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      07-24-2007, 02:19 PM   #1
Deutsch
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The romance is fading

Help me out guys!!! Don't know what it is but I feel as if my love for the 1er coupe is fading and I'm falling deeper in love with the new Camaro. I don't know if it's this pride in GM cars rekindled that I had for so long, so long ago. I'm beginning to think of German cars as overbearing money pits, instead of objects of enduring passion. Maybe it has something to do with practical value then? I dont know?
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      07-24-2007, 03:44 PM   #2
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Help me out guys!!! Don't know what it is but I feel as if my love for the 1er coupe is fading and I'm falling deeper in love with the new Camaro. I don't know if it's this pride in GM cars rekindled that I had for so long, so long ago. I'm beginning to think of German cars as overbearing money pits, instead of objects of enduring passion. Maybe it has something to do with practical value then? I dont know?
Ah, just a passing fancy, Deutsch. You're like all the rest of us...afraid of long term relationships!
I don't buy it man. You're just having the jitters.
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      07-24-2007, 04:02 PM   #3
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Understand where you're coming from. I read Don Sherman's review of the updated L3 powered Corvette and now I think I need to get some seat time in it. Oh well . . .

But that's the neat thing about cars now - there are so many good choices out there (and they don't build them like Trabants anymore ; -).
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      07-24-2007, 05:38 PM   #4
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Corvette's? Camaro's?
Two of the smartest guys on this site having second thoughts?
Look, I know that keeping an open mind is a sign of intelligence but it's way too early
for a fog to set in.
Me- I'm more sure than I've ever been. The 1-er might be the coolest best looking car BMW
makes.
My second thoughts might appear when we finally see some $#'s..
.:biggrin::biggrin:
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      07-24-2007, 05:44 PM   #5
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i would go for a 06 elise or a new slk350
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      07-24-2007, 05:55 PM   #6
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You are obviously torn about buying a foreign car, Deutsch. IIRC you started the why not buy American thread and now you're looking to do just that. Go for the Camaro if it makes you happy. It's a cool looking concept, and it probably will be a decent car, but I highly doubt it can hold a candle to the 135i on the twisties (or likely in a straight line), but as long as it makes you happy...
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      07-24-2007, 06:09 PM   #7
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You are obviously torn about buying a foreign car, Deutsch. IIRC you started the why not buy American thread and now you're looking to do just that.

You're right, that plays a small part... well maybe a big part...
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      07-24-2007, 06:15 PM   #8
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Then go for it. Our government has been selling American jobs away for the past 3 decades, and the auto industry is one of the most prominent getting bit. I feel that me buying a single car I'm not thrilled about isn't helping anything.

If they (the US auto companies) made a product I truly felt good about, I'd get it. If the Camaro does that for you.. be happy and get it.
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      07-25-2007, 02:55 AM   #9
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Then go for it. Our government has been selling American jobs away for the past 3 decades, and the auto industry is one of the most prominent getting bit. I feel that me buying a single car I'm not thrilled about isn't helping anything.

If they (the US auto companies) made a product I truly felt good about, I'd get it. If the Camaro does that for you.. be happy and get it.
I agree with your statement above. It's not that I'm ethnocentric, I'm not. I've just had a lot of realizations lately about life and whats important, and spending a heap on a car most certainly isn't one of them. I shared my thoughts on this and very few if any responded, and my thoughts are basically this: I'm going to pay over $30k for a premium compact car that I plan on keeping for a very long time, eventually the warranty will expire and I'll be the one footing the bill for everything, and BMW's by and large are not cheap to run(and not entirely gear head friendly). The Camaro would prove to be a fairly inexpensive long term proposition, but then I'm afraid that in order to feel good about buying an American muslce car it would be a V8, and I already have high expectations where fuel economy is concerned(at least 24 combined), so high that it would probably be called unreasonable by those "in the know". So looking ahead, I'm stuck with a real problem, because very few cars outside of the 1er have the quality, handling, and design that the 1er does with European sophistication.
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      07-25-2007, 11:57 AM   #10
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Corvette?

I was getting ready to post a response last night when the maintenance activity occurred. Here it is to the best of my recollection:

Brookside - I said I wanted some seat time in the new Corvette. Didn't say I wanted to buy it. ; -)

But to deutsch's delimna, here's why I am still strongly considering purchasing a 135i, after I had pretty much convinced myself to buy a Cayman last year.

- I am not going to track the car. This is going to be a 'Grand Touring' car for extended trips across the country.

- I prefer to drive 'Blue Highways' and the midrange punch the N54 engine will provide is perfect for passing on two lane roads.

- I do a far amount of night driving and my eyes are getting older, so the adapative Xenon lights are a bonus.

