Soo the big Debate...

[edge350]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I appologize if I am being too right wing for people, or if I have been childish.

You present broad minded and reasonable arguments. I enjoy reading your posts.

[ARES45]

Thank you edge, I have been watching more 'news' channels lately and I worry about shifting too far right. Plus some people were expressing distaste for the discussion that was happening here.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by 1love

Well part of a debate is how you adapt to your opponents responses right. We saw that with McCain and Obama responding to each others comments, Palin better be able to do that.

If she repeats the same stuff then thats the nail in the coffin. So she has to talk and adapt.

Its really sad its come down to this. I was leaning towards McCain for a long time but i just can't believe he picked Palin!

The McCain campaign demanded and got changes in the format to shorten the amount of time allocated for responses in the VP debate. So there will be much less of that than there was in last night's debate.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by Call

Spook: That's the problem with McCain.. he *always* thinks from his feet.

Call: As opposed to someone who thinks with his little head like Clinton?

So, what does Clinton getting a blow job in office have to do with any of this? Nobody supports his actions in doing that. You don't see me bringing up how McCain cheated on his disfigured wife when he came back from the war and then ditched her for the woman he was cheating with? How is this germane to a war that cost trillions for no apparent reason and the ruination of our economy? That's the problem with many in this country. Simplistic tabloid issues they get (even if they were 9 years ago). Anything more complex than that and they gloss over.

Spook: We're going to discuss Biden's qualifications versus Palin? You must be joking. Moose burgers all around! Wait.. we have to pray for abstinence and the dis-proof of evolution first. Bush Doctrine? Whaddya mean? Barbies for War...

Call: When you practice abstinence you don't have to pray. Don't you have your thoughts a little backwards?

So you figure we're going to stop teens from having sex, huh? The point is, Palin refused to support sex education in Alaska and would only fund campaigns on abstinence. It is ironic her daughter shows up as yet another unwanted teen pregnancy. We don't need this kind of blind adherence to religious dogma and naivety in our government.

Call: And as for the Bush Doctrine...pretty hard to describe something someone else just thought up. My friend that's something the MSM made up. If you will check your sources again maybe you will find no such thing exists...except in their own minds. As opposed to the Monroe Docrine which did exist. Give me a break! Come back when you have something real to debate.

Oh, and just to let you know you don't have to right to have an opinion but you do when you want to allude it to fact.

Umm.. what do you call it? The Bush Doctrine may have been coined by someone other than the Bush administration but it is how the policy of preemptive intervention prior to an act of aggression (among other things) is termed . It was the policy created to justify the war in Iraq. Pretty common term. Do a Google search. Look it up on wikipedia. It is part of our diplomatic language and anyone who follows the news knows what it means. It was really shocking that Palin didn't even know what it was.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by Call

You don't have to be in the same room with someone to negotiate a deal but you do have to bring reason to the table. If you think the Liberal Democrat Leadership brought reason to the table you understand what went on behind closed doors.

Call

Excuse me? Which news reports are you reading? Every single source has said that this was derailed (for the time being) by conservative republicans in the House. They went as far as proposing an alternative approach based on mortgage insurance.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by edge350

You present broad minded and reasonable arguments. I enjoy reading your posts.

+1

Ares and Nixon and most others are respectful and, as far as I can tell, wish to further their understanding of the issues through the insight of others. A statement like 'I'm worried I'm going too far right' means there is thought and self examination. I find myself drawn to things like the environmental policies of the left but conservative fiscal policy of the right (minus unregulated free for alls that wreck the economy) so I'm often baffled. Though I am anti-Bush and anti-religious right, I'm also anti-hand out and anti-tax-us-to-death. As political discussions go this is reasonable and useful. Of course that doesn't apply across the board, but who expects perfection?

Just remember. Lord Acton said "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" but he also said "Almost all great men are bad men".

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by Spook

+1

Ares and Nixon and most others are respectful and, as far as I can tell, wish to further their understanding of the issues through the insight of others. A statement like 'I'm worried I'm going too far right' means there is thought and self examination. I find myself drawn to things like the environmental policies of the left but conservative fiscal policy of the right (minus unregulated free for alls that wreck the economy) so I'm often baffled. Though I am anti-Bush and anti-religious right, I'm also anti-hand out and anti-tax-us-to-death. As political discussions go this is reasonable and useful. Of course that doesn't apply across the board, but who expects perfection?

Just remember. Lord Acton said "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" but he also said "Almost all great men are bad men".

The conservative fiscal policy OF THE RIGHT???!!! You mean the massive budget deficits of Reagan and both Bushes still mean nothing to you? The last Democratic president NOT to have a conservative fiscal policy was LBJ. LBJ!!!!

40 years ago.

It is true testimony to the power of the corporate-owned news media that anyone could possibly associate the right with conservative fiscal policy.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

There are some people that will never be happy.

I expect an old fashioned ass whoppin by McCain on (I cant think on my feet, stuttering) Obama tonight.

