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      06-30-2008, 08:00 AM   #1
edge350
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US Military conducting covert operations in Iran

This can't be good.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_109818.html

Logical questions:
1. What evidence/data convinced the President and the Democratic leaders in Congress that the presence of US military on Iranian soil was necessary?
2. What is the long term objective and plan for reaching that objective?

This could be a slippery slope. If the government had the trust of the American people, perhaps we could be patient waiting for the answer. This government has lost the trust of the American people. Our leaders should explain exactly what path they're leading us down.

Can someone turn this into a poll and close the thread? (I don't know how)
Question: Should the US military have been permitted to conduct covert operations in Iran?
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      06-30-2008, 08:11 AM   #2
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Covert as opposed to opening bombing Iran? I would prefer they be checking things out before wantonly striking Iran without intel.
You appear to be at best a little nieve...this sort of thing goes on all the time. It's called gathering intelligence.

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      06-30-2008, 08:53 AM   #3
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We're talking about someone (W) dumb enough to invade Iraq. He might be dumb enough to take military action against Iran even with a lack of support and lame duck status.
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      06-30-2008, 09:59 AM   #4
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The tread is about conducting covert operations not the politics of W. I prefer to stick to the subject at hand. I'll be glad to address your comment in a separate thread if you wish.

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      06-30-2008, 10:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
We're talking about someone (W) dumb enough to invade Iraq. He might be dumb enough to take military action against Iran even with a lack of support and lame duck status.
Is it just me, or does this guy take a swing at (W) every chance he gets, even when it doesn't pertain to him.
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      06-30-2008, 10:22 AM   #6
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Covert ops does not mean U.S. troops on Iranian soil. It could mean that, altho' that would seem very unlikely for both domestic and international reasons. OTOH there are numerous indigenous peoples that no doubt would do intel within Iran 'for us' (aka: for $$$), something we should have been (and likely, have been) doing for some years now.

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      06-30-2008, 10:31 AM   #7
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Take a chill pill edge... You criticize the President for invading Iraq based upon poor evidence/intelligence and now criticize him again for authorizing operations that will increase our level of understanding with the situation... :iono:
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      06-30-2008, 04:28 PM   #8
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To clarify, since you guys clearly didn't read the link:

1. We are not gathering intelligence in Iran. We have special ops on the ground extracting and/or killing enemy combatants. This is NOT intelligence gathering. This is low grade warfare on Iranian soil. To me, this is news and worthy of discussion.
2. The is being conducted with full knowledge of the congressional DEMOCRATIC leadership. I'm not simply throwing stones at the president.

Read the original post, consider the link, THEN post.
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      06-30-2008, 05:37 PM   #9
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On a side note, if its so covert, and it involves our special ops, why would we know about it?
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      06-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #10
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If its really covert, we would not know about it. My uncle had to do covert operations years back when we were first in the middle east. Til this day he can't talk about what he did.
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      06-30-2008, 07:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Call View Post
The tread is about conducting covert operations not the politics of W. I prefer to stick to the subject at hand. I'll be glad to address your comment in a separate thread if you wish.

Call
Thread discipline and structure, I'm sure, are very important. And I'm sure your input would, if I could only adhere to the appropriate forum architecture, be sage. However, I had been under the impression that ed350 had started the thread. Further, in my confusion, I thought he noted that covert escalation was not a good thing (politically among other things, one might erroneously assume) and posed some good questions about what might come of it. Covert versus outright invasion is one discussion tack I suppose though that will be a short discussion. Another angle is a bit more complex and that is what our leaders are likely to do next (which ed posed).This brings us to W and the possibility of him doing something dumb (again) and the more complex question of where the line is given current controls on the executive (e.g. Democratic Leadership). Of course this was obviously the wrong place to make such an observation since it was not your interpretation of the issue in play and you are, in some way I'm obviously missing, a proxy for ed350 in defining his intent.

As for slamming W, noting that he has a history of ill conceived incursion, it was appropriate for the topic. For noting his contributions to our well being on other topics but we're going to need lots of other threads (i.e. economy, supreme court, foreign affairs, environmental, etc.)



