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      01-21-2009, 12:22 AM   #23
techimo
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Originally Posted by Stunnerable View Post
You obviously don't "get" the M3. It's a passion not a car. It's for people that truly understand it's purpose. You mentioned how it feels hard edged at 100MPH.. Are you kidding? This is the softest edged M3 EVER! You seem to be the guy that has money and wants the best BMW and found out you need to be an enthusiast to love one. Thank you BMW! I think you just proved you are still making cars for drivers.

Buy a Benz dude.
Uh maybe you missed my first post. I've owned a 3-series (2000 323Ci and e46 330i) for the past 9 years plus a 2000 Boxster S for a few years. I probably won't drive anything but BMW and I assure you that I "get" it. The question here isn't BMW or not, the question for me is 335i or M3. I fully appreciate my MT e46 330i around every corner, every mountain road, on every highway, at every stop light, and would be bored as hell in any other kind of car. I've test driven the Audi S5: boring. Mercedes are SMG: I need MT, and Mercedes are dull anyway.

However soft you think the M3 is, the 335i is softer as a DD -- so that's my question, is whether or not I want the M3 as a DD or a 335i. Sorry that you've got such blinders on for the M3 that you can't even answer a question or consider opinions that differ with your own.
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      01-21-2009, 12:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by techimo View Post
Uh maybe you missed my first post. I've owned a 3-series (2000 323Ci and e46 330i) for the past 9 years plus a 2000 Boxster S for a few years. I probably won't drive anything but BMW and I assure you that I "get" it. The question here isn't BMW or not, the question for me is 335i or M3. I fully appreciate my MT e46 330i around every corner, every mountain road, on every highway, at every stop light, and would be bored as hell in any other kind of car. I've test driven the Audi S5: boring. Mercedes are SMG: I need MT, and Mercedes are dull anyway.

However soft you think the M3 is, the 335i is softer as a DD -- so that's my question, is whether or not I want the M3 as a DD or a 335i. Sorry that you've got such blinders on for the M3 that you can't even answer a question or consider opinions that differ with your own.
You are at the wrong place if you want people to reinforce your view that you only need a 335i as opposed to an M3. After all, the is M3 Post and alot of us have been through our 335i/xi days and decided that it was worth while to make a switch.
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      01-21-2009, 12:33 AM   #25
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-M hood bump annoys me while driving. My preferred position is closer to the wheel to reach the clutch and highish, so the bump is accentuated since the hood is well in my view.
I don't even notice it, coming from an E46, looks great from the outside

-Fat M steering wheel annoys me, I don't have gorilla hands
Trade with someone with a regular sport wheel plus cash you'll get a dozen offers in an hour, takes very little time to swap, I also first thought it was too fat but now love it

-The V8 engine noise while cool at first, and cool at 8,000 RPM when you're hauling ass at full throttle, isn't necessarily what I want to hear every minute of every drive. Personally, I'd rather have silent and explosive power i.e. a tesla roadster.
It's a high performance engine, the M3 takes more commitment than a regular 3, it also has a rough idle, the LSD make noises as does DCT. The exhaust is hardly loud, I don't anyone would describe it as harsh or drowning, my non-enthusiast friends hardly notice it


-I like acceleration and effortless speed. I can cruise along in my e46 330i at 100 and it's nothing. The 335i feels similar. The M3 at 100 to me, doesn't feel as luxury or effortless at 100.. It feels like a raw race car at that speed, not a luxury-sports car.
100 feels awesome to me, it's not the soft cruiser a non-sport 335 is

-The more available torque in the 335i @ 1300rpm means that I can get a 6MT and fudge the shifting when I feel lazy while driving around at less stressful lower RPM levels if I feel like it and still have power without having to be in just the right gear at the right speed always.
this is not the engine for you, and the engine is the heart of this car

-I have no desire to track the car-- anyone that buys an M3 and hits the track with no pro-training or driving experience is asking for a spectacular and very embarassing wreck. Just search youtube for m3 crash. The M3 is spectacular but can easily exceed a newbie track driver's limits.
not true, the track is the perfect place to learn a car's and a driver's ability and limits, you should try it

-M3=200miles on a tank & 15mpg. I detest Escalades/hummers/heavy oil users and polluters so this is a big deal to me.
again, not the car for you

-I don't want people screwing with me on the freeway, constantly trying to race me, saying shit to me in parking lots, keying my car, or anything else. I'm 30 but I look 20, so I have to deal with the young looking M3 owner issues from other peoples envy/jealousy/anger, I don't want speeding tickets from bully-cops (not one ticket in 9 years of driving a 323Ci then 330i at a constant 90mph all over the bay area freeways and no radar detector) and I want to maintain a low profile.
your not driving a Gallardo, get over yourself, no one is really going to stop and point at a stock M3, it's actually quite a subtle and understated car until you take a closer look

So.. While I'm quite sure that the M3 is the superior car, it isn't necessarily right for everyone and thus this isn't just about economics. BUT... I know very well that all of my above bitching might fly out the door after spending 24 hours driving the M3 around .
You might love the M3, but I doubt it. Why are you even considering it, you sound quite sold on something more relaxed all the time. Earlier criticism of the car was that it was too soft, too removed, too refined, too accessible. Your getting flack because your complaint list sounds sorta petty and prissy to an auto enthusiasts.
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      01-21-2009, 12:35 AM   #26
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alot of us have been through our 335i/xi days and decided that it was worth while to make a switch.
I get that.. I'm just researching, gathering opinions. I'm not bashing, just expressing my impressions after a very short experience with the M3 and hoping to get feedback, not flames, on those impressions from people who actually own the car.

