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      05-13-2008, 03:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 1er junkie View Post
Oh yeah??? I was going like, 237 mph the other day on the interstate while eating a pan pizza and talking on my cell phone. I only hit like 5 cars and drifted twice. Did I mention I went through a school zone in the middle of that doing 155? People, everyone has opinions, but sometimes it's better to keep to ourselves and just know that not everyone wants to hear them. That is called being an adult
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      05-13-2008, 03:50 PM   #68
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My point as the helicopter pilot was that we should better train drivers and limit them less. Make it so uncoordinated people who can't drive safely are unable to use public roads. Laws are so easily broken buy the masses that I personally feel better training that is mandatory and possibly implemented into the school system would be a better solution.
Don't be so quick to give up your freedoms for a feeling of protection.
Pilots are not some amazing creatures that can multitask in some amazing way, my post was saying that it can be taught. Why not have safer drivers than safer limits because in the end thats what counts.
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      05-13-2008, 04:06 PM   #69
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I personally agree that we should greatly increase the driving training in this country, make retesting mandatory and tack an addtional .50 cents per gallon in order to improve the quality of our roads.

Since you can't have dual licenses (one for good drivers and one for poor) you have to hold everyone to the same standards. If the majority of people are horrible drivers than everyone get punished. It is unfair but that is the way it is. If you think you are a fabulous driver than prove it on a track.

There is absolutely no way to win this arguement when those advocating acceptable speeding and drifting are breaking the law. You might not agree with the law but that does not mean you can break it. We are not talking about a law that makes no sense, the laws are there for the public good.

Just because you think breaking a law is ok doesn't make it so. If you want the law changed then petition your elected representative or get elected yourself. That is how democracy works. Flaunting it or complaining about it on the internet will not accomplish anything.

This isn't really my opinion, it is the law. That makes it the correct opinion. (until the laws change)

And yes, i have on occasion kept up with traffic which resulted in exceeding the posted speed limit by a moderate amount. Everyone with a license for longer than 6 months has. I am FOR changing the laws, just not for breaking them. Especially in excessive and dangerous ways.
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      05-13-2008, 04:53 PM   #70
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neither, it was a supreme. Then I dropped and olive on my red seat. So I bent over, of coarse at this time I was going around 235 mph, and was picking up after myself. I sure as hell dont want a brand new car dirty.
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      05-13-2008, 06:17 PM   #71
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Drivers will always speed. With the exception of a utopian society, people will always break laws. It is a fact of life. Laws have been broken throughout the history of mankind. People just need to be aware of the consequences of their actions.

With that said, I am confident most people on this forum understand the consequences of driving fast and aggressively.

End of story.
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      05-13-2008, 07:27 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Drivers will always speed. With the exception of a utopian society, people will always break laws. It is a fact of life. Laws have been broken throughout the history of mankind. People just need to be aware of the consequences of their actions.

With that said, I am confident most people on this forum understand the consequences of driving fast and aggressively.

End of story.
With that being said, in my most humble of opinions and touching on what others have mentioned, altering driver's training(in America, at least) in a way that would vastly improve one's ability and one's attitude in regards to driving would be a far more effective tool in fighting driving related injuries and deaths than any given law(and its consequences for breaking it) that exists.
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      05-13-2008, 07:27 PM   #73
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Rules are meant to be broken:biggrin:

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In all seriousness, I can not tell you how bored I was in driver's ed (all of like 2 years ago) What to do at a stop sign. What green at a traffic light meant. It was pathetic. The in car stuff was crap as well. You learned nothing about driving. I think everybody should go through a mini performance driving school. That way they can feel the limits of the car. I learned the limits of my car on my on stupidity (didn't crash or hurt anybody) and now I know better and how to react in thse situations. I know what loss of tire grip feels like. Or what hydroplaning feels like. I know what locked brakes feel like. Alot of accidents would be avoided if people recognized what was dangerous, and the only real way for that is experience.
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      05-13-2008, 09:34 PM   #74
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if we could just train some people to switch out of the passing lane (left lane on the freeway) after they're done passing, I would be a lot happier.
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      05-13-2008, 10:22 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
There is absolutely no way to win this arguement when those advocating acceptable speeding and drifting are breaking the law. You might not agree with the law but that does not mean you can break it. We are not talking about a law that makes no sense, the laws are there for the public good.