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      06-30-2008, 08:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
Another angle is a bit more complex and that is what our leaders are likely to do next (which ed posed).This brings us to W and the possibility of him doing something dumb (again) and the more complex question of where the line is given current controls on the executive (e.g. Democratic Leadership).
-Spook
Spook's point is worth considering.

The excerpt below is from a PBS site: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../etc/cron.html

With only weeks left in his term as president, George Bush responds to the UN request, proposing that US combat troops lead an international UN force to secure the environment for relief operations. On December 5, the UN accepts his offer, and Bush orders 25,000 US troops into Somalia. On December 9th, the first US Marines land on the beach.
Bush assures the American people and troops involved that this is not an open ended commitment; the objective is to quickly provide a secure environment so that food can get through to the starving Somalis, and then the operation will be turned over to the UN peacekeeping forces. He assures the public that he plans for the troops to be home by Clinton's inauguration in January.
This US-led United Task Force (UNITAF) is dubbed "Operation Restore Hope."


My point is that Iran may also turn into a new military expedition in the final months of a presidency. It's happened before, interestingly, with a president named Bush. Intervening in Somalia was a disaster, but was self-contained and had limited long-term consequences. With our military already engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, with potential volatility in surrounding nations (Pakistan, Syria), war in Iran will have major consequences in the Middle East.

So why would we put American feet on the ground in Iran, repeatedly, for the past year? What could we possibly be hoping to accomplish? This isn't a humanitarian operation in a political isolated region...
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      06-30-2008, 09:42 PM   #13
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Good, let the Special Forces do their job and stop the media from blowing out of proportion. If the media was not in Iraq and Afghanistan this war would have been over a long time ago.
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      06-30-2008, 09:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papito135 View Post
Good, let the Special Forces do their job and stop the media from blowing out of proportion. If the media was not in Iraq and Afghanistan this war would have been over a long time ago.
Ditto, the media is what makes whackjobs, like some others not worth mentioning.
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      06-30-2008, 11:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Good, let the Special Forces do their job and stop the media from blowing out of proportion. If the media was not in Iraq and Afghanistan this war would have been over a long time ago.

x10,000 I don't believe the in an open and uncensored media in a war zone. If people need to see the war that bad, go find a recruiter.


On another, Iran is not innocent. They have been sticking their noses in Iraq's business for a while now. And our guys have died because of it.
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      07-01-2008, 12:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by EODGUY View Post
x10,000 I don't believe the in an open and uncensored media in a war zone. If people need to see the war that bad, go find a recruiter.


On another, Iran is not innocent. They have been sticking their noses in Iraq's business for a while now. And our guys have died because of it.
Ssshhh EODGUY, you only know first hand. So you really know nothing. I only believe reporters who don't report just news, but mainly their opinions. Yellow journalism is so nice.

Actually, it makes it nice to hear from you guys. Keep up the great work out there. Always supporting you all.
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      07-01-2008, 12:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
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On another, Iran is not innocent. They have been sticking their noses in Iraq's business for a while now. And our guys have died because of it.


This is a fact, and could honestly be considered an act of war. Iran is controlled by a group of complete whackos, and has the potential to become completely unpredictable. Given their known efforts for nuclear procurement, and their tolerence for radical Islam, not taking them seriously as a threat to world security would be a mistake.

I'm not a huge fan of the war in Iraq. I think the outcome will eventually be good, but I also don't like the fact that we were mislead, and that it was poorly handled, and I lost friends because of it.

At the same time, I have to make the assumption that our Intel agencies are on their game at this point, and know more about what's going on in Iran than I do. The fact that Congress has backed the President on something like this given the current political climate would lead me to believe that there's a lot more going on than we know about, and that there's justification for the move.
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      07-01-2008, 07:39 AM   #18
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Seems to me those who are chiding members to read the link need to read the link. Better yet, it wouldn't go amiss to read more than one story on this subject. (Fox News: A contradiction in terms...)

