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      11-01-2007, 09:59 AM   #89
gbent
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As for voting for Socialist medicine and other liberal views, that are part of some Presidential Candidate's views... The Government does not exsist to take care of you, only to protect and govern!

Read the United States Constitution some time!
Hey, there is something you & I agree about!
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      11-01-2007, 10:30 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by ARES45 View Post
What are you doing in Lincoln to make that Sigma if you don't mind me asking? I am from Nebraska and just curious. Are you on a waiting list there or is there not enough interest?
I have no proof, but i would imagine a 100k+ goes a long way in Nebraska....I wonder what you could buy house-wise for 250k?property taxes?....from whhat I read, Lincoln's a nice place to live (apart from the cold harsh winters)
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      11-01-2007, 10:44 AM   #91
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Lincoln is a great place to live, unless you hate the Cornhuskers and weather that changes on a dime. 250k gets you a good house in Nebraska. Last I heard, Warren Buffet's house was somewhere in the range of 250-750.
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      11-01-2007, 10:54 AM   #92
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the only car you can really afford is one you pay for with cash.

if you want to be wealthy (someday), make a policy of never buying depreciating items with credit. period. another good rule is to not buy a house that is more than twice your gross pretax income.

that having been said, i'd guess that i am somewhat older than the expected average age of the 135i owner, at 40. fwiw, i can afford pretty much whatever, but i don't like cars being a significant part of my expenses.
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      11-01-2007, 10:57 AM   #93
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Where are you in Alabama R32, and do you know who you will deal with if you get a 1?
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      11-01-2007, 11:00 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
As for voting for Socialist medicine and other liberal views, that are part of some Presidential Candidate's views... The Government does not exsist to take care of you, only to protect and govern!
uh, there is a big difference between a program of socialized medicine and a bridge that helps the uninsured receive critical healthcare....the government exists to protect it's people, yes, but in other ways besides averting terrorism....illnesses and death of the uninsured is a shameful thing while we spend billions in Iraq enriching Cheney's "deferred compensation plan" from Halliburton(the no bid contractor), while our brave men and women come home armless and legless...fighting a war so we can exert our authority and establish a presence in the middle east, while not even our allies in the region want us there now(except Israel, yet you should research why our evangelical christian president is a 'friend' of Israel-chilling stuff)...not so coincidentally, in the span of 6 years, the United States has lost so much credibility with other countries it's mind boggling...anti American sentiment is at an alltime high....why is that?....keep smiling and waving as you board that plane after another 'do nothing' trip Condi......

...make no mistake,illness and death of the uninsured and underinsured costs our economy dearly in lost production....socialized medicine IMO is a dismal failure in Canada and UK....it's a horrendous drain on their economies, costs taxpayers an arm and a leg,all while patients have to wait months for the simplest of procedures.

'Other liberal views'.....yeah, like giving gay men and women the same rights and benefits afforded other married couples...such an outrage to consider that 2 men could love and commit to each other equally as a man and a woman could....but then again, the republican party, hijacked by the far right, thinks that homosexuality is a choice and can be "cured" like some disease......

Historians very often surprise me when they rate former presidents. For example, LBJ is widely considered "near great" even though he escalated the Vietnam war almost singlehandedly....Historians will have no problem rating GWB.....

his legacy:"mission accomplished"..... "Brownie, youre doing a heck of a job"... "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.
I was able to get a sense of his soul.He's a man deeply committed" .... "axis of evil"
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      11-01-2007, 11:12 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by R32 View Post
the only car you can really afford is one you pay for with cash.

if you want to be wealthy (someday), make a policy of never buying depreciating items with credit. period. another good rule is to not buy a house that is more than twice your gross pretax income.

that having been said, i'd guess that i am somewhat older than the expected average age of the 135i owner, at 40. fwiw, i can afford pretty much whatever, but i don't like cars being a significant part of my expenses.
actually, many of the wealthiest 'dont finance a depreciating asset' espousers settle for a slightly used car....
I'm 40 as well, and at 5.5%, I'll be financing the car 60 months, no $ down.....that money will be used in an investment vehicle earning more than the 5.5% over that 60 month period....i dont care about being upside down at any point since we will have the car for at least 10 years...so, while I agree with you on principal, how many people have the $ to plunk down 40k, while still having a healthy cash emergency fund equaling 6 months income.......?also, buying a house only 2x gross income is very conservative....you think thats realistic?even in a depressed housing market where bargains are to be found,you think someone earning 100k could find a property for only 200k in a major city or suburb?.....that doesnt buy you much here in S FL .....
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      11-01-2007, 01:10 PM   #96
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I couldn't buy the house I'm in now which I bought 9 years ago for 2x my household income and my salary has doubled in the past 9 years. And we are not talking big, 1 car garage and about 1700 sq ft (not including living space in the basement).