As for the VP debate next week, I would suggest Mr.Biden to brush up on recent American history to see when the Great Depression was, whom was President at the time and that Televsion did not exist then. hahaahha.. that's the Joe Biden I've come to know over the years. Open mouth, insert foot. Repeat.

And spelling. And capitalization. And punctuation. Ha, ha, ha.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by sethchan

The conservative fiscal policy OF THE RIGHT???!!! You mean the massive budget deficits of Reagan and both Bushes still mean nothing to you? The last Democratic president NOT to have a conservative fiscal policy was LBJ. LBJ!!!!

40 years ago.

It is true testimony to the power of the corporate-owned news media that anyone could possibly associate the right with conservative fiscal policy.

Actually, I knew this relative to specific administrations. Reagan had the military build up continued by papa Bush. Clinton was outraged when he found he had no choice but to work off the deficit left by his predecessors. Obama will have little choice but to work off Bush's war and bail out deficit. Some have gone as far as to say that the big deficits are a ploy to stifle innovation in social policy and it may be. When I use the 'right' in this context it's the fairy tale version of conservatives versus liberals attitudes, not the reality. You are completely correct in that, in practice, the Republicans have been the big deficit spenders and Democratic administrations more focused on balance.

[PA135i]

Originally Posted by sethchan

And spelling. And capitalization. And punctuation. Ha, ha, ha.

Relax Pal. Some of us here type fast when we post. Others spend more time.
I suggest you stick to the topic or take a hike.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

Relax Pal. Some of us here type fast when we post. Others spend more time.
I suggest you stick to the topic or take a hike.

As is your hostility, pal. And, by the way, there's an edit button, pal.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by Spook

Actually, I knew this relative to specific administrations. Reagan had the military build up continued by papa Bush. Clinton was outraged when he found he had no choice but to work off the deficit left by his predecessors. Obama will have little choice but to work off Bush's war and bail out deficit. Some have gone as far as to say that the big deficits are a ploy to stifle innovation in social policy and it may be. When I use the 'right' in this context it's the fairy tale version of conservatives versus liberals attitudes, not the reality. You are completely correct in that, in practice, the Republicans have been the big deficit spenders and Democratic administrations more focused on balance.

...that it should really be retired.

Its weird, too, because the last time the right was more focused on balanced budgets than the Democrats, was in the Depression, when balanced budgets would have been counterproductive. So I would agree it has been a ploy.

What amazes me is that Americans put up with this. Compared to Europe, the U.S. is a Third World country. Life is way more comfortable over here. I'm a U.S. citizen, but would never live or work in the U.S. again. It's Dickensian.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

There are some people that will never be happy.

I expect an old fashioned ass whoppin by McCain on (I cant think on my feet, stuttering) Obama tonight.

As for the VP debate next week, I would suggest Mr.Biden to brush up on recent American history to see when the Great Depression was, whom was President at the time and that Televsion did not exist then. hahaahha.. that's the Joe Biden I've come to know over the years. Open mouth, insert foot. Repeat.

Ha, ha, ha! Undecided voters declared Obama the winner by more that 2 to 1. Some "ass whoppin" (sic) McCain delivered. Hilarious.

Looks like condescending, peevish bluster doesn't sell like it used to. Stick a fork in him.

[Call]

kmoi9768761234nfp-0oi=-09f

Sorry about my spelling:iono: Anywho, lets take a look at some who just don't seem to have a clue.

Spook, a little humor helps to keep some things in focus and not let the mudslinging get out of hand. That was my intent with the Clinton "small head" line.

And as for stopping teens from having sex, Palin against sex ed in schools and abstinence...
Why is the option of abstinence not considered sex education? And for the record, no, I am not naive to the point I think teens will stop having sex. I'd just like to get some not to ever start. It's reasonable to think it is much easier to get someone to not do something than to stop doing something.

Teaching abstinence is not just about not having sex. It's teaching about self control, individual responsibility, pregnantcy, and disease.

Palin wasn't against sex ed in schools. She was against sex ed in school that taught only one side of the issues and wanted to limit what was being taught to that which is germane to the issues.

As for the Bush Doctrine...it still doesn't exist. Bush has certain foreign policies just as every other administration has had. I don't recall a Clinton Doctrine yet he had specific foreign policies. So, when you want to ask a question about how one feels about a certain policy then be more specific. And as for anyone who follows the news knows what it means...you mean anyone who listens to the MSM asking questions about something that doesn't exist should know about something that doesn't exit...I'll take that as your attempt at humor so I'll just let it go

I'll come back later to address the other issues but I have a party to get ready for. Just hold that thought:biggrin:

Call

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by Call

kmoi9768761234nfp-0oi=-09f

Sorry about my spelling:iono: Anywho, lets take a look at some who just don't seem to have a clue.

Spook, a little humor helps to keep some things in focus and not let the mudslinging get out of hand. That was my intent with the Clinton "small head" line.

And as for stopping teens from having sex, Palin against sex ed in schools and abstinence...
Why is the option of abstinence not considered sex education? And for the record, no, I am not naive to the point I think teens will stop having sex. I'd just like to get some not to ever start. It's reasonable to think it is much easier to get someone to not do something than to stop doing something.

