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      06-10-2006, 02:09 AM   #1
uhaulball
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330xi step in DS beaten by 05 TL

This was not even a start from red light, i made a right turn from a one-lane road to a 2 lane road with slight incline with my friend's 05 TL a-spec behind me. I'm steptronic in DS mode and i know hes a crazy guy and will try to pass me, so as soon as i make the turn i change to DS and floor the thing. He makes the turn and he is auto too. TL has their own "DS" mode type thing, and he floors it. His car is empty, just him and i have another friend in the passenger seat. he has 18" performance tires i have the 17" rft. But regardless... he didnt just slowly pull on me, as soon as i floored it i was ahead by 3 cars length, and then within seconds, he pulls way ahead of me on my right. I never knew TL was this fast... i expected him to pull, but not immediately.

Now im wondering, since ive known this for some time. Why is the 05 and earlier TL's rated at 270hp and 238 torque but the "new" 07 models with same body style rated at 258hp and slightly lower torque. Ive heard from my friend that the TL's handling suffered from the excess power so they lowered the hp. but then i heard from others that it was bs and they just put that on paper but the engine is the same.

Then i checked out my friend taht sat in the passenger seat. He owns an 05 Nissan Maxima SE and in the 05 and older models with the new body type, they are rated 265hp. but now the "new" 07 models with the same body type have 255hp ratings...

Whats with japanese cars lowering their HP? or is it just bs. Either way, the TL pulled on me so fast... I wanna rematch, with new wheels/tires and no passenger... Its funny too, how someone is saying they were head to head with a 350z in their 330xi... when i cant even take a TL. I find that incredibly hard to believe that my 330xi loses to a 270hp/248hp TL with a head start and another XI ties a 300+hp 350z. The TL is only 200 lb's lighter than the 330XI too and about the same weight as a 330i. I'm sure some people will turn this into a "driver's skill" arguement. For those people, "give me a break" This is a straight forward road that bends in minute degree. This was a race for the cars, not the driver.
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      06-10-2006, 03:44 AM   #2
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TLs are much faster than people think. I think that when people claim that they beat these Nissan like 350Zs and G35 coupes, they are just lying bc numbers dont lie and the 350Z is faster than a 330i. Also even car and driver said if the TL was RWD, it would be faster than the 330i. It did a 6.3 and the 330i did a 6.2 and the were both MT.
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      06-10-2006, 01:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethirtynine
It's actually rated at 258 bhp and 233 lbs-tq. I don't know how fast they are because I've never raced one. You should race him again
yes.. did u even read what i said tho..

I've followed the new model TL when it was first released, and back then, it was rated at 270hp.

the new body maxima when first released was rated at 265hp, now its 255hp.

Why?
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      06-10-2006, 01:22 PM   #4
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There was a recent change in the way they rate the horsepower for cars (I think it changed around 2005). After the change, most of the Japanese cars saw a significant drop in rated hp, but several American cars actually had an increase in hp.

The engines are unchanged, but now we have a better idea of the REAL power of the car.
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      06-10-2006, 11:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhaulball
yes.. did u even read what i said tho..

I've followed the new model TL when it was first released, and back then, it was rated at 270hp.

the new body maxima when first released was rated at 265hp, now its 255hp.

Why?

the ratings got lower because the testing was standardized


lots of manufacturers were doing HP testing with no accesories or with non stock exhaust, giving falsely high numbers

mainly japanese manufacturers got hit with HP losses (on paper), the Vette actually gained a couple ponies.

the engines are the exact same, the performance is the same

the testing method is different
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      06-10-2006, 11:45 PM   #6
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yup its that standardized test
but then again if i were you, i wouldnt race the TL
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      06-11-2006, 01:22 AM   #7
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Maybe you suck at mashing the pedal? And 17s would make you go faster anyway...unless his 18s were lighter.
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      06-11-2006, 02:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhallball
Now im wondering, since ive known this for some time. Why is the 05 and earlier TL's rated at 270hp and 238 torque but the "new" 07 models with same body style rated at 258hp and slightly lower torque. Ive heard from my friend that the TL's handling suffered from the excess power so they lowered the hp. but then i heard from others that it was bs and they just put that on paper but the engine is the same.
theyre still the same engines but rated using the "new SAE" standarized test. this tests just standardizes some of the varibales for hp/tq ratings. most japanese cars have taken hit on their hp on paper but theyre still the same cars.