Housing has sky rocketed to the point it eats up as much as 50% of a families income. If I were to move today to a slightly larger/newer home in my area with similar amenities I would triple my existing mortgage.
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      11-01-2007, 03:31 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd View Post
I couldn't buy the house I'm in now which I bought 9 years ago for 2x my household income and my salary has doubled in the past 9 years. And we are not talking big, 1 car garage and about 1700 sq ft (not including living space in the basement).

Housing has sky rocketed to the point it eats up as much as 50% of a families income. If I were to move today to a slightly larger/newer home in my area with similar amenities I would triple my existing mortgage.
true. Housing is, over the long term, a sensible investment, even if you have to slightly over extend yourself financially earlier in life to buy a home. Purchasing a home builds equity, which builds wealth, keeps you from throwing $ out the window as a renter, saves you vs renting through lucrative tax breaks....

Overextending yourself financially to buy a BMW is just stupidity....
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      11-01-2007, 03:38 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by ARES45 View Post
I don't think Senator Clinton would be a bad President, I just know that I haven't met one member of our military personally that supports her. Times were extremely bad for the military during the last Clinton Era, but that is something the general pub never really knows. I am sure she will do a lot of good things in many areas, but I for one would prefer to fight the fights that need fighting and would appreciate being provided the means to do so. I'm not saying getting into Iraq was a great move, but we got to live the situation were in, not the one we would like to be in.
in a post 9/11 world, Democrat or (God forbid another) Republican President, IMO you'll have a job....you are highly skilled....
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      11-01-2007, 04:04 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
If you make about $45 ~ $60k a year and are financially responsible, you should be able to afford a $30,ooo car...!

Everyone situation is different, taxes, housing and disposible income all need to be considered.



As for voting for Socialist medicine and other liberal views, that are part of some Presidential Candidate's views... The Government does not exsist to take care of you, only to protect and govern!

Read the United States Constitution some time!
$45000 / 12 months = gross monthly income $3750 less 25% Fed tax bracket (single) less 6.2% SS = $2580.00 - I took mercy and assumed the 128 driver lives in a state without state or city taxes....

$30,000 less 10% down = $27000 over 48 months at a very nice rate of 6.5% = $640.00

so, without insurance, this car will cost the $45k wage earner 25% of their take home pay if they live in a state without state income taxes.....a youngish driver would expect to pay conservatively $1500 a year for insurance, so total $765....so 30% of take home pay for a car....

this leaves $1815 for housing, food, clothing, gas,investments and all other expenses.....

lets see...a renter would expect to pay conservatively $900 a month for a decent 2 bedroom apt, food and entertainment, $600 per month, clothing $50, gas $200 a month rounded (assuming 1250 miles per month driven /20 miles per gal x 3.10 per gall 93 oct)...that leaves $50 for investments, emergencies, any other insurance, including health insurance or AFLAC, electric, water, (I included cable or satellite in entertainment), cellphone, home phone et al

real affordable.....
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      11-01-2007, 05:34 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO View Post
I have no proof, but i would imagine a 100k+ goes a long way in Nebraska....I wonder what you could buy house-wise for 250k?property taxes?....from whhat I read, Lincoln's a nice place to live (apart from the cold harsh winters)
I've actually only very recently moved to Lincoln. I was in the DFW area of Texas for a little while. And you'd probably be surprised -- money doesn't go as far here as it does there. Property costs a good 25% more, food prices are higher, gas prices are very high, taxes are friggin' outrageous (Texas is one of the lowest-tax places to live in the nation, Nebraska actually one of the highest). All-in-all, I'd say my purchasing power is a good 15% less here in than it was in Texas.

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if you want to be wealthy (someday), make a policy of never buying depreciating items with credit. period. another good rule is to not buy a house that is more than twice your gross pretax income.
Well, I'm a fervent believer in using other people's money whenever it's cheaper than using my own.

I can use my own money and easily make 10% on it in a year. In fact my annualized return on investments from the past 5 years is 27%. Now, I know that statistically-speaking that is bound to reverse or at least trend way down. But it should average out to something in the 8-10% range over time.

Considering that I can borrow money for a car in the 5% range, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me to use my own cash when I can use someone's else's while keeping mine to earn me money. As a matter of fact, given my return on investments, instead of paying $40,000 cash for a car, I can make the payments just off the interest I'm earning on that money in my portfolio. So, essentially, that car is "free".

