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      07-01-2008, 12:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Papito135 View Post
Good, let the Special Forces do their job and stop the media from blowing out of proportion. If the media was not in Iraq and Afghanistan this war would have been over a long time ago.

So we should control our media? Lots of countries do it. China, Iran, and North Korea come to mind.

Whatever happened to our freedoms being so important that they come first? I have no love for the media, but I do for the bill of rights.
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      07-01-2008, 02:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
So we should control our media? Lots of countries do it. China, Iran, and North Korea come to mind.

Whatever happened to our freedoms being so important that they come first? I have no love for the media, but I do for the bill of rights.
We need media to not be the judge of what happens. Reporters should be there just to capture what happens, not the glimpse they see and fill in the blanks with what they think.
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      07-01-2008, 02:19 PM   #25
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And Now for Something Completely Different . . .

. . . a little levity please, maestro!

Why Grown Men Shouldn't Own Action Figures

Attached Images
 
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      07-01-2008, 02:52 PM   #26
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I think this is an example of good leadership from a Commander.

Iran is aiding the enemy in Iraq with weapons and warriors, so we send our Special Ops people in to disrupt their aid. These are the games we play. He could do nothing, or he could send regular traditional forces in, but he asked for "a major escalation of covert operations against Iran." This keeps us out of open war with Iran and is better than nothing.

I don't understand how this is shocking to anyone. What did you think happened after the media reported that Iran was supplying insurgents with weapons and training. This is why you pay your taxes, so we can train some bad-ass special ops person to win wars before they ever start.

This escalation in covert ops is one of the reasons the war is going better than a year ago, so be thankful for those who will never tell you what they do as opposed to us cocky pilots who won't shut up about it.
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      07-01-2008, 03:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
. . . a little levity please, maestro!

Why Grown Men Shouldn't Own Action Figures
Hahaha, you tricked me atr. When I first saw that pic, I was like damn thats a huge fox, then I looked again, squirrel and two action figures.
My name is RobLS and I've just been punked.
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      07-01-2008, 03:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARES45 View Post
I think this is an example of good leadership from a Commander.

Iran is aiding the enemy in Iraq with weapons and warriors, so we send our Special Ops people in to disrupt their aid. These are the games we play. He could do nothing, or he could send regular traditional forces in, but he asked for "a major escalation of covert operations against Iran." This keeps us out of open war with Iran and is better than nothing.

I don't understand how this is shocking to anyone. What did you think happened after the media reported that Iran was supplying insurgents with weapons and training. This is why you pay your taxes, so we can train some bad-ass special ops person to win wars before they ever start.

This escalation in covert ops is one of the reasons the war is going better than a year ago, so be thankful for those who will never tell you what they do as opposed to us cocky pilots who won't shut up about it.
Nicely said good sir.
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      07-01-2008, 03:15 PM   #29
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special forces are the way to go.....if its not on radar and nobody takes pictures and video of them...they were never there....oh they were? did you see them with your eyes? "no". did someone get video or pictures of them? "no" ok then it never happened
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      07-01-2008, 03:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLS View Post
We need media to not be the judge of what happens. Reporters should be there just to capture what happens, not the glimpse they see and fill in the blanks with what they think.
Exactly. The average person takes what the news media says as fact, and not merely opinion. This makes it very easy for the media to make an event appear one-sided, and therefore more appealing to their political side of the fence.

I personally don't feel that the media has any business in a war zone. Its not something people need to see. Bad things happen every day over here. We get paid to deal with it, and make judgements and decisions as we see fit. The citizens of the world do not. Yet they do get to see it, and force their opinions on their political represtatives, effecting the outcome of a war they had no part in.
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      07-01-2008, 04:04 PM   #31
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And a tip of the hat to you
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      07-01-2008, 06:51 PM   #32
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The press belongs wherever they feel they need to go. I like bashing the press as much as the next guy. I like kicking the bad guys tail. I've spent much of my professional life supporting military ops of some sort. Still.. it's about freedom of the press and it's important. There's plenty of blame to go around for why the press panders to the lowest common denominator (you can start with our crappy schools) but we need them watching our government (military included).
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      07-01-2008, 06:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
. . . a little levity please, maestro!

Why Grown Men Shouldn't Own Action Figures

Don't even think of dressing one up like the stig and photographing it on the wheel of your 1er..
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      07-01-2008, 08:28 PM   #34
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As long as the covert actions stay covert, and don't lead us into open conflict with Iran, I don't have a problem with them. That means centering on intel gathering, and keeping away from any significant acts of violence that could start a war.

US covert activities are going on in so many countries it isn't even funny. Middle East, Asia, Central Am, Lat. Am, Africa, you name it. But the covert ops aren't allowed to get to a level of open warfare. The problem is that I don't trust the current administration NOT to start open war with Iran.

__________________________________________________ __________

As for Iranian nukes, Iran's only production level enrichment facility in Natanz is the most heavily inspected and observed nuclear facility in the world. It has been confirmed, and continually is confirmed to be producing only 3.5% enriched uranium. 3.5% enriched uranium is useless for weapons, and is only suitable for civilian power generation.

Iran does not have the 90%+ enriched weapons grade uranium that would be needed to build nuclear weapons. No weapons grade uranium means no nuke weapons for Iran. There just isn't any Islamic prayer that can get around that basic rule of physics.

