
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      11-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #267
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Ever since I finished the break in period I have had this issue with my 08 M3. Happens about 1 out of every 3-4 times. At first I thought I was doing something wrong so I went through a variety of techniques trying to find the "magic formula" that would make the issue go away. Never could find one.

I brought this up with my SA a couple of years ago and they said that the transmission was OK. But they didn't test it under full throttle at red line. At the time I sort of let it go since I rarely do 0-60 runs.

Since I'm approaching the end of my warranty period (next April) and the car is soon to go into limited hibernation for the winter I thought I would see if the general break in of the car had improved it. Nope, even at 21,000 miles it was still there and bugged the heck out of me.

So I sent a link to this thread to my SA and made sure that they knew I wasn't talking about normal driving 1-2 shifts, but high rpm shifts. They had me bring the car in and take the shop foreman for a drive so that I could demonstrate it to him. And of course I promptly ripped off 8+ flawless runs (I have found that if it shifts well the first time it will continue well for subsequent runs and if it won't go the first time it most likely will continue to fail).

At the least I got confirmation from the shop foreman that my technique for shifting was not the issue. He thought I was doing everything in that regards OK.

As luck (?) would have it I had a sensor go bad the next week so I had to take the car back in for that. When I dropped it off I told them that the evening after I demoed the car I had the shift failure happen again. I told them to just keep the car for a few days and for either my SA or the shop foreman to drive it home, on errands, whatever, for a few days and to do 0-60 runs every time they drive it. (Yes, that makes me a little edgy but at this point I wanted this fixed).

And lo and behold it happened to the shop foreman. At that point they knew the problem was legit and that it wasn't from my doing a bad shift. They called the engineers in Germany. The engineers said they had never heard of this as an issue with early 08 cars but as a "courtesy" they would replace my transmission. Supposedly I make only the second transmission replacement in the USA.

Unfortunately since I've gotten the car back I haven't had as many chances to drive it as I would like (the weather has turned rotten) but I have tried about 10-12 0-60 runs on different days and so far it has performed flawlessly. This is finally the car I thought I was buying 3.5 years ago! (And, yes I was told that the initial break in period of the car is for the engine and that the new tranny was good to go).

A side note for any other 08 M3 owners: I asked for them to replace the clutch while they were doing the transmission replacement. Only 21k miles on it but since they were going to have it all the way apart anyways and the clutch kit was only $470 I figured I might as well start with a new clutch too. When they got everything apart they found out that a new clutch kit won't work on our cars. They changed the flywheel somewhere along the way. So when you eventually need a new clutch you'll have to get a new flywheel too. They inspected my current clutch, said it looked good and put it back in.
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      11-23-2011, 04:01 PM   #268
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Curious to see if it happens again with your new transmission. It's funny that they claim to have never heard of 1-2 shift grinding issues, because as far I can tell, this problem exists to varying degrees in the E46 M3, Z4M, and E9x M3.


I can't speak to the M3 but when this happened in my Z4M it was also possible to trigger it if you shifted at low RPM. You felt the stick move into position but just did not engage correctly and made a very loud grinding noise that is worse than your typical beat-the-synchro grind.

Last edited by chris719; 11-23-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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      11-23-2011, 05:41 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Where do these old wives tales come from? Skipping gears has no impact on the transmission when done properly. I've got over 1-million miles of skipping gears with no ill effects. Around town I do 1-3 pretty often when I'm in no hurry. Going the other way I might jump from 6th to 3d if I really need to hot-foot it.

Any resistance going from first to second in a healthy transmission is due to mismatch of engine and tranny speed. For instance, if you gently accelerate to 5000 rpm in first and then shift to second, the engine speed will need to drop to around 3000. There'll be resistance if you try to push it in at 4000 or wait until 2000 rpm.

If you go up to 2000 rpm and do the shift and wait a full second, that might cause resistance, but shouldn't result in a grind.

Dave
Absolutely correct. In addition, if you can rev match nicely, you don't even need to clutch to shift. Not that I do it, but just one of the things my dad taught me about manuals. As well as double clutching, which I do do. Nothing like that double thump when you get used to it.
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      11-23-2011, 09:44 PM   #270
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I am very surprised, rather stunned, to hear that yours is only the second tranny replacement in the US. I've certainly read at least one other poster that had the tranny replaced after several complaints.

