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View Poll Results: Who's the next pres?
Hilary Clinton 34 29.57%
Barack Obama 36 31.30%
Rudy Guiliani 11 9.57%
Fred Thompson 4 3.48%
John McCain 9 7.83%
John Edwards 3 2.61%
Other 18 15.65%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-07-2008, 03:50 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Khobin~ View Post
That said, there's got to be some back-water hillibilies wiping their eyes with their white hoods to see a "black" man and a woman as the favorites to win...
Probably because they are annoyed that they are only there because of their race and sex. If Obama was white, he would not be a potential nominee.
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      01-07-2008, 05:54 PM   #46
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Probably because they are annoyed that they are only there because of their race and sex. If Obama was white, he would not be a potential nominee.
Absolutely right!
The Democratic party is so wrapped up in trying to shove a disadvantaged minority down the public's throat, they have completely lost site of running a candidate that is qualified, or that is actually electable!
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      01-07-2008, 06:56 PM   #47
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Probably because they are annoyed that they are only there because of their race and sex. If Obama was white, he would not be a potential nominee.
Lol...why do think that was?

Personnaly, from what little I've followed the US election, it seems that both of them are very charismatic. Hilary has a following due to having been the first lady(not sure what her actual politics are), and Obama has really appealed to the younger crowd, being a younger, out-going candiate.

Maybe the fact of race/sex has something to do with for some people, but perhaps so just see them as not being the "typical" politican.

As I said, I haven't really looked into what their campaigns are based on, but they seem far more personable then most of the other candiates.
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      01-07-2008, 06:59 PM   #48
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Absolutely right!
The Democratic party is so wrapped up in trying to shove a disadvantaged minority down the public's throat, they have completely lost site of running a candidate that is qualified, or that is actually electable!
What makes either of them not qualified?...They can write, or at least read, in complete sentences/thoughts...unlike the current Prez.
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      01-07-2008, 08:27 PM   #49
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What makes either of them not qualified?...They can write, or at least read, in complete sentences/thoughts...unlike the current Prez.
...that was original.
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      01-07-2008, 08:55 PM   #50
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What makes either of them not qualified?...They can write, or at least read, in complete sentences/thoughts...unlike the current Prez.
Haha!! I agree.
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      01-07-2008, 11:03 PM   #51
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i cant believe Hillary cried today.

so sad








not for her but for the democratic party



go rudy!
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      01-07-2008, 11:14 PM   #52
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i cant believe Hillary cried today.

so sad








not for her but for the democratic party



go rudy!
Not for the democratic party. Sad for Hilary Clinton.
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      01-12-2008, 07:44 AM   #53
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When Edwards drops out I look for his +or-17% to go to Obama. Republicans play the "muslim card" and squeak out another win. YOMV
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      01-12-2008, 11:42 PM   #54
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IMO the Republicans are done after the Bush disaster for another 8 years. They only have two canidates that can compete with Obama in my book, Ron Paul, and McCain, and I doubt either will get the nomination. Even if they do, I think the Democratic canidate could just pull the "I'm less affiliated with W" card, and win. I think his presidency will go down as one of the worst in the history of our nation, especially if things in Iraq take as long to resolve as I think they will.

The Republican party is starting to turn more and more into a party that panders to religious extremists, really scary. I'm worried within 20 years or so, we'll end up with a theocracy, the way a lot of these newer republicans are talking. The moment a politician allows their view on religion/mythology/fables/etc to influence their vote, is the moment our system has failed.

It's kind of funny, now a days, the Rebulicans are so far to the left it's frightening, and the Democrats are leaning more right than anything else.
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      01-12-2008, 11:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by E82TT6 View Post
IMO the Republicans are done after the Bush disaster for another 8 years. They only have two canidates that can compete with Obama in my book, Ron Paul, and McCain, and I doubt either will get the nomination. Even if they do, I think the Democratic canidate could just pull the "I'm less affiliated with W" card, and win. I think his presidency will go down as one of the worst in the history of our nation, especially if things in Iraq take as long to resolve as I think they will.

The Republican party is starting to turn more and more into a party that panders to religious extremists, really scary. I'm worried within 20 years or so, we'll end up with a theocracy, the way a lot of these newer republicans are talking. The moment a politician allows their view on religion/mythology/fables/etc to influence their vote, is the moment our system has failed.

It's kind of funny, now a days, the Rebulicans are so far to the left it's frightening, and the Democrats are leaning more right than anything else.