If I went and paid cash, not only do I lose the $40,000, I also lose the earnings on that $40,000. If I had paid $40,000 cash for a BMW 5 years go I would have lost $92,000 in earnings that $40,000 generated me over that same time period. $132,000 is a lot of money for a BMW.

It is of course a guessing game. You don't always net a return on your investments. But, generally speaking, it's not terribly difficult to exceed the interest rate on the car. In fact, thesedays you can get high-interest savings accounts that will net you about what you'd pay in interest on a car loan. That way you're still borrowing the money for "free" (since it's earning you what you're paying in interest) but you've also still got the $40,000 in the bank in case a rainy day comes along and you really need that cash.

Quote:
What are you doing in Lincoln to make that Sigma if you don't mind me asking?
I've worn a lot of hats in a short number of years but I essentially do mechanical & industrial engineering work. I work for a railroad now but I've also worked in the automotive industry, and when there wasn't enough horsepower there I moved to the locomotive industry. 4400 horsepower of turbo-charged diesel ground-shaking goodness ***Tim Allen grunt***
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      11-01-2007, 06:13 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Sigma View Post

Well, I'm a fervent believer in using other people's money whenever it's cheaper than using my own.

I can use my own money and easily make 10% on it in a year. In fact my annualized return on investments from the past 5 years is 27%. Now, I know that statistically-speaking that is bound to reverse or at least trend way down. But it should average out to something in the 8-10% range over time.

Considering that I can borrow money for a car in the 5% range, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me to use my own cash when I can use someone's else's while keeping mine to earn me money. As a matter of fact, given my return on investments, instead of paying $40,000 cash for a car, I can make the payments just off the interest I'm earning on that money in my portfolio. So, essentially, that car is "free".

yes sir.....I figure rather than paying cash, I can get 5.5% financing and earn at least double that in a conservative investment like Vanguard Total Stock Market index fund......I dont have time to mess around with individual stocks.....+, God forbid I need the $, it's fairly liquid vs getting the cash from a used BMW....although resale is high, I'll still lose my ass....
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      11-01-2007, 06:29 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
I've actually only very recently moved to Lincoln. I was in the DFW area of Texas for a little while. And you'd probably be surprised -- money doesn't go as far here as it does there. Property costs a good 25% more, food prices are higher, gas prices are very high, taxes are friggin' outrageous (Texas is one of the lowest-tax places to live in the nation, Nebraska actually one of the highest). All-in-all, I'd say my purchasing power is a good 15% less here in than it was in Texas.
I feel for ya.....for the 'privilege' of living in S FLA, property taxes $5000 (considered low compared to some of my neighbors), homeowners insurance $4800 (thank you Frances and Jeanne), as well as $250 a month Homeowners Association fee that pays for gate security guard and my basic cable.....we have cheap orange juice though....
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      11-01-2007, 07:46 PM   #103
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uh, there is a big difference between a program of socialized medicine and a bridge that helps the uninsured receive critical healthcare....the government exists to protect it's people, yes, but in other ways besides averting terrorism....illnesses and death of the uninsured is a shameful thing while we spend billions in Iraq enriching Cheney's "deferred compensation plan" from Halliburton(the no bid contractor), while our brave men and women come home armless and legless...fighting a war so we can exert our authority and establish a presence in the middle east, while not even our allies in the region want us there now(except Israel, yet you should research why our evangelical christian president is a 'friend' of Israel-chilling stuff)...not so coincidentally, in the span of 6 years, the United States has lost so much credibility with other countries it's mind boggling...anti American sentiment is at an alltime high....why is that?....keep smiling and waving as you board that plane after another 'do nothing' trip Condi......

...make no mistake,illness and death of the uninsured and underinsured costs our economy dearly in lost production....socialized medicine IMO is a dismal failure in Canada and UK....it's a horrendous drain on their economies, costs taxpayers an arm and a leg,all while patients have to wait months for the simplest of procedures.

'Other liberal views'.....yeah, like giving gay men and women the same rights and benefits afforded other married couples...such an outrage to consider that 2 men could love and commit to each other equally as a man and a woman could....but then again, the republican party, hijacked by the far right, thinks that homosexuality is a choice and can be "cured" like some disease......

