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      04-13-2008, 08:32 AM   #1
edge350
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Obama "bitter" comment

What do you guys think about Obama's recent comments about small town America? (To be transparent, I like Obama).

For the comments in it's entirety, Clinton's follow-up and Obama's response:

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/356191.aspx
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      04-13-2008, 08:34 AM   #2
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See my sig - remember Obama came out of Chicago, and you don't get anywhere in Democractic circles in Chicago because you're for 'change and hope'. ; -)
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      04-13-2008, 09:07 AM   #3
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What he said was not an earth shattering comment, but it was still a dumb thing to say. To a certain extent, he is right but even then, it is one of those comments that you can't go out and campaign about.
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      04-13-2008, 09:32 AM   #4
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Hillary will milk this for all it's worth. Her only hope is if Obama makes a major mistake. I dont think this was it. She cannot catch him in delegates because of the proportional allocation.

This comment is getting alot of air play in PA now, because of the upcoming primary. Will be interesting to see how this race finally ends, because if he has more delegates and the Dem. party gives the nomination to her. There will be a lot of voters very angry.
Why wont Hillary just go away.
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      04-13-2008, 09:37 AM   #5
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it was a dumb thing to say and could be very bad for Obama... Its just the kind of slip up he did not need.
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      04-13-2008, 10:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivid View Post
it was a dumb thing to say and could be very bad for Obama... Its just the kind of slip up he did not need.
What's the slip? He's exactly right. How is recognizing that voters are bitter a bad thing? It's much better than continuing trying to blow smoke up our collective asses with more positive sounding words like "resilient".

Resilient = Capable of taking shit.
Bitter = Sick of taking shit.
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      04-13-2008, 10:20 AM   #7
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Scrappleface is up to speed (as always ; -): http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2941
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      04-13-2008, 12:34 PM   #8
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I dont see how pointing out the truth is a bad remark.. he is pointing it out to I guess say he notices and he intends to work on it
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      04-13-2008, 01:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Scrappleface is up to speed (as always ; -): http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2941
Nice! Finally, a news source I can trust. Thanks for the link, Hugo.
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      04-13-2008, 01:22 PM   #10
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In context, it was a reasonable thing to say, but perhaps poorly expressed, since Obama kind of implied that people were voting these other issues just because they were bitter. Hillary could have gotten some mileage out of it against a lesser candidate, but she's up against the Michael Jordan of Democratic politics. The guy just has too much skill.

He's a master of the counterpunch. So, in effect, it turned out to be a trap for Hillary and McCain. If you look at his response, you see he's saying things he couldn't get away with before without looking like he's going negative. But because he is responding to an attack, he can hit them hard while looking like he's just defending himself.

A brilliant way of getting things like McCain's slowness on the mortgage crisis and Hillary's vote for the bankruptcy bill out on the table. My guess is that the voters of Pennsylvania are smart enough to see that Obama's criticisms of Clinton and McCain are more powerful than their criticisms of him.
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      04-13-2008, 01:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethchan View Post
In context, it was a reasonable thing to say, but perhaps poorly expressed, since Obama kind of implied that people were voting these other issues just because they were bitter. Hillary could have gotten some mileage out of it against a lesser candidate, but she's up against the Michael Jordan of Democratic politics. The guy just has too much skill.

He's a master of the counterpunch. So, in effect, it turned out to be a trap for Hillary and McCain. If you look at his response, you see he's saying things he couldn't get away with before without looking like he's going negative. But because he is responding to an attack, he can hit them hard while looking like he's just defending himself.

A brilliant way of getting things like McCain's slowness on the mortgage crisis and Hillary's vote for the bankruptcy bill out on the table. My guess is that the voters of Pennsylvania are smart enough to see that Obama's criticisms of Clinton and McCain are more powerful than their criticisms of him.
Dont be so sure. I live in Pennsylvania and Hillary will win the primary. The question is by how much. If it is close it is a win for Obama. As I stated before the Dems went to this proportional allocation and look where its gotten them. In the biggest mess I have ever seen. Hillary wont be able to catch him in the delegate count, thats why she is jumping on any Obama mis-step. 10 primarys left and Hillary could win all ten and Obama will still have a lead. She is banking on a big blunder the swing the Super-Delegates. What a mess... lol
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      04-13-2008, 01:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethchan View Post
Hillary could have gotten some mileage out of it against a lesser candidate, but she's up against the Michael Jordan of Democratic politics. The guy just has too much skill.
Tangent: The Michael Jordan of democratic politics? I'm a fan, but that's a bit of strrrrrretch..
Michael Jordan (the brand) wasn't established until he won a few rings. Obama is a first term senator who clearly has yet to demonstrate MJ's ability to FINISH OFF his opponent.
The only thing Obama and MJ have in common is that they're black men who represent Illinois.
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      04-13-2008, 01:55 PM   #13
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The issue is not bec he said that people are bitter.
He said that people who turn to religion or support guns legislation or are anti-illegal immigration are bitter people...