Sorry, I don't really mean to be rude but totally disagree with your analysis. If you think that the Democrat's obsession with government spending is them "leaning more right", then you might want to consult the conservative rule book. :wink:
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      01-13-2008, 12:59 AM   #56
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When Edwards drops out I look for his +or-17% to go to Obama. Republicans play the "muslim card" and squeak out another win. YOMV
I expect the 17% to go to Obama. His supporters cant stand Hilary.
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      01-13-2008, 12:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Sorry, I don't really mean to be rude but totally disagree with your analysis. If you think that the Democrat's obsession with government spending is them "leaning more right", then you might want to consult the conservative rule book. :wink:
I'm only comparing them to the old school conservatives. Compare government spending durning the Bush administration to the Clinton, or his father. These "neo-cons" are more neo, and less con. That's my point.

I have no doubt McCain or Ron Paul would be on the right track in that regard, but if someone like Romney gets the nod, I wouldn't look for too much "small government" type stuff.

Beyond that, look at policies. If W is a ruler by which to measure the neo-cons, then I don't think you can categorize anything they're for as "conservative". Our foreign policy has been absolutely radical. We invaded a sovereign nation without cause, and are now engaging in what will indubitably turn out to be one of the most protracted nation building efforts in our history. This administration's civil policies have been often scandelous in their crooked and radical nature. The number of civil liberties that have been compromised by this administration also puts them much more in the "far left", IMO.

I should say that I consider myself more of a libretarian, or construstionist than anything else, and I find the Republican parties recent movements away from conservatism to be a bit disturbing. That's where a lot of my opinions come from, and I certainly don't mean to ofend anyone. I just think a lot of Americans are getting hoodwinked into thinking that the Republican party of today, is the same as the Republican party of Abe Licoln, or TR. The "neo-con" movement has, in my opinion, butchered the meaning of conservatism, with their policies of big spending, radical social changes, and highly aggressive unjustified foreign actions.

It makes me worry for the future. You know have the possibility of someone like Huckaby, who wasn't even aware that the latest Nat'l Intelligence Estimate stated that Iran's nuclear program was non-existant, discontinued several years ago becoming the next president.

I like McCain and Ron Paul, but the rest of these guys are just way too RINO for me. You just have to watch the debates to get the feeling of it. Questions about the literal interpretation of the Bible? Constitutional Amendments to TAKE AWAY people's right (gay marriage/civil union)... This is NOT my Daddys Republican party.

That's the point I'm try to make, I appologize for typos/gramatical errors/etc, I'm home with the flu right now, and a bit cloudy headed.


PS: I know we're supposed to keep these kind of overly-opinionated posts to a minimum in this thread, so I'm sorry if I stirred up a bee-hive my long winded diatribes against modern conservatism :-p
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      01-13-2008, 04:15 PM   #58
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^^Very well thought out.

I'm almost positive if Oprah goes campaigning for Obama he would win. Awkward yes...but probably not far from the truth. For 20yrs she has stayed quite neutral. A smart move for a business person. But now I guess she figures she has nothing to lose. I mean she's worth 1.6 billion. It cant be hard making mortgage payments on that 50million dollar house...lol

I find it interesting that John Kerry endorses Obama also. It seems as if everything is aligning in his favor. But in the end it boils down to the votes. I guess we shall see.
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      01-13-2008, 08:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82TT6 View Post
I'm only comparing them to the old school conservatives. Compare government spending durning the Bush administration to the Clinton, or his father. These "neo-cons" are more neo, and less con. That's my point.

I have no doubt McCain or Ron Paul would be on the right track in that regard, but if someone like Romney gets the nod, I wouldn't look for too much "small government" type stuff.

Beyond that, look at policies. If W is a ruler by which to measure the neo-cons, then I don't think you can categorize anything they're for as "conservative". Our foreign policy has been absolutely radical. We invaded a sovereign nation without cause, and are now engaging in what will indubitably turn out to be one of the most protracted nation building efforts in our history. This administration's civil policies have been often scandelous in their crooked and radical nature. The number of civil liberties that have been compromised by this administration also puts them much more in the "far left", IMO.

I should say that I consider myself more of a libretarian, or construstionist than anything else, and I find the Republican parties recent movements away from conservatism to be a bit disturbing. That's where a lot of my opinions come from, and I certainly don't mean to ofend anyone. I just think a lot of Americans are getting hoodwinked into thinking that the Republican party of today, is the same as the Republican party of Abe Licoln, or TR. The "neo-con" movement has, in my opinion, butchered the meaning of conservatism, with their policies of big spending, radical social changes, and highly aggressive unjustified foreign actions.

It makes me worry for the future. You know have the possibility of someone like Huckaby, who wasn't even aware that the latest Nat'l Intelligence Estimate stated that Iran's nuclear program was non-existant, discontinued several years ago becoming the next president.

I like McCain and Ron Paul, but the rest of these guys are just way too RINO for me. You just have to watch the debates to get the feeling of it. Questions about the literal interpretation of the Bible? Constitutional Amendments to TAKE AWAY people's right (gay marriage/civil union)... This is NOT my Daddys Republican party.