Just because you think breaking a law is ok doesn't make it so. If you want the law changed then petition your elected representative or get elected yourself. That is how democracy works. Flaunting it or complaining about it on the internet will not accomplish anything.

This isn't really my opinion, it is the law. That makes it the correct opinion. (until the laws change)
Wow, those are probably the same words used by the turn-coats before the American Revolution.

Petition? Are you eff-in serious? What country does this work in, again?

So by your reasoning, when it was the law that black people were to be segregated, the only right opinion was that it should remain that way, that segregation and racism are completely acceptable, unless of course you got a really kick-ass petition together?

Sheep like you are an embarassment, and frighteningly dangerous at the same time.
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      05-13-2008, 10:39 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Yearofthe1 View Post
Wow, those are probably the same words used by the turn-coats before the American Revolution.

Petition? Are you eff-in serious? What country does this work in, again?

So by your reasoning, when it was the law that black people were to be segregated, the only right opinion was that it should remain that way, that segregation and racism are completely acceptable, unless of course you got a really kick-ass petition together?

Sheep like you are an embarassment, and frighteningly dangerous at the same time.

Well I am sure glad you commented with your well thought out and adult opinion. I am a sheep because I believe following the law is the right thing to do? You are such a rebel, speeding and drifting in your 135. Passing on the right and cutting through all the ignorant sheep driving the speed limit. Those people are so dumb! Don't they realize you are driving a BMW!!! They should move out of your way immediately!

A speed limit of 55 is no great insult to humanity and hardly at the level of injustice of segregation. If you truly feel that speed limits should be raised and special rules applied to drivers of your high skill level than you should try to get elected to public office to enact your changes. Or organize other drivers and pressure public officials to rewrite the laws. Simply speeding and driving dangerously will do nothign but endanger you and those sharing the road with you. I don't agree with following immoral laws but a speed limit is hardly immoral or a crime against humanity.

Simply because I believe that following a law put in place in order to help safeguard everyone's safety does not make me a mindless sheep. You are completely free to speed and act like a hooligan on the road but the law is on MY side and you will be punished if caught while law abiding drivers can continue unharrased.

By believing that you can flaunt laws that are in place to protect the common good shows that you are in fact the dangerous, egotistical driver who endangers people by believing himself better and more important than those other drivers around him. You embarass your self and the BMW community while giving us all a bad name.
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      05-13-2008, 10:41 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
if we could just train some people to switch out of the passing lane (left lane on the freeway) after they're done passing, I would be a lot happier.
They should allow police to write tickets for that. Too often people cruise in the left lane and then impatient people swerve through traffic to pass them and get a few car lengths ahead. Both passing on the right and sitting in the left lane are wrong and should be subject to fines.
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      05-14-2008, 12:03 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
Well I am sure glad you commented with your well thought out and adult opinion. I am a sheep because I believe following the law is the right thing to do? You are such a rebel, speeding and drifting in your 135. Passing on the right and cutting through all the ignorant sheep driving the speed limit. Those people are so dumb! Don't they realize you are driving a BMW!!! They should move out of your way immediately!

A speed limit of 55 is no great insult to humanity and hardly at the level of injustice of segregation. If you truly feel that speed limits should be raised and special rules applied to drivers of your high skill level than you should try to get elected to public office to enact your changes. Or organize other drivers and pressure public officials to rewrite the laws. Simply speeding and driving dangerously will do nothign but endanger you and those sharing the road with you. I don't agree with following immoral laws but a speed limit is hardly immoral or a crime against humanity.

Simply because I believe that following a law put in place in order to help safeguard everyone's safety does not make me a mindless sheep. You are completely free to speed and act like a hooligan on the road but the law is on MY side and you will be punished if caught while law abiding drivers can continue unharrased.

By believing that you can flaunt laws that are in place to protect the common good shows that you are in fact the dangerous, egotistical driver who endangers people by believing himself better and more important than those other drivers around him. You embarass your self and the BMW community while giving us all a bad name.
I knew you'd miss the point, so I wonder now why I even bothered. I was responding to your generalization that ALL laws are right, and that any opinion that differs from those laws are wrong. YOU made the generalization, not me.