The coverage on this 'covert ops' story reports two main purposes: nuke development-related intel and disruption of/interference with the functioning of the Iranian government. Across the Bay from where I'm writing this, at Centcom in Tampa, the Spec Ops guys will be the first to explain they would have a hard time doing either of these missions on even a limited in-country basis - no matter what we've seen Charlie Sheen do in the movies. (A few of our members here have worked with some of these folks on occasion, I suspect. For the rest, the visual image of these extraordinarily fit, English- and Spanish-speaking, almost exclusively Hispanic, Black and Caucasian young men fitting into a local Iranian scene is laughable. For a night, hiding behind a hummock - sure. Operating openly, e.g. in the daily village market - hardly.)

(True story to lighten the moment: Charlie Sheen took/was given the stage surname of his father, Martin Sheen. Emelio Estevez, Martin's oldest son, was given/kept the legal name of his father - Estevez. How did Ramon Estevez come to be Martin Sheen? He copied it from one of the most popular & respected public figures of the time who had a religious radio show and enjoyed a wide audience. That was Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, a figure most folks here probably have never heard of. Source: Not Wikipedia, which came by this much later on, but rather Marty's former NYC roommate at the time, during their 'hungry years', a former colleague of mine).

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      07-01-2008, 07:56 AM   #19
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      07-01-2008, 08:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge350 View Post
To clarify, since you guys clearly didn't read the link:

1. We are not gathering intelligence in Iran. We have special ops on the ground extracting and/or killing enemy combatants.
Yeh this is terrible...NOT

Why in the world would we want to kill the enemy before they attack us on our soil again? Or why would we want to take them out before they nuke Israel?

Yeh nuke Israel, that will stabilize things won't it?

If Clinton would have had the guts to do his job in the first place half of what we are doing now wouldn't have been needed. But no, he was too busy diddling chicks...

USS Cole, US Embassy in Saudi, first WTC attack, OBL available for capture through Syria < Clinton's penis.

The front line is at their door, not ours, keep up the good work W!!! Take the fight to them and make them pay.

Thank you to all those who serve and have served, I for one appreciate the freedom you and your families have given us.
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      07-01-2008, 12:35 PM   #21
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Clinton did A LOT more to go after Osama than W did pre-9/11, and was criticized by Republican leaders for it. Political games are just that.

As for the topic at hand, I can think of good reasons for special forces to be in Iran. They are training, equiping, and transporting people into Iraq who want to kill our people. I do not mind disrupting that with some well planned assassinations and raids. The Iranian government won't do anything about it, because they don't want to acknowledge what they're doing. I don't mind intelligence gathering, so we can destroy nuclear threats when they threaten Israel or other allies.

I'd rather have covert ops than open war. Saves more lives in the long run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135i View Post
Yeh this is terrible...NOT

Why in the world would we want to kill the enemy before they attack us on our soil again? Or why would we want to take them out before they nuke Israel?

Yeh nuke Israel, that will stabilize things won't it?

If Clinton would have had the guts to do his job in the first place half of what we are doing now wouldn't have been needed. But no, he was too busy diddling chicks...

USS Cole, US Embassy in Saudi, first WTC attack, OBL available for capture through Syria < Clinton's penis.

The front line is at their door, not ours, keep up the good work W!!! Take the fight to them and make them pay.

Thank you to all those who serve and have served, I for one appreciate the freedom you and your families have given us.
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      07-01-2008, 12:52 PM   #22
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- Life is not the Military Channel. We need to figure out the strategic vision and policy before we get to the tactical implementation.
- It is not OK (or legal) to invade whatever country we wish. We live in a world community. You do it if you absolutely, no choice, have to. (except, apparently, in cases where you wish to grab their oil but that's a different topic)
- Why is Iran with nukes more of a threat to us than North Korea with nukes?
- Israel will likely take military action. They have every reason to believe nukes would be used on them.
- And why isn't it OK for Iran to protect themselves from the 150 nukes that Israel has?

I do not want Iran to have nukes. I don't want Israel to have nukes but it's too late for that. I do want us to think about what we are doing and why and take a reasonable course. There is too much enthusiasm for kicking ass and not enough concern for consequences. Now is a good time for maturity and good judgment.
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