with the TL, i think on 2006 models and up, they incorperated the new SAE standard and also because of severe torque steer (esp. on their manuals) they made some changes to combat this issue. i forget what they did but i think it had to do with lowering initial torque... i dunno i forget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhallball
Then i checked out my friend taht sat in the passenger seat. He owns an 05 Nissan Maxima SE and in the 05 and older models with the new body type, they are rated 265hp. but now the "new" 07 models with the same body type have 255hp ratings...
but its interesting the new 07 nissans 3.5 VQ engines are rated at 255hp (if its true what your friends saying) because they were one of the last to hold out on incorperating the new SAE standard. which means the 350z and g35 VQ engines with better breathing isnt too far off for the 330's 255 (which has a pretty damn good tq curve)
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      06-13-2006, 01:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by younghov85
. I think that when people claim that they beat these Nissan like 350Zs and G35 coupes, they are just lying bc numbers dont lie and the 350Z is faster than a 330i. Also even car and driver said if the TL was RWD, it would be faster than the 330i. It did a 6.3 and the 330i did a 6.2 and the were both MT.
as far as i've seen, nubers lie sometimes...

my cuzn have a VW MK5 Gti, most mags said it can get low 6s in 0-60 drag.
G35 was said to gei to 60 in middle 5s, this obviously means no way the Gti will win against the G35 (and the hp difference is almost 100hp), but they did it, raced a G35 twice (on different days) n they won in both times...
next thing, a guy in a VW forum posts a vid of him racing a G35 AND winning...
how could this happen?? i dont know, but it happened, & i dont have a reason to lie about this...
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      06-13-2006, 12:28 PM   #10
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anything could happen with shitty drivers. I can beat a lambo with a shitty driver.
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      06-14-2006, 10:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD
anything could happen with shitty drivers. I can beat a lambo with a shitty driver.
not really... even if u were really shitty, auto pretty much does 95% of the "driving" for u. just punch the gas, driving was never rocket science to begin with even in manual.
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      06-14-2006, 01:40 PM   #12
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To the orig. poster....

As others stated the testing on how Hp numbers are calculated was standardized (SAE rev. Aug. 05) and so honda was one of the 1st MFGR to update the Hp numbers with all gizmos plugged in.....so 04-05 TL's engine is the same as 06-07 except that the Hp rating went down only because they test it diff....and nothing else.....

I drove the TL, I had an Accord V6 6SPD and I can honstly say IMHO the TL feels much stronger in straight line then both the 325 and the 330 and given that you have extra weight because of the AWD system...its a no brainer the TL will Win.....but try racing the driver from 100MPH to 155MPH and you will see how quick his car will run out of breath...BMW are made for High speeds with increadable cornering.....take him on a twisty road and Game over.....

But yes back to the HP nothing changes just the way they ae calculated
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      06-14-2006, 03:30 PM   #13
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Interesting. I tested a TL 6MT when I was looking at cars, and it drove very, very similarly to our Accord V6 with AT. Not a bad driver -- and fast, too -- but too much like what I already have, so it immediately was out of the running for me.

The 330i I tested felt a lot more solid, less "floaty." The speed and accelleration felt about the same, but it was more engaging to drive. The G35 I tested felt very similar -- both felt a lot better to me than the TL.

As for the GTI, I'm a little surprised to hear it beat a G35, but I'd attribute it to poor technique by the G35 driver, too. I tested a GLI (the Jetta body equivalent), which was a lot more fun than the TL, and quick (lots of torque) but it felt not as fast as the other cars once you got to highway speeds. At lower speeds, it was extremely peppy.

All in all, I was not overly impressed with the TL. It gets great reviews, but it wasn't for me. It could just be that I'm ready to drive something different than a Honda.
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      06-16-2006, 03:56 PM   #14
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I beat a TL this afternoon!! I had read this post a few times in the past couple of days, so the thought of loosing was sitting in the back of my head when I saw him pulling up behind me at a red light.

I was the first car at the red light, and he was directly behind me. At first, I just accelerated rather quickly(not flooring it) and he was riding my rear bumper. I then knew he wanted to race. Again at the next light he pulled up directly behind me (I know it's not as good as side by side). I didn't floor it right off the line, because I knew I'd have an unfair advantage. Instead, I accelerated normally to 15 mph (noticing he was about 4-5' off my rear bumper) and then I floored it. He was right on my tail until about 50mph, then the gap widened, and continued to do so until 90 mph, then we slowed down due to traffic. In that distance, I had put about 2.5 car lengths between us.

I still wish we were side by side, but it was still exciting.
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      06-16-2006, 08:29 PM   #15
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i guess 330xi is more significantly slower than the TL and 330i than i presumed
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      06-17-2006, 12:42 AM   #16
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I wouldn't say alot but just a little slower.
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      06-17-2006, 05:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK
As for the GTI, I'm a little surprised to hear it beat a G35, but I'd attribute it to poor technique by the G35 driver, too. I tested a GLI (the Jetta body equivalent), which was a lot more fun than the TL, and quick (lots of torque) but it felt not as fast as the other cars once you got to highway speeds. At lower speeds, it was extremely peppy.

.
u were little surpriced?? i was SUPER SURPRICED!!!!!!
the G35 has 100 more hp, and it has 3.5 V6 engine, so ithought that the GTI cant beat it in niether the biginning, nor the end...

ps: i didnt understand what u meant by poor driving technique?? it was a straight line race n both cars r AT...
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