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View Poll Results: Who will hold the highest office in the land??
Hilary Clinton 18 11.32%
Barack Obama 84 52.83%
John McCain 51 32.08%
Mitt Romney 6 3.77%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-08-2008, 08:38 AM   #67
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aaahhhhhhh......your all a bunch of liberals on this forum
I figured quoting my self would work best. yes my statement is mostly a joke and I was not trying to offend anyone. but just to clarify my views I'm mostly conservative especially on fiscal matters and relatively liberal on social matters. but I could never vote Democrat for fiscal reasons.
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      02-08-2008, 09:03 AM   #68
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Well, I'd say you are pretty liberal... :wink:


at least in avatar oversteer! :eyebulge:
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      02-08-2008, 09:41 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by watchesfromshadows View Post
Ditto.

Considered myself a right/moderate 2 years ago. Living in NW Oregon and seeing all the hashed-out hairy hippies over there made me lean to what I thought was the "conservative US common sense". The winters there drove me crazy though, and I had to move. Chose Utah, can't remember why now. After living in Mormon Land for over a year I've finally "seen the right". I can tell you that I don't care for it at all. (Never cared for the war though, for what it's worth)


I'm much more social/fiscally liberal now. It just makes more sense -to me at least.

-PS: Prediction: Obama wins 08' (wide margin)
We shall see. :smile: This quote resonates with me: "But it is only when you take several large steps back into the long past that the full logic of an Obama presidency stares directly—and uncomfortably—at you"

From what I've read, Obama and Gore have been speaking frequently for the past weeks. An endorsement from him would send Obama over the top. I'm not sure if he would do it though. It would be the biggest slap to the Clinton's face. I dont recall Bill aiding in Gore's campaign though.
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      02-08-2008, 09:51 AM   #70
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I dont recall Bill aiding in Gore's campaign though.
True, but Bill wasn't viewed as squeaky clean during the time when Gore was campaigning. Monika Lewinski thing was within a year or two of then, and was fresh in people's minds. I wouldn't doubt that Al and Tipper passed on Bill's nod of approval.
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      02-08-2008, 09:56 AM   #71
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From what I've read, Obama and Gore have been speaking frequently for the past weeks. An endorsement from him would send Obama over the top.
If there is anything that has been consistent this election year it is that endorsements have really done next to nothing for the candidates.

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Originally Posted by watchesfromshadows
Chose Utah, can't remember why now. After living in Mormon Land for over a year I've finally "seen the right". I can tell you that I don't care for it at all. (Never cared for the war though, for what it's worth)
Where in Utah did you move?
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      02-08-2008, 11:23 AM   #72
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Looks like the poll needs updating since Romney bailed out.
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      02-08-2008, 12:53 PM   #73
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If there is anything that has been consistent this election year it is that endorsements have really done next to nothing for the candidates.

Where in Utah did you move?
Wow, I have to disagree with you. How do you think the endorsements of Oprah Winfrey and Ted Kennedy did not have an effect??? Yes its sad that they have that kind of power but it would be foolish to ignore it. You have to remember that not everyone is smart and educated. When influencial people endorse candidates some people listen. I will agree that the majority of endorsements are rubbish.
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      02-08-2008, 01:45 PM   #74
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SR08NOVA -- Why the need to label people?

Your tactic in your last post was to label people with names, so that you can assign stuff on people that they might or might not actually believe. Nobody has said anything about Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid. You have no right to assume what any of our positions are on Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid just because of some label you want to put on us.

You talk like people are a bunch of sheep that all get herded into "either liberal, conservative, or I suppose libertarian" pens, and everyone must be exactly the same in each pen you herd them into with your labels.

I reject that completely, as I expect most others on the board do too.

Label wars remind me of tuner wars. Just say no!