There are many laws that do not serve the publics interests in safety, and merely obeying the types of laws that are simply a violation of rights is dangerous, it does make you a sheep, and you'd be more at home in Communist China.

So try again, please. I didn't respond with any reference to speeding or drifting on public roads, I was addressing your generalization that all laws are right and just.

Oh, and I don't have a 135i (yet :wink
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      05-14-2008, 12:19 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
This isn't really my opinion, it is the law. That makes it the correct opinion.
In fact, it just makes it the conforming opinion, not the correct one. The law may be there, and we may have to obey it, but its existence doesn't make it correct, or the best, or relevant. :iono:


Quote:
And yes, i have on occasion kept up with traffic which resulted in exceeding the posted speed limit by a moderate amount. Everyone with a license for longer than 6 months has. I am FOR changing the laws, just not for breaking them. Especially in excessive and dangerous ways.
So as long as it's not in an excessive and dangerous way, your opposition is not very strong. That's comforting.

And as long as I've had a license for more than 6 months and/or keep up with speeding traffic, it should be ok. Doing it alone without any traffic is totally irresponsible and dangerous and I should be locked up like the rabid dog than I am.
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      05-14-2008, 01:24 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
if we could just train some people to switch out of the passing lane (left lane on the freeway) after they're done passing, I would be a lot happier.
+1
In Germany slow and fast drivers share the road well. You don’t go in the left lane unless you are passing. And when you pass it is not this 5 mph faster than the right lane car. They get business taken care of quickly and get back in the right lane. Daily I see what I call Left Lane Bandits going the exact same speed as the car in the right lane and no cars in front of them. :iono:
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      05-14-2008, 02:10 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
By believing that you an flaunt laws that are in place to protect the common good shows that you are in fact the dangerous, egotistical driver who endangers people by believing himself better and more important than those other drivers around him. You embarass your self and the BMW community while giving us all a bad name.
Just had to add one more thing. I love your assertion that simply because I question the validity of certain laws that I Am automatically a reckless person. I know this might be hard to wrap your rigid mind around, but I don't consider most laws unbreakable rules. Laws are more like good suggestions. For instance, i take the law against killing someone as a pretty darn good suggestion, but if I were to find a man brutally raping my fiancé, I wouldn't think twice about murdering him. In other words, no law is or can ever be an absolute when free-will is involved. The real sign of maturity is to take the moral principles behind the just laws as your own, and have the wisdom to know when the letter of the law doesn't constitute an outright ban on an action you may take, as long as you don't violate the rights of others.

Speeding and/or drifting on an obviously empty stretch of highway does not violate anyone else's right. It is an exercise of free-will in the face of an irrelevant law (irrevelant only when noonelse's safety is at stake, for as your own arguement asserts, is the only reason speeding laws exist)
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      05-14-2008, 02:37 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Yearofthe1 View Post
Laws are more like good suggestions. For instance, i take the law against killing someone as a pretty darn good suggestion, but if I were to find a man brutally raping my fiancé, I wouldn't think twice about murdering him. In other words, no law is or can ever be an absolute when free-will is involved. The real sign of maturity is to take the moral principles behind the just laws as your own, and have the wisdom to know when the letter of the law doesn't constitute an outright ban on an action you may take, as long as you don't violate the rights of others.
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      05-14-2008, 03:06 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by IDBMW View Post
+1
In Germany slow and fast drivers share the road well. You don’t go in the left lane unless you are passing. And when you pass it is not this 5 mph faster than the right lane car. They get business taken care of quickly and get back in the right lane. Daily I see what I call Left Lane Bandits going the exact same speed as the car in the right lane and no cars in front of them. :iono:
A few years back, I was travelling through the Canadian prairie provinces (Manitoba & Saskatchewan, IIRC). At that time, many drivers on a two lane highway with paved shoulders would automatically pull over on the right shoulder to allow a faster vehicle to pass - even though the passing vehicle could safely overtake on the left! It was really gratifying to see folks concerned with others on the road, rather than the ego driven idiocy that passes for driving on many U.S. roads.
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      05-14-2008, 03:51 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Yearofthe1 View Post
Just had to add one more thing. I love your assertion that simply because I question the validity of certain laws that I Am automatically a reckless person. I know this might be hard to wrap your rigid mind around, but I don't consider most laws unbreakable rules. Laws are more like good suggestions. For instance, i take the law against killing someone as a pretty darn good suggestion, but if I were to find a man brutally raping my fiancé, I wouldn't think twice about murdering him. In other words, no law is or can ever be an absolute when free-will is involved. The real sign of maturity is to take the moral principles behind the just laws as your own, and have the wisdom to know when the letter of the law doesn't constitute an outright ban on an action you may take, as long as you don't violate the rights of others.