Historians very often surprise me when they rate former presidents. For example, LBJ is widely considered "near great" even though he escalated the Vietnam war almost singlehandedly....Historians will have no problem rating GWB.....

his legacy:"mission accomplished"..... "Brownie, youre doing a heck of a job"... "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.
I was able to get a sense of his soul.He's a man deeply committed" .... "axis of evil"

:iono:
The uninsured already receive hospitalization. There are other organization beside the government that will help with the needs of the poor.

You taken the stance that since we can fight a war, it's also part of the Governments job to takes car of it's citizens. Sorry that is not the case, they are provided with equal oppertunity...! If they are unable or unwilling to take advantage of this great countries framework, then they can go work for the goverment in Canada, and receive free healthcare.

Sure the money over in Iraq could be can be used instead, to fund the uninsured... but again, thats not the Governments job. As for the Republican or Democrate debate...



This country needs to get back to basics. Shore up borders, impose some tarrifs on imbalanced trade countries and forget about Forien policy for the next 10 years. Let the rest of the wrold deal with Al'Qaeda, Iran and other world plights. We need to rebuild our infrastructure and use of alternative energies.

Do that for 10 years... Let the rest of the world uphold civil rights and defend Demacracy. Let Spain, France, Autralia, Columbia, Germany, Japan, China..etc intervene in world "hot spots". Let them flip the bill and become a world leader. While the US sits back and laughes at all the money were are saving. Let the UN beg us for intervention of stopping neclear arms, etc.

Hell, France might even pop it's head up and notice there is more on this globe than just themselves..!



It's so easy for other countries to just let the US handle all these affairs, then critique, when all doesn't go as planned.
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      11-01-2007, 07:55 PM   #104
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I (oh this is gonna hurt a little) agree with Garrett on most of his points.

And by the way, the military offers a good health care plan. Not that I would really want to fight alongside most of the freeloaders asking for a hand out. But maybe they could gain some discipline. Or they could just keep popping out babies (who they know will be uninsured) and pulling in those wellfare checks... cha-ching baby!
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      11-01-2007, 07:56 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
:iono:
The uninsured already receive hospitalization. There are other organization beside the government that will help with the needs of the poor.

oh really?

You taken the stance that since we can fight a war, it's also part of the Governments job to takes car of it's citizens.

yes indeed it is...that was the supposed purpose of the war...

Sure the money over in Iraq could be can be used instead, to fund the uninsured... but again, thats not the Governments job.

oh really....

forget about Forien policy for the next 10 years. Let the rest of the wrold deal with Al'Qaeda, Iran and other world plights.
The rest of the world wont deal with Al Qaeda, Iran.....but if we bury our head in the sand, they will take care of us....America isnt known throughout the world as the great Satan cause we like to wear red....
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      11-01-2007, 08:12 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
:iono:
The uninsured already receive hospitalization. There are other organization beside the government that will help with the needs of the poor.

You taken the stance that since we can fight a war, it's also part of the Governments job to takes car of it's citizens. Sorry that is not the case, they are provided with equal oppertunity...! If they are unable or unwilling to take advantage of this great countries framework, then they can go work for the goverment in Canada, and receive free healthcare.

Sure the money over in Iraq could be can be used instead, to fund the uninsured... but again, thats not the Governments job. As for the Republican or Democrate debate..

This country needs to get back to basics. Shore up borbers, impose some tarrifs on imbalanced trade countries and forget about Forien policy for the next 10 years. Let the rest of the wrold deal with Al'Qaeda, Iran and other world plights.

Do that for 10 years and the rest of the world will have to step up and defend demacracy and help (intervene) in world "hot spots". Let them flip the bill and become a world leader. While the US sits back and laughes at all the money were are saving.

Let them beg us for intervention of stopping neclear arms, etc. All we have to do is shore up our borders and have military in every airport.

Hell, France might even pop it's head up and notice there is more on this globe than just themselves..!



It's so easy for other countries to just let the US handle all these affairs, then critique, when all doesn't go as planned.
LMFAO how naive....forget about foreign policy(very smart Garrett) and very very soon the jihadists will start blowing themselves up here, and that my friend is terror.... and turn our backs on middle class and working poor uninsured (not poor), including children???.....they dont have hospitalization (where did you get that idea from?unless they are veterans, any hospital will throw the uninsured and unable to pay out on their ass).....and why isnt up to the government to offer assistance,or a bridge, not socialized medicine, to 45 million uninsured Americans in the wake of an immoral and unjustified war?.....youre the one who states lets's forget about foreign policy, yet what the f--- is this never ending war?....Let's declare victory, bring our troops home, and earmark those funds for our own suffering citizens .....you are a very self involved, uncaring person Garrett....Rush Limbaugh doesnt give a shit about you by the way.....