- I am absolutely floored by the technological integration of the EffecientDynamics. These are great 'little things' that make much more sense to me than poorly executed 'big things' (read Hybrids ; -). A car that can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds and still return good in-town and highway mileage? You betcha!

- I've always been a sucker for well designed 3-box cars. And there was a lot of good design work done on this car; this is one of the better BMWs from a design perspective I've seen in awhile.

- Did I mention this thing is a STINKING value!! If it comes in at ~ $35K to start, the 135i will be ~ $15K cheaper than a new Corvette. And at least $20K cheaper than the Cayman (enough leftover money to build that Westfield Seven I've wanted).

The last piece of the puzzle for me is how will the car feel. Will the driving feel be 'greater than the sum of the parts' or will it be a great engine in a so-so chassis. If it has the 'carved out of a block of alloy' feel, it'll be in the garage next year.
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      07-25-2007, 06:16 PM   #11
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Fellas I can see where your coming from. But the Camaro?? Oh nooo. I mean you know Chevy is going to water that down so it looks like a rental car mustang. I would take the Dodge Challenger. That thing is going to be ROCKIN. I stray away sometime from my 1 series but I keep on coming back.
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      07-26-2007, 12:50 AM   #12
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Now, sit back and review what was said, you want to switch from a BMW to an american manufacturer?? Are you nuts? All the technology that the American manufacturers have came from previous research done by the Germans and Japs. The turbo was designed by a German and used long before the American manufacturers decided to put them in Grand Nationals.. Stick with your guns, you were going in the right direction. BMW will not let you down. Hell if they do, you sell it for what you paid for it instead of losing money.
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      07-26-2007, 03:48 AM   #13
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They are two totally different cars with extremely different driving styles. I am also in love with the new Camaro. But I have to say that I must have the 135i over the Camaro. Both cars are going to be more than awesome to drive. You will be happy either way you go. I will give you thumbs up regardless of your choice. Again both cars are awesome and sure to be a blast to drive and own...

-Chris:wink:
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      07-26-2007, 09:33 AM   #14
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Both cars are going to be more than awesome to drive. You will be happy either way you go. I will give you thumbs up regardless of your choice. Again both cars are awesome and sure to be a blast to drive and own...

-Chris:wink:
Although I'm biased in favor of the 135i, but I totally agree that at the end of the day it really is about maximizing the fun factor. We are definitely not talking basic transportation here. :thumbup:
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      07-26-2007, 04:05 PM   #15
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Now, sit back and review what was said, you want to switch from a BMW to an american manufacturer?? Are you nuts? All the technology that the American manufacturers have came from previous research done by the Germans and Japs. The turbo was designed by a German and used long before the American manufacturers decided to put them in Grand Nationals.. Stick with your guns, you were going in the right direction. BMW will not let you down. Hell if they do, you sell it for what you paid for it instead of losing money.

Not crazy at all actually, just reasonable and realistic. I can easily see a BMW (or any other german car for that matter) becoming a real money pit after the warranty has expired. The Camaro will not be any less sophisticated tech wise, and anyone that thinks so clearly knows nothing about neither the Camaro's development(the Zeta program) or GM's capability of producing high tech cars and technologies alone.
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      07-26-2007, 04:30 PM   #16
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Not crazy at all actually, just reasonable and realistic. I can easily see a BMW (or any other german car for that matter) becoming a real money pit after the warranty has expired. The Camaro will not be any less sophisticated tech wise, and anyone that thinks so clearly knows nothing about neither the Camaro's development(the Zeta program) or GM's capability of producing high tech cars and technologies alone.
It's kind of unfortunate that the US domestics get so little credit. True they have made some major missteps and caved into the "Bean Counters" probably more than they should have, but that said there is some excellent engineering going on among the domestics.

If you have some doubts try out a C06 or better yet a Z06. Even a Mustang GT is a fun ride and the new Camaro looks to up the ante. I know several people that were buying a "Change of Life" car and that opted for the 'Vette even after test driving Porsche's and Bimmers.
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      07-26-2007, 07:46 PM   #17
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They are two totally different cars with extremely different driving styles.

