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      01-23-2009, 11:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by techimo View Post
I posted this as a reply to another thread but thought it would be interesting for M3 owners to weigh in. I asked a couple questions about 335i vs M3 if M3 = $3k more and the answer was always M3 all the way, instead of "you have to get the car that's right for you"..which assumes that the M3 is always superior for everyone. But, I have gripes with the M3 even though I know it's the better car all around, which could push me towards a 335i regardless:

-M hood bump annoys me while driving. My preferred position is closer to the wheel to reach the clutch and highish, so the bump is accentuated since the hood is well in my view.

-Fat M steering wheel annoys me, I don't have gorilla hands

-The V8 engine noise while cool at first, and cool at 8,000 RPM when you're hauling ass at full throttle, isn't necessarily what I want to hear every minute of every drive. Personally, I'd rather have silent and explosive power i.e. a tesla roadster.

-I like acceleration and effortless speed. I can cruise along in my e46 330i at 100 and it's nothing. The 335i feels similar. The M3 at 100 to me, doesn't feel as luxury or effortless at 100.. It feels like a raw race car at that speed, not a luxury-sports car.

-The more available torque in the 335i @ 1300rpm means that I can get a 6MT and fudge the shifting when I feel lazy while driving around at less stressful lower RPM levels if I feel like it and still have power without having to be in just the right gear at the right speed always.

-I have no desire to track the car-- anyone that buys an M3 and hits the track with no pro-training or driving experience is asking for a spectacular and very embarassing wreck. Just search youtube for m3 crash. The M3 is spectacular but can easily exceed a newbie track driver's limits.

-M3=200miles on a tank & 15mpg. I detest Escalades/hummers/heavy oil users and polluters so this is a big deal to me.

-I don't want people screwing with me on the freeway, constantly trying to race me, saying shit to me in parking lots, keying my car, or anything else. I'm 30 but I look 20, so I have to deal with the young looking M3 owner issues from other peoples envy/jealousy/anger, I don't want speeding tickets from bully-cops (not one ticket in 9 years of driving a 323Ci then 330i at a constant 90mph all over the bay area freeways and no radar detector) and I want to maintain a low profile.

So.. While I'm quite sure that the M3 is the superior car, it isn't necessarily right for everyone and thus this isn't just about economics. BUT... I know very well that all of my above bitching might fly out the door after spending 24 hours driving the M3 around .
I was just doing 100 today in my M3, felt just as effortless as my 335i, sounded better too.
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      01-23-2009, 11:57 PM   #68
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100 feels like nothing in an M3.. 120 feels like nothing.. What are you talking about?
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      01-24-2009, 01:35 AM   #69
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100 feels like nothing in an M3.. 120 feels like nothing.. What are you talking about?
LOL guys as stated, I had 10 minutes in this car. 90-100mph was experienced for like 30 seconds while merging onto the highway and I wasn't in 6th gear so that probably is what shaped my view of it. These were just my initial impressions from a very brief ride so some of them could be way off. I wanted to run my thoughts by M3 owners to see if I was off base, and I appreciate the feedback. Your comments inspired me to give the car a 2nd look, and I'm renting an M3 on Sunday for 24 hours of driving before making a buying decision.
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      01-25-2009, 02:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by techimo View Post
LOL guys as stated, I had 10 minutes in this car. 90-100mph was experienced for like 30 seconds while merging onto the highway and I wasn't in 6th gear so that probably is what shaped my view of it. These were just my initial impressions from a very brief ride so some of them could be way off. I wanted to run my thoughts by M3 owners to see if I was off base, and I appreciate the feedback. Your comments inspired me to give the car a 2nd look, and I'm renting an M3 on Sunday for 24 hours of driving before making a buying decision.
Save the rental fees. Get the 335 and then come back to M3post and try to justify your purchase to M3 owners. You want to know what it is like to drive the M3? Click on my Videos link.
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      01-25-2009, 02:52 AM   #71
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Save the rental fees. Get the 335 and then come back to M3post and try to justify your purchase to M3 owners. You want to know what it is like the driver the M3? Click on my Videos link.
I don't have to justify my final purchase to anyone. I'll choose the car that fits me best and make no excuses for it.
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      01-25-2009, 03:49 AM   #72
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Save the rental fees. Get the 335 and then come back to M3post and try to justify your purchase to M3 owners. You want to know what it is like to drive the M3? Click on my Videos link.
OT - I really like your videos man... nice job. Love the sound - that's stock right? I think stock sounds fine, good enough for me! (great, you're going to tell me it's aftermarket...haha).
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      01-25-2009, 04:17 AM   #73
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OT - I really like your videos man... nice job. Love the sound - that's stock right? I think stock sounds fine, good enough for me! (great, you're going to tell me it's aftermarket...haha).
Thanks man, the car is bone stock. I'm looking into aftermarket exhausts though, I want to share this sound with people a 1/4 mile away.
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      01-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techimo View Post
I posted this as a reply to another thread but thought it would be interesting for M3 owners to weigh in. I asked a couple questions about 335i vs M3 if M3 = $3k more and the answer was always M3 all the way, instead of "you have to get the car that's right for you"..which assumes that the M3 is always superior for everyone. But, I have gripes with the M3 even though I know it's the better car all around, which could push me towards a 335i regardless:

Note: these impressions were based on a 10 minute test drive only and could be way off and that's why I'm looking for feedback. I'm renting an M3 for 24 hours for a much more thorough test:

-M hood bump annoys me while driving. My preferred position is closer to the wheel to reach the clutch and highish, so the bump is accentuated since the hood is well in my view.

-Fat M steering wheel annoys me, I don't have gorilla hands

-The V8 engine noise while cool at first, and cool at 8,000 RPM when you're hauling ass at full throttle, isn't necessarily what I want to hear every minute of every drive. Personally, I'd rather have silent and explosive power i.e. a tesla roadster.

-I like acceleration and effortless speed. I can cruise along in my e46 330i at 100 and it's nothing. The 335i feels similar. The M3 at 100 to me, doesn't feel as luxury or effortless at 100.. It feels like a raw race car at that speed, not a luxury-sports car.

-The more available torque in the 335i @ 1300rpm means that I can get a 6MT and fudge the shifting when I feel lazy while driving around at less stressful lower RPM levels if I feel like it and still have power without having to be in just the right gear at the right speed always.

-I have no desire to track the car-- anyone that buys an M3 and hits the track with no pro-training or driving experience is asking for a spectacular and very embarassing wreck. Just search youtube for m3 crash. The M3 is spectacular but can easily exceed a newbie track driver's limits.

-M3=200miles on a tank & 15mpg. I detest Escalades/hummers/heavy oil users and polluters so this is a big deal to me.

-I don't want people screwing with me on the freeway, constantly trying to race me, saying shit to me in parking lots, keying my car, or anything else. I'm 30 but I look 20, so I have to deal with the young looking M3 owner issues from other peoples envy/jealousy/anger, I don't want speeding tickets from bully-cops (not one ticket in 9 years of driving a 323Ci then 330i at a constant 90mph all over the bay area freeways and no radar detector) and I want to maintain a low profile.

So.. While I'm quite sure that the M3 is the superior car, it isn't necessarily right for everyone and thus this isn't just about economics. BUT... I know very well that all of my above bitching might fly out the door after spending 24 hours driving the M3 around .

PLEASE don't buy an M3!
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      01-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #75
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Thanks man, the car is bone stock. I'm looking into aftermarket exhausts though, I want to share this sound with people a 1/4 mile away.
LOL, I hear ya (and if I'm ever a 1/4 mile away from you, I literally will...)
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      01-25-2009, 09:02 PM   #76
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Besides my M3 coupe, I own a Hyundai Azera Limited and a Santa Fe Limited. The drive trains and interior trim equals or exceeds the BMW in almost every case. Reliability has been 100%, with only oil changes required.