As long as the US and Israel doesn't stir up a war that would give Iran an excuse to withdraw from the NPT (nuclear non-proliferation treaty) and kick out the inspectors, Iran will continue to produce just 3.5% enriched uranium under heavy observation. And Iran will continue to have nothing with which to build any nukes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That big-mouthed Ahmadinejad who has been threatening Israel, will be voted out of office next spring anyways. Iran has moved up elections by 2 years just to get rid of him and his big mouth. He's fallen out of favor with the Supreme Leader, and his hand-picked replacement will be elected instead. Unless of course Israel or the US make him into a war-time president by attacking Iran. Not even the Mullahs could manipulate the Iranian elections enough to keep a standing war-time president from being re-elected. An attack by Israel or the US will just help Ahmadinejad in the next elections.

Currently the best course of action to keep Iran from building nukes, and to get rid of Ahmadinejad is to avoid open warfare with Iran, and rely instead on covert acts and global negotiations to restrain Iran from changing the status quo.
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      07-02-2008, 06:54 AM   #35
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This discussion uses terms that are widely embraced and widely misunderstood - 'covert ops' being a good example. The assumption made when that term is used here is that operators in the field are under direct control of our country's MCA, and so what they do inside Iran during these ops is aligned with our broader military and political objectives. As mentioned earlier, these ops are in fact being conducted by indigenous & independent splinter groups who's gripes and tribal alliances are as influential in their behavior as the arms and financial support they no doubt receive as payment.

Here's a short excerpt of a current summary on these ops (see Washington Post, Ignatius column this date for more): "The danger of these cross-border activities was explained to me by one intelligence source. He said the Iranians had recently captured several dissident Iranian operatives who had been recruited by U.S. military officers inside Iraq and then sent into Iran. The Iranians, whose intelligence network inside Iraq is pervasive, surveilled the meeting, then followed the agents across the border and seized them.

"The U.S. program appears to focus on political action and the collection of intelligence rather than on lethal operations. Lethal action inside Iran may be conducted independently by some groups. There are reports, for example, that Kurdish guerrillas have retaliated for Iranian shelling of Kurdistan."

A fair conclusion is that we have no connection to some of these ops, only indirect control of others (maybe...) and, judging by this thread, a very mixed understanding of the morality of these circumstances.


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      07-02-2008, 11:00 PM   #36
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Talking about covert ops, we got three of our guys back from FARC today that had been captured 5 years ago. That's good news!

But the thing that is really cracking me up is CNN keeps playing over and over a piece of film from the hostages coming off of a plane. It shows Betancourt in the foreground, with folks coming down the steps in the background. Right in the middle there is a guy facing away from the camera who is directing everyone. At the end of the clip he turns and walks towards the camera where you can very clearly see his face. The funny thing, is that HE is really who the CNN camera guy is trying to film at that point -- not Betancourt, and not the guys coming down the steps from the plane.

There is a big reason for that.

I'm not gonna give away everything I know, but let's just say that it wasn't just an accident that the Columbian forces got both Betancourt and our 3 guys from FARC, out of the 700+ hostages that FARC holds. And it wasn't crafty Columbian forces who came up with the masterful plan that got them out without a single shot being fired.

That 52 year old man barking orders in CNN's video proves that to me without a single shred of doubt. :wink:
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      08-27-2008, 02:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARES45 View Post
I think this is an example of good leadership from a Commander.

Iran is aiding the enemy in Iraq with weapons and warriors, so we send our Special Ops people in to disrupt their aid. These are the games we play. He could do nothing, or he could send regular traditional forces in, but he asked for "a major escalation of covert operations against Iran." This keeps us out of open war with Iran and is better than nothing.

I don't understand how this is shocking to anyone. What did you think happened after the media reported that Iran was supplying insurgents with weapons and training. This is why you pay your taxes, so we can train some bad-ass special ops person to win wars before they ever start.

This escalation in covert ops is one of the reasons the war is going better than a year ago, so be thankful for those who will never tell you what they do as opposed to us cocky pilots who won't shut up about it.


Too bad I did not see this thread before, but FYI people - we have covert ops going on all over the world, all the time. Many of them in places I am sure we would not even beleive. It is what keeps us safe.
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      08-27-2008, 02:44 PM   #38
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To clarify, since you guys clearly didn't read the link:

1. We are not gathering intelligence in Iran. We have special ops on the ground extracting and/or killing enemy combatants. This is NOT intelligence gathering. This is low grade warfare on Iranian soil. To me, this is news and worthy of discussion.
2. The is being conducted with full knowledge of the congressional DEMOCRATIC leadership. I'm not simply throwing stones at the president.

Read the original post, consider the link, THEN post.

And Iran along with their messenger boys, Hamas and Hezzbollah have been doing what to our troops in Iraq?

Who do you think was ultimately responsible and behind the scene for the 241 U.S. Marines murdered in Lebanon in the 1980's hint: the same ones responsible for the taking of U.S. hostages in Iran in 1979.

If we do end up dropping bombs on Iran's nuclear facilities, then it would be well deserved and way overdue.

Sometimes the cost of doing nothing can be much more expensive later than doing something now.
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