-Chris:wink:
Mmmm, not really. Both cater to ther performance crowd, and no doubt the 5th gen Camaro will be able to hang with almost any performance car(European, Japanese, whatever) in the corners. No offense, but here again is a case of slight ignorance, because research shows exactly what the Zeta platform is capable of if any of the reviews on the Holden Commodore or Vauxhall VRX8(how many times more do I have to state the fact that EVO calls it a cut price M5!?!?!?) are anything to go by.
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      07-26-2007, 07:58 PM   #18
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One thing is for sure: No one is denying the cost of long term ownership for one of these cars(BMW's). Bums me out that these cars seem to be built around short term ownership(free maintenance program comes to mind, though I know this is only true for our market)that guarantees everything works until after those four years are up(at no cost to you), and then comes to heavy stuff, because fact is, keeping one of these guys is not cheap.
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      07-27-2007, 02:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
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One thing is for sure: No one is denying the cost of long term ownership for one of these cars(BMW's). Bums me out that these cars seem to be built around short term ownership(free maintenance program comes to mind, though I know this is only true for our market)that guarantees everything works until after those four years are up(at no cost to you), and then comes to heavy stuff, because fact is, keeping one of these guys is not cheap.
I'd be willing to bet the camaro will be worth a lot less than a 1er when you've decided to get rid of either one. The free maintenance and loaner car program with BMW is brilliant and great value add, and the cost of which should be added to any other car one would consider.

Please don't take what I'm about to say as any sort of personal attack, but IMHO for the most part American cars are crap. There are so many reasons why they cost what they do. American car companies outsource a lot of their key components to the LOWEST bidder, period. I remember taking a look at the Vette at a car show in FTL. Exterior, magnificent, designed by an Italian, not sure who designed the Camaro concept, but it is really nice have to give it that much. But OH GOD, the interior of that Vette, . Same reason I quickly got over the Z. They cut corners to save cost. I'm almost positive the Vette had the same Delco radio as a Malibu or all the other cars in the lot. The cost accountants at American car companies have way too much say in the final product. Do you really want that? Seems they're all strugglin to make a profit these days.

Go down to your nearest chevy dealer look closely at what they have on the lot now. Inspect the fit and finish of the cars, CLOSELY. Look at the size of the brakes, seating position, ergonomic layout, etc... Then go to a Japanese or German dealer any, and do the same.

As a whole, I believe the Japanese, and the Germans make better quality products, especially the Japanese. They are also way ahead in terms of technology.

Sorry for the long post, but 1 final point. If you had to invest your entire retirement portfolio into either Chevy or BMW, who would it be? Think about that and what it tells you about that direction, leadership, and objectives of that company and their related products.
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      07-27-2007, 04:20 AM   #20
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Dude relllllllax it's all good, BMW will throw ya a few bones, September is the big car show, it's little over a month away.....trust me after that, there will be plenty of info and more videos...that what they are doing now.
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      07-27-2007, 07:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus View Post
I'd be willing to bet the camaro will be worth a lot less than a 1er when you've decided to get rid of either one. The free maintenance and loaner car program with BMW is brilliant and great value add, and the cost of which should be added to any other car one would consider.

Please don't take what I'm about to say as any sort of personal attack, but IMHO for the most part American cars are crap. There are so many reasons why they cost what they do. American car companies outsource a lot of their key components to the LOWEST bidder, period. I remember taking a look at the Vette at a car show in FTL. Exterior, magnificent, designed by an Italian, not sure who designed the Camaro concept, but it is really nice have to give it that much. But OH GOD, the interior of that Vette, . Same reason I quickly got over the Z. They cut corners to save cost. I'm almost positive the Vette had the same Delco radio as a Malibu or all the other cars in the lot. The cost accountants at American car companies have way too much say in the final product. Do you really want that? Seems they're all strugglin to make a profit these days.

Go down to your nearest chevy dealer look closely at what they have on the lot now. Inspect the fit and finish of the cars, CLOSELY. Look at the size of the brakes, seating position, ergonomic layout, etc... Then go to a Japanese or German dealer any, and do the same.

As a whole, I believe the Japanese, and the Germans make better quality products, especially the Japanese. They are also way ahead in terms of technology.

Sorry for the long post, but 1 final point. If you had to invest your entire retirement portfolio into either Chevy or BMW, who would it be? Think about that and what it tells you about that direction, leadership, and objectives of that company and their related products.

I AGREE!
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      07-27-2007, 07:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deutsch View Post
One thing is for sure: No one is denying the cost of long term ownership for one of these cars(BMW's). Bums me out that these cars seem to be built around short term ownership(free maintenance program comes to mind, though I know this is only true for our market)that guarantees everything works until after those four years are up(at no cost to you), and then comes to heavy stuff, because fact is, keeping one of these guys is not cheap.
I have a 10 year old BMW. As long as you properly maintain it.. you're good to go. I even track and autocross the car a LOT. It's still extremely dependable.

I think the recent BMW offerings are of even higher quality. Plus, you don't have to pay anything for quite a few years (including brake pads and even windshield wipers)... GM won't do that, and there's a reason they won't.
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