When I had the initial oil change on the M3 they loaned me an X3, which did not stand up particularly well to the Santa Fe costing $10,000+ less. If Hyundai could figure out how to get the handling closer to BMW-levels, then they'd have a world beater. Alas, performance comes at a cost and the M3 (which I consider a bargain) costs three times as much as either Hyundai.

Dave
your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai

no offense as my girl is..she says I like the 335 but why pay so much when I can get a VW for cheaper..... HAHAHA


anyways, hyundai will always be hyundai. kinda like the Z06, it will always be a chevy.
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      01-25-2009, 09:06 PM   #77
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your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai

no offense as my girl is..she says I like the 335 but why pay so much when I can get a VW for cheaper..... HAHAHA


anyways, hyundai will always be hyundai. kinda like the Z06, it will always be a chevy.
I have no idea why ethnicity comes into it, but I bet you're an American for saying that liking a Hyundai has something do do one's ethnic background. =)

I don't think he was stating that a Hyundai is a BMW, he was merely stating that he has 2 Hyundai's. And btw, the Z06 analogy was really off in terms of making your point. How'd you do on your SAT's? Cat is to mouse as... car is to..? Haha.

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      01-25-2009, 09:42 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Besides my M3 coupe, I own a Hyundai Azera Limited and a Santa Fe Limited. The drive trains and interior trim equals or exceeds the BMW in almost every case. Reliability has been 100%, with only oil changes required.

When I had the initial oil change on the M3 they loaned me an X3, which did not stand up particularly well to the Santa Fe costing $10,000+ less. If Hyundai could figure out how to get the handling closer to BMW-levels, then they'd have a world beater. Alas, performance comes at a cost and the M3 (which I consider a bargain) costs three times as much as either Hyundai.

Dave
You're smoking crack!
I have an M3 and an X3. My GF has a Santa Fe. To compare anything about the Santa Fe with the X3 is ludicrous. NOTHING about the Santa Fe compares. The interior is the cheapest plastic made, the seats heaters warm up eventually, the steering is weighted poorly, the brakes eventually stop, and the acceleration is strained. Then there is the location of controls, and the quality of every other item in the Santa Fe.
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      01-25-2009, 09:44 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by pepper View Post
your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai

no offense as my girl is..she says I like the 335 but why pay so much when I can get a VW for cheaper..... HAHAHA


anyways, hyundai will always be hyundai. kinda like the Z06, it will always be a chevy.
You really are a pile. If you cant say something that even remotely makes it sound as if you have a thought life, than do the rest of us a favor and close your toothless mouth.

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      01-25-2009, 09:52 PM   #80
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your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai.
Wow, just because we drive German cars doesn't make us Nazis does it??? What an absolute prick you must be.

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      01-25-2009, 09:52 PM   #81
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Here come the M3 fan boy bashing on the OP.
"my m3 is way better that a 335, it feel better handle better and the driving experience are great"
Well said!
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      01-25-2009, 09:54 PM   #82
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your either a jew, or the first person in a BMW forum to like hyundai

.
Totally inapproriate and uncalled for.
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      01-25-2009, 10:09 PM   #83
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I have no idea why ethnicity comes into it, but I bet you're an American for saying that liking a Hyundai has something do do one's ethnic background. =)

I don't think he was stating that a Hyundai is a BMW, he was merely stating that he has 2 Hyundai's. And btw, the Z06 analogy was really off in terms of making your point. How'd you do on your SAT's? Cat is to mouse as... car is to..? Haha.

WINNER! First post in this thread that made me laugh out loud.