Teaching abstinence is not just about not having sex. It's teaching about self control, individual responsibility, pregnantcy, and disease.

Palin wasn't against sex ed in schools. She was against sex ed in school that taught only one side of the issues and wanted to limit what was being taught to that which is germane to the issues.

As for the Bush Doctrine...it still doesn't exist. Bush has certain foreign policies just as every other administration has had. I don't recall a Clinton Doctrine yet he had specific foreign policies. So, when you want to ask a question about how one feels about a certain policy then be more specific. And as for anyone who follows the news knows what it means...you mean anyone who listens to the MSM asking questions about something that doesn't exist should know about something that doesn't exit...I'll take that as your attempt at humor so I'll just let it go

I'll come back later to address the other issues but I have a party to get ready for. Just hold that thought:biggrin:

Call

No one I know objects to sex education that promotes abstinence. However, Palin, along with the rest of the Republican Party, demands so-called "abstinence only" sex education. In "abstinence only" sex education, abstinence is the only form of birth control that can be taught. In "abstinence only" sex education, students cannot be taught about contraception.

And, of course, it turns out that most right-wingers (Present company excepted, of course!) are such idiots that they don't seem to notice that wherever "abstinence only" sex education is mandated, there are higher teen pregnancy rates that there are in places where students get access to information about contraception. Yep, that's right. Just like most all the perverts in Congress turn out to be right-wing Republicans and "born again," so-called "Christians."

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by sethchan

And, of course, it turns out that most right-wingers (Present company excepted, of course!) are such idiots that they don't seem to notice that wherever "abstinence only" sex education is mandated, there are higher teen pregnancy rates that there are in places where students get access to information about contraception. Yep, that's right. Just like most all the perverts in Congress turn out to be right-wing Republicans and "born again," so-called "Christians."

When your party's hero is Bill Clinton, a person who cheated on his wife in the oval office then purgered himself about it in front of the whole nation, I just simply chuckle at that last comment. I guess it is ok becuase he balanced the budget and all it took was to make the members of the military some of the poorest paid workers in the gov't with little money for equipment repairs let alone upgrades, bravo Billy. Thanks also for making it the mindset and policy that everyone should own a home regardless of whether or not they can afford it, we will go ahead and pay for that mistake now. This is not to say that the Rep. don't have hipocrites as well, but I don't think they have that many more that the Dems. Our congress is made up of a ridiculous amount of law breakers and feinds, but that is who we voted in, so guess where the blame falls.

As for Palin's social conservatism, I am not a big fan of her views on abortion, sex ed, and religion, but I would still pick her over anyone with the name Clinton.

If the 'Bush Doctrine' were an actual Doctrine, then we would be fighting more than two wars right now. We would be in Iran, North Korea, Venezula, the list goes on. At least Palin didn't start running her mouth off about something she knew nothing about (Mr. Biden).

[PA135i]

Originally Posted by sethchan

I'm a U.S. citizen, but would never live or work in the U.S. again. It's Dickensian.

Then I would suggest that you give up your U.S. citizenship. There are many others that would love to take your place in this "3rd world Country".

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

Then I would suggest that you give up your U.S. citizenship. There are many others that would love to take your place in this "3rd world Country".

+1 Would he still be entitled to receive some sort of government pension, old age security if he retains citizenship?

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

Then I would suggest that you give up your U.S. citizenship. There are many others that would love to take your place in this "3rd world Country".

Your lack of logic is impressive.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by ARES45

When your party's hero is Bill Clinton, a person who cheated on his wife in the oval office then purgered himself about it in front of the whole nation, I just simply chuckle at that last comment. I guess it is ok becuase he balanced the budget and all it took was to make the members of the military some of the poorest paid workers in the gov't with little money for equipment repairs let alone upgrades, bravo Billy. Thanks also for making it the mindset and policy that everyone should own a home regardless of whether or not they can afford it, we will go ahead and pay for that mistake now. This is not to say that the Rep. don't have hipocrites as well, but I don't think they have that many more that the Dems. Our congress is made up of a ridiculous amount of law breakers and feinds, but that is who we voted in, so guess where the blame falls.

As for Palin's social conservatism, I am not a big fan of her views on abortion, sex ed, and religion, but I would still pick her over anyone with the name Clinton.

If the 'Bush Doctrine' were an actual Doctrine, then we would be fighting more than two wars right now. We would be in Iran, North Korea, Venezula, the list goes on. At least Palin didn't start running her mouth off about something she knew nothing about (Mr. Biden).

...is worse than being an extremist ignoramus? I can see why the U.S. is in the shape it's in.

[PA135i]

Originally Posted by sethchan

Your lack of logic is impressive.

We are all very impressed by you also. You seem to have all the answers to the worlds problems. Congratulations :biggrin:

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by sethchan

...is worse than being an extremist ignoramus? I can see why the U.S. is in the shape it's in.

It is not the affair that bothers me, it is the purgery. Palin has yet to break any laws, especially while in the role of the President of the United States.