Ugh.
No one has been 'herded into a pen’. I asked Onehots2k to define what he meant by being an Independent, because this is a party/voting designation and not a political philosophy. I see this claim all the time from people with no true core values who just want to ride the fence and exploit the latest pop culture cause or hop on the bandwagon of an opinion poll. Yes, much like the Clintons do and did.

It is truly comical to watch the left run from the term 'liberal' by re-inventing themselves as 'progressive' or some other title du jour. Maybe they're embarrassed by decades of failed policies that haven't solved one societal ill but have sadly created generations of dependents and a complete reliance on the nanny state.

Even better is their fondness for being deemed as 'open-minded'. Hmmm….so I guess that would make conservatives what....close-minded? The arrogance and elitist mentality are astounding.

You took completely non-targeted comments as a personal attack but shouldn't have. I never assumed anyone’s position on entitlement programs. I cited these big handouts to point out the absurd and naive notion of 'fiscally conservative but socially liberal'. This idealism is pure fantasy; it’s neither budgetarily feasible nor philosophically compatible.

Okay, so perhaps ‘socially liberal’ refers to abortion, gay-rights, gun control, and the man-made global warming hoax, but in my mind, these are selfish pet concerns that pale in comparison with far more critical federal issues such as the economy, energy, immigration, and terrorism.
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      02-08-2008, 02:08 PM   #75
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No one has been 'herded into a pen’. I asked Onehots2k to define what he meant by being an Independent, because this is a party/voting designation and not a political philosophy. I see this claim all the time from people with no true core values who just want to ride the fence and exploit the latest pop culture cause or hop on the bandwagon of an opinion poll. Yes, much like the Clintons do and did.

It is truly comical to watch the left run from the term 'liberal' by re-inventing themselves as 'progressive' or some other title du jour. Maybe they're embarrassed by decades of failed policies that haven't solved one societal ill but have sadly created generations of dependents and a complete reliance on the nanny state.

Even better is their fondness for being deemed as 'open-minded'. Hmmm….so I guess that would make conservatives what....close-minded? The arrogance and elitist mentality are astounding.

You took completely non-targeted comments as a personal attack but shouldn't have. I never assumed anyone’s position on entitlement programs. I cited these big handouts to point out the absurd and naive notion of 'fiscally conservative but socially liberal'. This idealism is pure fantasy; it’s neither budgetarily feasible nor philosophically compatible.

Okay, so perhaps ‘socially liberal’ refers to abortion, gay-rights, gun control, and the man-made global warming hoax, but in my mind, these are selfish pet concerns that pale in comparison with far more critical federal issues such as the economy, energy, immigration, and terrorism.
My apologies. I must have missed where you had asked me what it meant. First of all, who are you to say that I'm riding a fence and exploiting the lastest pop culture? I'm a registered independent b/c I agree with some principles of both the Democratic and Republican party. Even if an independent ran for President he/she would not get my vote. Not this late in the political game. I really dont feel the need to divulge my personal core values on the this site. That dosent mean they wont sneak out from time to time.
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      02-08-2008, 02:11 PM   #76
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My apologies. I must have missed where you had asked me what it meant. First of all, who are you to say that I'm riding a fence and exploiting the lastest pop culture? I'm a registered independent b/c I agree with some principles of both the Democratic and Republican party. Even if an independent ran for President he/she would not get my vote. Not this late in the political game. I really dont feel the need to divulge my personal core values on the this site. That dosent mean they wont sneak out from time to time.
I never said YOU were riding the fence. I said I've seen this in others, so I was curious what the Independent designation meant for you. No offense implied or intended.
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      02-08-2008, 02:15 PM   #77
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I never said YOU were riding the fence. I said I've seen this in others, so I was curious what the Independent designation meant for you. No offense implied or intended.
Ahh..okay. :w00t: I looked waay too much into that. But I do agree with you on that. Some do ride the fence. Fortunately it helps my cause while it makes them ignorant.
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      02-08-2008, 03:30 PM   #78
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If there is anything that has been consistent this election year it is that endorsements have really done next to nothing for the candidates.