To the OP:
2 things that you mentioned that held water with me. Gas mileage is on the crappy side, compared to some of the competition. Also, being a tall guy, the bulge really popped out at me the first few days of driving the car. Not that I didn't like it, I actually really like it, but I was surprised at how noticeable it was from behind the steering wheel as opposed to just looking at the car from the outside. Everything else you mentioned though, is what makes the car so special. I don't consider myself a BMW enthusiast, I'm just an enthusiast. I've never really been brand loyal, I just want the best performance car I can buy for the price I want to spend. This time around it was the M3. After living with the car since September, and putting 5500 miles on it, I can tell you that I love EVERYTHING about this car. I catch myself taking a smoke break at work just to take a peek at it. I drive it whenever I can. It seems like after every drive, I like the car even more. I love the feel of the thick steering wheel(give it some time). When you go back to a thin steering wheel, it just feels cheap. I drove a buddy's 335i and as nice as it was, I'm not trying to knock the 335i, but it felt boring. The 335i felt a bit more responsive (regarding power), or torquier under 2.5k rpms, but from 2.5k to redline the M feels better in every sense of the word. The steering felt better, the sound was more aggressive. The interior was a bit better, and IMO looks better. I don't think choosing an M3 over a 335i is going to lead to noticeable difference in attention to the average police officer, boy-racer, or random key artist in your local parking lot.

Modding a 335i will get you better performance, but its gonna take more than a chip to beat an M3 in a straight line, and a lot more work to capture the performance/feel of the M's steering. If I have friends over and we need more beer, my friends battle over who's going along for the ride. I'm not saying the M3 is a better purchase for everyone, but I find it tough to believe any auto enthusiast would choose the 335i over the M3 unless they were looking to save money. Notice I said SAVE money, I didn't say you couldn't afford it, as this is a sensitive spot amongst many. What you set your budget at and what you can actually purchase are 2 different things, but to me, 3k difference is a no brainer if you are a true enthusiast. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone, and no doubt, some people are a bit too defensive around here. One main reason for the reactions in this thread, is that many feel if you can't appreciate what the M3 delivers, you don't deserve it.

Here's my conclusion. I think your mind might have been made up already, or at least that is what I could tell from your initial post. Judging by what you've stated earlier, even if the M was cheaper, the 335i is what you'd prefer, as its a bit softer and more understated looks-wise. The M is a car that begs to be driven. It's got some imperfections, but that adds to the soul that this car has. The soul a car possesses is something thats hard to convey, its also different for everyone, as its very emotion/opinion based. The M3 triggers tons of emotion and if you don't feel it, don't get it. You might grow into it, but that would be taking a chance, and who wants to take a chance on $60k. Based on your car history, and "perceived" lack of desire to own an M car, my advice is to stick with the safe choice. I like the fact that my car is kind of rare anyway. Also, an AMG Mercedes might be a bit closer to what your looking for. They have plenty of straight line power and torque, and handle decent also. They are supposedly more comfortable too, but that might be debatable.



P.S. I stated earlier that I don't consider myself a BMW enthusiast, maybe "didn't" would be a better word. Because everyday I drive this car, I feel myself being drawn closer and closer to the dark side.
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      01-25-2009, 10:23 PM   #84
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You're smoking crack!
I have an M3 and an X3. My GF has a Santa Fe. To compare anything about the Santa Fe with the X3 is ludicrous. NOTHING about the Santa Fe compares. The interior is the cheapest plastic made, the seats heaters warm up eventually, the steering is weighted poorly, the brakes eventually stop, and the acceleration is strained. Then there is the location of controls, and the quality of every other item in the Santa Fe.
Maybe you're drinking too much of that BMW coffee that they hand out at the Performance Center.

I was comparing the Santa Fe Limited, with leather, etc., to what seemed like a base X3 with leather. Interior trim wasn't close, with the Hyundai smoking the BMW with better leather quality and better plastic. Neither the X3 or Santa Fe is anywhere near the level of my M3 trim or the X5 that I drove at the Performance Center. The X3, at least the model that I drove, is built to a price point and it shows. Controls in the Santa Fe are superior as is the fit and finish.

The X3's drive train responds better in automatic, but the Hyundai is fine when you shift manually, which I do. I suspect that the X3 handles better, but I don't care much about that in my 4-wheel drive. Trim levels are clearly in the Hyundai's favor.