Speeding and/or drifting on an obviously empty stretch of highway does not violate anyone else's right. It is an exercise of free-will in the face of an irrelevant law (irrevelant only when noonelse's safety is at stake, for as your own arguement asserts, is the only reason speeding laws exist)
The problem with speeding/drifting on an empty stretch of highway is that you can't be sure it is an empty stretch of highway. Someone hitchhiking on the side of the country road or simply crossing at the wrong time could easily be hit by your overly aggressive driving.

On a track or closed course you can go as fast as you like.

Laws are there to impose some sort of order. Is it any wonder that most countries think that Americans are arrogant pricks? BMW drivers have an even worse reputation. Picking and choosing which laws you agree to follow is idiotic, not mature. What if you really like smoking crack? Since you don't agree with that suggestion than you just go ahead and do it.

In your case of a raped wife what happens if you are wrong and kill an innocent man? Just because you believe a law is unjust doesn't mean your neighbor argees with you. Free will has nothing to do with it, it is called self control. Even if you do kill the correct rapist, if your wife was no longer in danger you would be charged with murder and rightly convicted.

If you think speeding and taking a laissez-faire attitude to traffic laws is ok what happens if your neighbor thinks the laws regarding sound violations are immoral? He can play his music loudly at 2am and while annoying it has no potential to end in a car crash that could potentially kill you. Who is more at fault?

The point of laws are to make that distinction.
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      05-14-2008, 03:55 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by IDBMW View Post
+1
In Germany slow and fast drivers share the road well. You don’t go in the left lane unless you are passing. And when you pass it is not this 5 mph faster than the right lane car. They get business taken care of quickly and get back in the right lane. Daily I see what I call Left Lane Bandits going the exact same speed as the car in the right lane and no cars in front of them. :iono:
How fast are the left lane bandits going? If the speed limit is 55mph and they are going 75mph there really is no need to pass them. Do you really really need to go 76mph?

I completely agree in the case where people cruise in the left lane at the speed limit or just above it. But if they are already speeding what is the point of speeding more? None of us are transporting people with life threatening injuries to the hospital.
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      05-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #86
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I know this is going to enrage civil liberty fans but some cars in Japan are now being outfitted with GPS enabled speed limiters that make the top speed of a vehicle only 100mph. This restriction is lifted only at approved race tracks which will allow a higher top speed.

I personally think this is a fabulous idea since no one needs to go more than 100mph on any public road. I think it should be made mandatory on anyone convicted of reckless driving or speeding at more than 90mph. Hell, i would limit their cars to 65mph just to teach them a lesson. Like drunk drivers and their breathalyzer ignition locks, some people can't help driving like dangerous road raging jerks.
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      05-14-2008, 04:57 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
I personally think this is a fabulous idea since no one needs to go more than 100mph on any public road. I think it should be made mandatory on anyone convicted of reckless driving or speeding at more than 90mph. Hell, i would limit their cars to 65mph just to teach them a lesson. Like drunk drivers and their breathalyzer ignition locks, some people can't help driving like dangerous road raging jerks.
The only other (minor) problem I see with this is that people can drive like road raging jerks even at 65mph... perhaps your device could keep them in the correct lane at the correct speed for their stated destination.

Other than that, I think you should get elected (speed?) governor in your home state and implement it.
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      05-14-2008, 07:45 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by whya1? View Post
I personally think this is a fabulous idea since no one needs to go more than 100mph on any public road. I think it should be made mandatory on anyone convicted of reckless driving or speeding at more than 90mph.


In your humble opinion...
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