Where in Utah did you move?
-Morgan, UT

50 miles, "as the crow flies" NE of Salt Lake City...wish I moved there (SLC) instead, but it really wasn't up to me. Dealing with a major anxiety issue. Moved here with my dad....fortunately he doesn't like it that much here either, so Ive been trying to get him to move to the bay area. Lots of race tracks, beautiful countryside, diverse culture(s)...even if we don't agree with all of 'em, it's better than being outcasts in our own neighborhood.
(I know, TME)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, still not an actual Democrat. I like to keep my mind open more, you never know who's going to be up for the 2012 elections, if they have a good message, they'll get my vote. I'm not loyal to any one ideology.

BTW I based my Obama prediction on his ability to capture red state votes, his ever increasing following, and the seemingly fractured republican base. There seems to be a lot of polarized opinions regarding Sen. McCain. Not a Hillary fan, but Id vote Obama even if she got the VP ticket.
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      02-08-2008, 06:03 PM   #79
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Wow, I have to disagree with you. How do you think the endorsements of Oprah Winfrey and Ted Kennedy did not have an effect??? Yes its sad that they have that kind of power but it would be foolish to ignore it. You have to remember that not everyone is smart and educated. When influencial people endorse candidates some people listen. I will agree that the majority of endorsements are rubbish.
OK, you got me. Oprah was a good endorsement (though, not surprising). Ted Kennedy, absolutely not. The amount of people that would have been swayed by Ted Kennedy's endorsement are the sort of people that would have made up their mind before he endorsed.
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      02-08-2008, 07:29 PM   #80
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OK, you got me. Oprah was a good endorsement (though, not surprising). Ted Kennedy, absolutely not. The amount of people that would have been swayed by Ted Kennedy's endorsement are the sort of people that would have made up their mind before he endorsed.
I agree. What's more, the people who would be swayed by his endorsement are the type that would have already made up their minds FOR Hillary Clinton. I think it was a miscalculation. His endorsement makes it easier for her to say that she's "no longer the establishment canidate".

As far as my status as an independent, there are far too many nut-jobs in both parties for me to be a member of either. I mean, there is a large base of the Republican party that doesn't believe in EVOLUTION! There shall be no religious test for public office... but I'm all for an IQ test. There are Democrats that are actually FOR Illegal Imigration, and others who honestly think it's a good idea to immediately pull all of our troops out of Iraq...

The far left, and the far right are exactly what's wrong with this country, and the primary system. The most extreme of the extreme shouldn't have a role in picking a president for a centrist nation.

On another note, I'd entirely dissagree that Global Warming is a "hoax". Certainly there's sound science on both sides of the issue, but treating it as a hoax is to ignore a lot of solid scientific evidence, and is a very risky position. Even if humans AREN'T directly responsible for global warming, I think it's foolish to NOT cut back on polution. It frankly doesn't do any HARM to cut back on pollution, and it has the possibility to do some good.

I would agree that oceanic polution is a much bigger environmental issue, seeing as it deals directly with our oxygen supply, which is CLEARLY critical for out survival.
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      02-09-2008, 11:53 AM   #81
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Too many have bought into the mainstream media's campaigns to villify the right by portraying the GOP as a party controlled by and filled with scary, knuckle-dragging, religious kooks. Check the numbers and the reality is that evangelicals are a very tiny slice of the party, and many of those, while supporting the belief in God and original creation, do not deny the science of evolution.

The hard core left and right aren't getting their choices (Dennis Kucinich and Duncan Hunter, for example), so I'd say the primary system is working just fine, if you believe that centrist is what is needed. This is debatable.