That's the point I'm try to make, I appologize for typos/gramatical errors/etc, I'm home with the flu right now, and a bit cloudy headed.


PS: I know we're supposed to keep these kind of overly-opinionated posts to a minimum in this thread, so I'm sorry if I stirred up a bee-hive my long winded diatribes against modern conservatism :-p
Sorry if it takes me a little time to respond to this post. My current schedule greatly hinders any online time that I can enjoy. Regardless, it's great to see thoughtful presentation of thoughts. Its refreshing to every now and again passionately disagree on substantive issues without killing each other.
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      01-13-2008, 09:04 PM   #60
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It is great that this political thread has been so courteous. Maybe it's that people understand that political viewpoints are very personal. In any case, I'm keeping a close eye on it.
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      01-13-2008, 09:24 PM   #61
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It is great that this political thread has been so courteous. Maybe it's that people understand that political viewpoints are very personal. In any case, I'm keeping a close eye on it.
I'm proud that we all have been courteous too! We Rock.
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      01-14-2008, 04:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82TT6 View Post
I'm only comparing them to the old school conservatives. Compare government spending durning the Bush administration to the Clinton, or his father. These "neo-cons" are more neo, and less con. That's my point.

I have no doubt McCain or Ron Paul would be on the right track in that regard, but if someone like Romney gets the nod, I wouldn't look for too much "small government" type stuff.

Beyond that, look at policies. If W is a ruler by which to measure the neo-cons, then I don't think you can categorize anything they're for as "conservative". Our foreign policy has been absolutely radical. We invaded a sovereign nation without cause, and are now engaging in what will indubitably turn out to be one of the most protracted nation building efforts in our history. This administration's civil policies have been often scandelous in their crooked and radical nature. The number of civil liberties that have been compromised by this administration also puts them much more in the "far left", IMO.

I should say that I consider myself more of a libretarian, or construstionist than anything else, and I find the Republican parties recent movements away from conservatism to be a bit disturbing. That's where a lot of my opinions come from, and I certainly don't mean to ofend anyone. I just think a lot of Americans are getting hoodwinked into thinking that the Republican party of today, is the same as the Republican party of Abe Licoln, or TR. The "neo-con" movement has, in my opinion, butchered the meaning of conservatism, with their policies of big spending, radical social changes, and highly aggressive unjustified foreign actions.

It makes me worry for the future. You know have the possibility of someone like Huckaby, who wasn't even aware that the latest Nat'l Intelligence Estimate stated that Iran's nuclear program was non-existant, discontinued several years ago becoming the next president.

I like McCain and Ron Paul, but the rest of these guys are just way too RINO for me. You just have to watch the debates to get the feeling of it. Questions about the literal interpretation of the Bible? Constitutional Amendments to TAKE AWAY people's right (gay marriage/civil union)... This is NOT my Daddys Republican party.

That's the point I'm try to make, I appologize for typos/gramatical errors/etc, I'm home with the flu right now, and a bit cloudy headed.


PS: I know we're supposed to keep these kind of overly-opinionated posts to a minimum in this thread, so I'm sorry if I stirred up a bee-hive my long winded diatribes against modern conservatism :-p
very well said! although im hoping obama wins the whole thing, if it had to be a republican i sure do hope its ron paul for the very reasons you listed. kinda hard, in this day and age, to classify oneself to either party really as so many of the ideals of each are being stretched and skewed
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      01-14-2008, 11:41 AM   #63
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I think we have a very mature base here on these forums. It's always good to be able to disagree with someone completely, without being disrespectful.

I think it bodes well for the future of these forums.
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      01-14-2008, 02:24 PM   #64
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This has got to be the FIRST polictical thread I have ever read that didnt go south.

Bravo guys... I guess theres a lot to be said for BMW owners hehe
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      01-14-2008, 02:37 PM   #65
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I expect the 17% to go to Obama. His supporters cant stand Hilary.
The problem is that Edwards won't withdraw until at least after super-duper Tuesday. Depending upon what happens on that day, it may be too late for Obama to catch up in the states that are left.
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      01-14-2008, 02:44 PM   #66
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The problem is that Edwards won't withdraw until at least after super-duper Tuesday. Depending upon what happens on that day, it may be too late for Obama to catch up in the states that are left.
Your absolutely right. The Democratic ticket will either be Obama/Clinton, or Clinton/Obama. Edwards is a smart man and needs to think this through. There is no way in HELL he is going to get higher than either of them on Super Tuesday. He needs to make a deal. The only chance Obama has is if more from Edwards camp see the writing on the wall. I do find it weird that Kerry endorsed Obama though. That would have been a nice boost for Edwards.
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