Hey, I own a BMW, but I can be realistic about other cars' virtues. Hyundai is an exceptional value, including the Sonata, Santa Fe and Azera. I suspect the Genesis is also very good, based on reviews and Tommy Kendall's Road Test. I bought a my M3 because of its balance between performance, luxury and practicality, which I consider unmatched. When it's time to get a luxury car I'll consider BMW, but also Hyundai.

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      01-25-2009, 10:29 PM   #85
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Can we restrict the M3 forums to owners only, please?
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      01-25-2009, 10:55 PM   #86
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Can we restrict the M3 forums to owners only, please?
The OP is considering purchasing an M3. I think that he and others with real questions about M3s should be welcome here.

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      01-25-2009, 11:03 PM   #87
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Maybe you're drinking too much of that BMW coffee that they hand out at the Performance Center.

I was comparing the Santa Fe Limited, with leather, etc., to what seemed like a base X3 with leather. Interior trim wasn't close, with the Hyundai smoking the BMW with better leather quality and better plastic. Neither the X3 or Santa Fe is anywhere near the level of my M3 trim or the X5 that I drove at the Performance Center. The X3, at least the model that I drove, is built to a price point and it shows. Controls in the Santa Fe are superior as is the fit and finish.

The X3's drive train responds better in automatic, but the Hyundai is fine when you shift manually, which I do. I suspect that the X3 handles better, but I don't care much about that in my 4-wheel drive. Trim levels are clearly in the Hyundai's favor.

Hey, I own a BMW, but I can be realistic about other cars' virtues. Hyundai is an exceptional value, including the Sonata, Santa Fe and Azera. I suspect the Genesis is also very good, based on reviews and Tommy Kendall's Road Test. I bought a my M3 because of its balance between performance, luxury and practicality, which I consider unmatched. When it's time to get a luxury car I'll consider BMW, but also Hyundai.

Dave
The leather in the Santa Fe is like the stuff made in Pakistan. The handling is not even close, and if you think they are, you don't have a clue. My X3 with the "M" suspension and 19" wheels handles closer to a sports car than an SUV. The noise level in the Santa Fe is off the chart, especially compared to the X3. Tell us the brakes are even close?

No cool aid here. I've had all kinds of cars, and I would have gladly bought something other than the X3 for less money, if the performance was there.
Only a complete moron would say a Santa Fe is better (or even close) than the X3.
I suppose an Elantra comes close to your M3 too? You probably can't tell the difference.
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      01-26-2009, 12:03 AM   #88
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The leather in the Santa Fe is like the stuff made in Pakistan. The handling is not even close, and if you think they are, you don't have a clue. My X3 with the "M" suspension and 19" wheels handles closer to a sports car than an SUV. The noise level in the Santa Fe is off the chart, especially compared to the X3. Tell us the brakes are even close?

No cool aid here. I've had all kinds of cars, and I would have gladly bought something other than the X3 for less money, if the performance was there.
Only a complete moron would say a Santa Fe is better (or even close) than the X3....
We're both in the Rocky Mountain region, maybe I could show you a thing or two about handling at an autocross or track day. I'd love to see who has "a clue" about handling. Of course, we'd be driving our M3s.

As I said, the X3 I drove was a base level with leather, NOT "M" suspension and 19" wheels. What does that option cost, BTW? No doubt you can option out an X3 beyond the loaner I used. The brakes, in normal use, felt about the same in both vehicles. I've not done laps in either and don't plan to.

I thought that was your GF's Santa Fe not yours. Is it a Limited? Why would you buy an X3 for performance??? The leather is very nice in mine.

Notice that I haven't called you a moron, yet. You can join in the discussion, but I'd appreciate a refrain from calling me names. Some shithead questioned my ethnicity up the thread, so your implication that I'm a moron if I don't agree with you is perhaps more disgusting than usual because of his stupidity.

Dave
dcstep is offline   United_States
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