I join the other members that are very capable manual drivers that have issues with the M3. My E36 M3 was a manual and I've had manuals for over 30 years. My '64 VW Bug had a better shift. The 997 could be stiff going into 2nd when it is cold, but you never feel a grind of the gears. I admit that after 4000 miles, it has lessened. And I find that if you shift over 4k, the chance decreases. If I shift below that, I have an issue almost every time. Every other gear is fine, but 2nd is just a problem. Even as this gets better, this is a very disappointing issue.

Oh, personally, I've never done a shift at redline from 1st to 2nd. Given the way it shifts, I'm not eager to really hammer the syncros.
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      11-23-2011, 10:18 PM   #271
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One thing I do have to say is that after you drive the shit out of your car, the shifting gets so smooth. The harder you drive the car, the better the shifting gets. So do a burnout.
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      11-23-2011, 11:16 PM   #272
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Starting to let clutch out early after shifting to 2nd?

If it happens very rarely it could be user error.
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      11-23-2011, 11:51 PM   #273
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My transmission was replaced in my old 08 e92 at about 12000 miles for 1-2 shift grind, dealer replaced trans without any question.
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      11-24-2011, 06:45 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium Silver View Post
Starting to let clutch out early after shifting to 2nd?

If it happens very rarely it could be user error.
I'm pretty sure it happens before the clutch is let out at all.
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      11-24-2011, 07:57 PM   #275
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Believe it or not, no chance of user error. I've missed shifts, of course, but never had the gears grind in any car on a normal shift except this one. I keep coming back on this because it is such a bummer on such a nice car. It is interesting to comment on shifting technique, because you wouldn't even find such a thread on a forum on any other car that I know of (I guess there were comments about Corvette issues from someone).
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      11-24-2011, 08:07 PM   #276
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Grinding from 1st to 2nd at high RPM's is a very common problem with the current (e90, e92) m3's.

It happens most of the time for me as well whenever I shift rather quickly from 1st to 2nd.

There's a lot of threads on grinding. Its just very disappointing since it always happens on such a nice car like the m3.
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      11-24-2011, 08:37 PM   #277
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Put a SSK with DSSR! I cannot speak for everyone's problem's because they could be very different.

I used to have the same issue but after installing the SSK with DSSR it completely went away. The stock shifter can sometimes get dirt inside it and mess with its mechanics. Even when pulling away at a light and trying to put the shifter into 1st was difficult. I would have move the shifter in and out of neutral several times before it would actually go into 1st gear. This did not happen too many times but I do remember it happening.

Another issue that it could be is from trying to shift too fast before the clutch is engaged and damaging your sync's. After time, this issue will only get worse.
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      11-24-2011, 09:26 PM   #278
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Well, after plowing through all 13 pages of the thread, even here several people have had transmissions replaced. I noticed one thing from post 75, I believe. It referenced a Puma case number on the transmission replacement from his dealer. Need to Google what a Puma case is. From the limited number of people that have had replacements, all have had very positive results. At one point in the thread 10 people were willing to sign a letter to BMW, but I guess the interest waned. I'm likely to push for a replacement.
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      11-24-2011, 09:32 PM   #279
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Indeed, the definition:
Problem and Measures management Aftersales or in German: Problem und Mebnahmenmanagement Aftersales.
Seems that BMW specifically addressed the issue with tranny replacement. Hopefully a BMW tech on the board can look up the PuMA case and give feedback.
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      11-24-2011, 11:50 PM   #280
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I've had a chance since my post to do 3 more tests of the new tranny and it is performing brilliantly. With over 15 tests and no failures it is by far outperforming the original tranny. I've also noticed that it does that high rpm shift much smoother than the original tranny did even when it didn't grind.

With over 25 years experience driving manuals I am confident that the error was not my shifting technique. Plus when it did start happening to me I paid close attention to my technique. Never mattered.
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      11-25-2011, 07:19 PM   #281
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Mine shifted brilliantly today. Still wondering about that PUMA case file from post 75. Hoping a BMW tech can look it up.
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      11-25-2011, 08:31 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye m3 View Post
Mine shifted brilliantly today. Still wondering about that PUMA case file from post 75. Hoping a BMW tech can look it up.
Will this help at all ===>CLICK
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      11-25-2011, 08:34 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdao68 View Post
My transmission was replaced in my old 08 e92 at about 12000 miles for 1-2 shift grind, dealer replaced trans without any question.
Was there some type of BMW internal notification or did you need to take them on a test drive and grind the hell out of it though a series of 1-2 shifts to get the dealer to replace the tranny?
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