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      09-19-2008, 01:46 PM   #23
corpsman
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50 billion, if you think thats alot of money, consider this. This so-called war in Iraq/Afghanistan is costing us taxpayers $10 billion per month.
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      09-19-2008, 01:59 PM   #24
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Why are you even talking about R&D? They don't need to do R&D; others have done it for them. This company has just ignored what other manufacturers in the world have been up to for years, pandering to the home market which hasn't needed to make the decisions other countries have had to because of the price of fuel/tax regimes/green agendas etc.
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      09-19-2008, 02:06 PM   #25
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I would put ethanol in my 135i if I could and if I lived back in my homestate of NE but I grew up on a farm. My father is mixing fuels and running roughly e25-30 in all his vehicles and it has shown no loss in efficiency so I would like to see something closer to e20 at 92 octane at the pumps. I like that GM builds vehicles that run on e85, but that isn't really enough to make any of their vehicles attractive to me.

If what the CEO was saying is true, the gov't does need to make good on its promises of loans and grants to automakers investing in fuel efficient vehicles.
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      09-19-2008, 02:08 PM   #26
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Why are you even talking about R&D? They don't need to do R&D; others have done it for them. This company has just ignored what other manufacturers in the world have been up to for years, pandering to the home market which hasn't needed to make the decisions other countries have had to because of the price of fuel/tax regimes/green agendas etc.

What are other manufacturers doing that GM isn't? Hybrids? The Japanese government footed a large portion of the developement for that, and then the US government gave buyers tax credits to reduce the purchase price.

GM and Ford both have hybrid offerings, and have for several years anyway.
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      09-19-2008, 03:33 PM   #27
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NO ONE was predicting the rise in oil prices that we've seen over the last 6 months.
We've been predicting the rise in gas costs since the 70's and even more so when the war started back in 2001.
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      09-19-2008, 04:08 PM   #28
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We've been predicting the rise in gas costs since the 70's and even more so when the war started back in 2001.

No one was predicting what we've seen this summer, or at least no one that anyone listens to.

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      09-19-2008, 04:23 PM   #29
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When the horse is dead, dismount.

GM will be a Chinese company within 5 years.
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      09-19-2008, 07:30 PM   #30
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Why do you think the muscle car era died?(no, government regulation did not kill it)

The beginning of GM's problems did not begin this summer. Many companies change their production to meet market demands, but GM is too stupid to figure that out, so they continued producing huge SUV's, trucks, and other non fuel efficient cars. They are now paying for their stupid decisions and expect the government to bail them out like a little child. The reason why the US automakers lost so much control in the 70's was because of the cost of fuel and their refusal to change to more fuel efficient cars. If they were too stupid to figure it out the first time why do you think that they will change anything this time?
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      09-19-2008, 08:38 PM   #31
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Why do you think the muscle car era died?(no, government regulation did not kill it)

The beginning of GM's problems did not begin this summer. Many companies change their production to meet market demands, but GM is too stupid to figure that out, so they continued producing huge SUV's, trucks, and other non fuel efficient cars. They are now paying for their stupid decisions and expect the government to bail them out like a little child. The reason why the US automakers lost so much control in the 70's was because of the cost of fuel and their refusal to change to more fuel efficient cars. If they were too stupid to figure it out the first time why do you think that they will change anything this time?


Why do you insist on posting the same mis-information OVER AND OVER. This isn't a bailout, and it isn't FOR GM. It's for any automaker who wants it, and it's to help them meet new regulations.
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      09-20-2008, 01:47 AM   #32
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Why do you insist on posting the same mis-information OVER AND OVER. This isn't a bailout, and it isn't FOR GM. It's for any automaker who wants it, and it's to help them meet new regulations.
GM is the corporation that is asking for the bailout. Why do you keep insisting that it is the other companies that are asking for the bailouts? What information do keep posting that is "the same misinformation"? Are you claiming that Gm is in NO WAY BENEFITING FROM THEIR OWN PROPOSAL? If so I don't believe that somebody that is capable of buying a high end car is not able to understand that a company is not going to lobby for the competition.
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      09-20-2008, 06:57 AM   #33
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capitalism is dead, the US is turning into a socialist country with these bailouts and government owned companies, just like the old soviet union

rest in peace capitalism
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      09-20-2008, 07:18 AM   #34
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^^Good point. That and the fact that the government spies on its citizens.
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      09-20-2008, 08:33 AM   #35
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GM is the corporation that is asking for the bailout. Why do you keep insisting that it is the other companies that are asking for the bailouts? What information do keep posting that is "the same misinformation"? Are you claiming that Gm is in NO WAY BENEFITING FROM THEIR OWN PROPOSAL? If so I don't believe that somebody that is capable of buying a high end car is not able to understand that a company is not going to lobby for the competition.


It's already been very clearly posted that GM IS NOT the only company involved, and will in NO WAY recieve the entire amount, as you keep insisting. Of course they will recieve some of it....they're part of the auto industry. This is simply a matter of the government helping the automakers meet federal MANDATES that were made in the best interest of the citizens of the country. It's very common for the government to help industry adapt to new legislation.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/05/news...ion=2008090518

Quote:
Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, said the loan guarantees are good for the country because they would help preserve an industry that is responsible for one in 12 U.S. jobs. They're not a bailout, he said.
"This is not about benefiting Wall Street, like maybe some of the other actions that have been taken," Fields said. "This is benefiting Main Street, the working men and women. The auto industry is part of the backbone of the U.S. economy."
The federal government estimates that fuel efficiency and other requirements in the energy bill passed earlier this year will cost the auto industry around $100 billion, but Ford's estimate is higher, Fields said.
He said the loan guarantees should be open to all manufacturers, whether foreign-based or domestic.
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      09-23-2008, 07:25 AM   #36
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Is there a point to this thread? :iono: It reminds me of another

It's obvious that a few of you need to agree that you disagree!
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      09-23-2008, 08:52 AM   #37
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It's all moot anyway. With the Secretary of the Treasury wanting $700 billion to buy consolidated debt, there's not going to be anything on the table for GM or any car company. Zip, nadda, zilch.
Lutz was on the Colbert Report the other night. I can't fathom who advised him to do that. He pretty much came off as an old, slow suit. I'm sure he thought he could exchange quips (he did try, agreeing that they had originally tried a 40 mile extension cord on the Volt), but mostly he seemed dazed and confused by Colbert's rapid-fire ribbing. Overall, it did not bolster confidence in GM.
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      09-23-2008, 10:38 AM   #38
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The big 3 did not learn a lesson from the late 70's, when the auto industry from outside the states started to build fuel sipping cars that worked.
During the 80's and 90's they still didn't get the big picture. (junk cars) Now they finiley started to build cars that run for more then 2 years. But the damage was already done.

When we went out to shop for cars we looked at the C300, IS250, BMW, and the caddilac STS. I asked the sales guy, "what extra service do we get if we bought this STS?" He said NONE!!!! All the others offered to pick the car up and you get a loaner.
The above is one of many reasons they should not get a loan backing. They woluld just piss it away.
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      09-23-2008, 10:41 AM   #39
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I can care less if they go out, but that just means if they do, more hondas and toyotas will fill the road, or the government will ask more luxury and luxury performance brands to either come down in price or start offering cheaper vehicles. Thats my take.
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