'well, americans:
what, nothin' better to do?
why don't you kick yourself out?
you're an immigrant too.

who's usin' who?
what should we do?
well you can't be a pimp
and a prostitute too'

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      11-01-2007, 08:29 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO View Post
$45000 / 12 months = gross monthly income $3750 less 25% Fed tax bracket (single) less 6.2% SS = $2580.00 - I took mercy and assumed the 128 driver lives in a state without state or city taxes....

$30,000 less 10% down = $27000 over 48 months at a very nice rate of 6.5% = $640.00

so, without insurance, this car will cost the $45k wage earner 25% of their take home pay if they live in a state without state income taxes.....a youngish driver would expect to pay conservatively $1500 a year for insurance, so total $765....so 30% of take home pay for a car....

this leaves $1815 for housing, food, clothing, gas,investments and all other expenses.....

lets see...a renter would expect to pay conservatively $900 a month for a decent 2 bedroom apt, food and entertainment, $600 per month, clothing $50, gas $200 a month rounded (assuming 1250 miles per month driven /20 miles per gal x 3.10 per gall 93 oct)...that leaves $50 for investments, emergencies, any other insurance, including health insurance or AFLAC, electric, water, (I included cable or satellite in entertainment), cellphone, home phone et al

real affordable.....

I appreciate your effort, but a 6.9% rate is laughable. My last BMW I had 2.9%

I did say financially resposnible people. Whom, might have already invested in the stock market at an early age, could have their house payed off and their disposable income is greater than people making alot more.

I'm just saying it's hard to "generalize" who can afford a $30k car. BTW, my payments for a $49,ooo BMW 330ci, was only $560/month... so there is more that goes into "owning" and "affording" than just your figures.
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      11-01-2007, 08:33 PM   #108
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I (oh this is gonna hurt a little) agree with Garrett on most of his points.

And by the way, the military offers a good health care plan. Not that I would really want to fight alongside most of the freeloaders asking for a hand out. But maybe they could gain some discipline. Or they could just keep popping out babies (who they know will be uninsured) and pulling in those wellfare checks... cha-ching baby!
I just heard on CNN that future President Clinton wants to bring the troops home and then cut defense spending and close select bases....she wants to spend the money on a healthcare initiative for the uninsured....glorious.....she has my vote!!!!!!!!
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      11-01-2007, 08:34 PM   #109
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I (oh this is gonna hurt a little) agree with Garrett on most of his points.

And by the way, the military offers a good health care plan. Not that I would really want to fight alongside most of the freeloaders asking for a hand out. But maybe they could gain some discipline. Or they could just keep popping out babies (who they know will be uninsured) and pulling in those wellfare checks... cha-ching baby!
I don't know if state side Military people get this from the general populace, but when I'm at the mall or a baseball game, etc. I give the men and women of the military my upmost respect and admiration.

Many people dismiss the oath these people undure for our freedoms!
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      11-01-2007, 08:39 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO View Post
LMFAO how naive....forget about foreign policy(very smart Garrett) and very very soon the jihadists will start blowing themselves up here, and that my friend is terror.... and turn our backs on middle class and working poor uninsured (not poor), including children???.....they dont have hospitalization (where did you get that idea from?unless they are veterans, any hospital will throw the uninsured and unable to pay out on their ass).....and why isnt up to the government to offer assistance,or a bridge, not socialized medicine, to 45 million uninsured Americans in the wake of an immoral and unjustified war?.....youre the one who states lets's forget about foreign policy, yet what the f--- is this never ending war?....Let's declare victory, bring our troops home, and earmark those funds for our own suffering citizens .....you are a very self involved, uncaring person Garrett....Rush Limbaugh doesnt give a shit about you by the way.....

'well, americans:
what, nothin' better to do?
why don't you kick yourself out?
you're an immigrant too.

who's usin' who?
what should we do?
well you can't be a pimp
and a prostitute too'

The White Stripes

Again.. I have not turned my back on little children, I give weekly out of my paycheck to several charities. Secondly, if those children are that destitute, then the people who failed them are their PARENTS! Not the Government. More and more people are relying on the Government. Michigan cut out our weflare programe 10 years ago, guess what.... some 30,000 people got jobs or took advantage of free schooling. If you learn not to hunt for your food, you become reliant on hand-outs.

The government dos not exsist to suckle, nest and feed their citizens.


Yes, every person in this country has hospitalization. How can you not know this. Walk into any emegency room with no wallet and amnesia... By Federal law, they have to treat you!
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