No one denies the Earth has warmed, but let's consider the facts. It is estimated that the total increase in average global temperature for the 20th century was only about 0.50 degrees Celsius. The delusion is that man has somehow caused this and can somehow change it, but there's no evidence to support it, except junk science. Follow the money: this is a con-job supported by third world thugs at the UN who are demanding that wealthier nations bear the brunt of this expense and responsibility, while gross polluters like China are exempted. No one should needlessly pollute and we should all be good stewards of the planet. But the 'man-made' part of climate change is a swindle, and it amounts to nothing more than a shakedown of prosperous nations. It relies on making them feel guility about their achievements relative to others. Sorry, I don't buy this BS.
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      02-09-2008, 09:36 PM   #82
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I was thinking about something today and it leads to another question for likely Democrat voters. Clearly, the Republicans have found their candidate and can now start preparing for their push for the White House. While there are certain problems with McCain and the current state of the party, the Democrats are all up in the air with their candidates. The Democrats are equally divided between Obama and Clinton. The question then becomes: if Obama wins the nomination, who will Clinton supporters vote for (and vice-versa)? Surely most will go to the Democrat nominee but, for instance (seeing as there are a lot of Obama supporters here), would you vote for Clinton? For the sake of argumentation, ignore the VP candidate. I think I already know where onehots2k stands, but I think this scenario is something that will put the Dems in a worse situation going into the final push for the WH.
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      02-10-2008, 04:09 AM   #83
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my vote: If not Obama: Hillary.

Not my top choice, but none the less.


-I honestly don't have much of an intellectually driven explanation (or reason). I just get an unpleasant taste in my mouth when it comes to Republican politicians. Not because of my " twenty-something, artistic..." demographic, but because I've found I wholly disagree with so many Rep. statements/ points of view I've heard over the last year. Polar opposite of how I used to feel.

-BTW, just throwing this out here, but does anybody else notice an "Emperor Palpatine" vibe coming McCain? (not a statement about his policies/demeanor, just a slight -semi humorous- Sith Lord resemblance)

-not that I get any toasty feelings about Hillary..... kind of like a walking wax sculpture with "power hungry" vibes



-sleep deprived, 2:00 AM+
please interpret as a half-awake attempt at humorous opinion, I'm just too damn tired.
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      02-10-2008, 08:18 AM   #84
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I've voted Republican in the past, but the Bush regime scares me. I'm in Obama's camp but would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat if that's the way it goes. I want the Republicans out.
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      02-10-2008, 10:33 AM   #85
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I've voted Republican in the past, but the Bush regime scares me. I'm in Obama's camp but would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat if that's the way it goes. I want the Republicans out.
I agree. I will vote for Senator Clinton if need be.
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      02-10-2008, 01:29 PM   #86
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Too many have bought into the mainstream media's campaigns to villify the right by portraying the GOP as a party controlled by and filled with scary, knuckle-dragging, religious kooks.
You complain about those who vilify "the right".

But you clearly think it is just fine to vilify "the left", as shown in this post YOU made vilifying "the left" just hours before you complained about "the right" being vilified.

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It is truly comical to watch the left run from the term 'liberal' by re-inventing themselves as 'progressive' or some other title du jour. Maybe they're embarrassed by decades of failed policies that haven't solved one societal ill but have sadly created generations of dependents and a complete reliance on the nanny state.
Pot, meet kettle...
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      02-10-2008, 03:30 PM   #87
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You complain about those who vilify "the right".

But you clearly think it is just fine to vilify "the left", as shown in this post YOU made vilifying "the left" just hours before you complained about "the right" being vilified.



Pot, meet kettle...

Any reasonable and learned person would draw a clear distinction between how the liberally-biased mainstream media has relentously painted Republicans as gun-toting, Bible-thumping, racist, biggots, homophobes, and war-mongers versus my assessment of the left's social policy failures.

Sorry, but unfair characterizations and personal attacks hardly equate to evaluating historical courses of action and outcomes.
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      02-10-2008, 03:48 PM   #88
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Lets keep this potentialy volatile subject respectful of each other's opinions please.
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