If he wins the primary, he will be painted by the republicans as an elitist (already being done by McCain). This was the same way Gore and Kerry were painted. If you cannot connect with the working class, you will not win the general election. And this will be Hillary's argument why Obama is not electable...

Hillary is already going to win the primary in PA, a stupid gaffe like this will help her win resoundingly.
Just like his aide's comments to Canada about not taking NAFTA seriously. It lost him Ohio...

Quote:
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
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      04-13-2008, 02:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptan55 View Post
The issue is not bec he said that people are bitter.
He said that people who turn to religion or support guns legislation or are anti-illegal immigration are bitter people...
I almost took the comment to be slightly worse than that. He essentially said that religious people are angry and vote on certain issues purely to be bitter. The whole comments attacks religious people, in my opinion, painting us to be irrational people. And that simply isn't true.
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      04-13-2008, 02:53 PM   #15
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Here's the whole quote, including a few lines before it. Should have made it part of the original post:

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter). [...]

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
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      04-13-2008, 03:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kja325ci View Post
Hillary will milk this for all it's worth. Her only hope is if Obama makes a major mistake. I dont think this was it. She cannot catch him in delegates because of the proportional allocation.

This comment is getting alot of air play in PA now, because of the upcoming primary. Will be interesting to see how this race finally ends, because if he has more delegates and the Dem. party gives the nomination to her. There will be a lot of voters very angry.
Why wont Hillary just go away.
But is anyone with an even slightly progressive attitude going to get behind a guy like John McCain just out of a mild spite for Clinton's campaign tactics?

Not me at this point.
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      04-13-2008, 03:33 PM   #17
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Hillary Clinton, if she wins the nomination, will have a more difficult time beating John McCain in November. There are people that will not vote for her under any circumstances.

Obama can carry cross-over voters more easily. He has proven that already. But, Hillary will not quit. She will take this to the end and we will see what that does to who is left standing.

A year ago she was a shoe in for the nomination. Now she is in the fight of her life. I cant see how Obama can not get the nomination.

He had a preacher problem and bitter comment.
She said she was ducking bullets.

This is all very amusing to me.
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      04-13-2008, 05:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower View Post
The whole comments attacks religious people, in my opinion, painting us to be irrational people. And that simply isn't true.
I don't really want to go down this path here, but I have to ask just what you think is rational about religion and faith?

The problem with the quote isn't that he said "bitter", it's that he said "cling". While I believe it is the right word to use, it does have a strong negative connotation. His point was that this class of people have been so thoroughly abused and neglected by the government, that they will hold fast and strong to anything they have that hasn't yet betrayed them. These things are their faith (religion), their family (immigration issues), their rights (gun laws).

I'd love to believe that Obama did this purposefully to get the issue out on the table with Clinton and McCain. This is the sort of thing that we need to be talking about. And even if we have to piss a few people off in the process, the country will be better off for it.
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      04-13-2008, 11:26 PM   #19
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I wanted to add this, as I think it helps clarify Obama's position on the issue:



I think he does a much better job here of explaining how he sees the issues than the latest hot sound bite.
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      04-14-2008, 12:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbomg View Post
I wanted to add this, as I think it helps clarify Obama's position on the issue:



I think he does a much better job here of explaining how he sees the issues than the latest hot sound bite.
He can spin and backtrack all he wants...
For me, what he said the first time was really reflective of his attitude towards working class people. WHat he is saying now, is pure spin to try to get him out of trouble.

When you take the Rev Wright stories (now THAT is a bitter point of view), Michelle Obama's statement about this is the first time she is proud to be an American, and now his bitter comment, it shows the real man behind the facade.... An unpatriotic elitist who clings on to the race card when it is convenient for him.

I am a democrat all my life, but I will vote (and campaign) for McCain if Obama wins the primary.

PT
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      04-14-2008, 01:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbomg View Post
I don't really want to go down this path here, but I have to ask just what you think is rational about religion and faith?
Well, if you didn't "want to go down this path", why the heck did you ask the question? (damn it, what happened to the question mark smiley?)

Are you insinuating that religious people aren't rational? Because I am not making any comments about religion itself, only that religious people are not irrational or "clingy" or "bitter" with every aspect of our lives.
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      04-14-2008, 03:23 AM   #22
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Can someone explain how his comments are "elitist" The man simply said that people who have lost their jobs or had a hard time in this economy are clinging to the things that are important to them. How in the world is this an "elitist"?
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