Part of going through the "335i" days is adapting to a great car and needing more. I adapted to my 323Ci, and thought the 330i was amazing.. Now I need more, and I'm trying to figure out if that step should be the 335i or M3...

I'll just rent it, drive it for a day and decide as others have done. No need for people to get touchy -- again I'm not bashing, just expressing my first impressions...
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      01-21-2009, 12:36 AM   #27
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Uh maybe you missed my first post. I've owned a 3-series (2000 323Ci and e46 330i) for the past 9 years plus a 2000 Boxster S for a few years. I probably won't drive anything but BMW and I assure you that I "get" it. The question here isn't BMW or not, the question for me is 335i or M3. I fully appreciate my MT e46 330i around every corner, every mountain road, on every highway, at every stop light, and would be bored as hell in any other kind of car. I've test driven the Audi S5: boring. Mercedes are SMG: I need MT, and Mercedes are dull anyway.

However soft you think the M3 is, the 335i is softer as a DD -- so that's my question, is whether or not I want the M3 as a DD or a 335i. Sorry that you've got such blinders on for the M3 that you can't even answer a question or consider opinions that differ with your own.
Okay.. it's obvious everyone jumped down your throat over this.. myself included. So please, lets try to keep this civil. I understand the purpose of your post however, the people on this post.. well most of them.. are really huge M3 enthusiasts and the sights, sounds, smells and experiences of the M3 are what gets their hearts pumping. The 335i is a great car. I have a friend who has one and it's a torque monster. The thing is, it doesn't have that extra little bit of charisma the M3 has. Driving the 335 then getting into the M3 feels strange. Something about the M3 just makes my spine tingle. As many others has stated.. many of the things you said you didn't like about the M3 are the main reasons I now have one on order. The M3 isn't for everyone. It's your money.. if you don't have the love please don't waste your money. Just trying to help.
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      01-21-2009, 12:41 AM   #28
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You might love the M3, but I doubt it. Why are you even considering it, you sound quite sold on something more relaxed all the time. Earlier criticism of the car was that it was too soft, too removed, too refined, too accessible. Your getting flack because your complaint list sounds sorta petty and prissy to an auto enthusiasts.
Appreciate the feedback. I might not be a purist, but I'm certainly an enthusiast, which is why I've owned BMW's for 9 years and drive a 330i MT Sport/Prem that I picked up in Munich, and not a 325i Auto/non-sport or a Toyota Camry.

I've seen threads on here that, individually, talk about all of the issues I raised in my first post including Why do people hate M3's? regarding a guy getting harassed in a parking lot. So yeah, I lumped all the bitching into one post, but it's not like I'm saying anything new.. Just interested in M3 owners' thoughts is all.
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      01-21-2009, 01:02 AM   #29
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I think it comes down to the motor. You either like the idea of the S65 or not. If not, get a 335i with motons and brakes

I think the fact that you have not elected to own an M in the past is a good sign you probably will not be happy with the compromises designed into M cars. Though I will say the E9X M (in the garage for a month now) is pretty much light years more a DD than the E46M3 (which I've owned for 6 years and is sitting next to the E90 right now). This could even be the last real M car, though many would argue the last M car was the E30M3.

Another very good reason to own something with the S65 in it is that it is probably the last NA V8 high output motor except for the GM small blocks.

I've enjoyed the 335i loaners. They are excellent cars, but just excellent. Excellent is not what gets me up in the morning.
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      01-21-2009, 01:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Thought this forum was for M3 discussion, not just diehard M3 fans. Questioning the almighty M3 doesn't make me a troll nor does me being new to this forum....
This forum IS for M3 discussion, in fact many M3 owners share problems/complaints they have with their vehicles. Your post seems mostly bashing not genuine intrest in feedback from M owners. I mean really, the steering wheel is too thick, I can't see over the huge hump, the car is too loud, too flashy.... blah, blah, blah... It sounds like you already made up your mind, so why post these 'imperfections'? You have to understand that M3 vs 335 threads have become quite tiresome.
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      01-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #31
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Nope...sorry...I dont feel the same way as you do...I love my gas guzzling, screaming V8...the way I look at it...if you can afford the gas for your car...then why buy that car? Global warming....yeah...thats BS....come live in Germany....not warm at all here right now...
OT here, but by that logic please explain why it's been over 90 degrees in parts of LA in mid January?
Just because it's cold in a certain part of the world doesn't mean there is NO global warming going on, LOL
Guess all the ice caps and glaciers are just temporarily melting away for the past 20-30 years.

As for the topic at hand, wow, it's amazing how harsh people are on this M3 forum.
I can appreciate what the guy is asking and applaud him for his honesty and apparent responsible attitude.

Drive the M3 again. There are people who love the Honda S2000 for it's racy abilities too and then there are people who can't take the buzzing racket it makes. But at the same time they WANT the performance, handling and fun that car offers too.
If they offered the S2000 with a small (say 2.8 liter 6 cylinder) that made the same 225-230 hp but more torque and was a bit smoother, quieter and "refined" I'm sure their would be boatloads of people who'd of choosen that version instead, even IF it didn't handle quite as well since it would be a bit more front heavy.

To me, sounds like you want the best of both worlds between the M3 and the 335i.
Hard to get.
But the closest you can come is getting the 335i, add a plug and play tune to it for $600-700 and make it equally as fast in a straight line, but be more "relaxed" as you want and still get 19-20 mpg on average to spirited mixed driving, and 26-27 mpg highway crusing at 80-85 mph.
Then throw on a set of suspension, some nice wheels and you'll have a car that will handle better than the stock 335i but still not as good as the M3.
The suspension should not have any warranty issues.
The tune comes off in 30 minutes with 2-3 small tools kept in the trunk if you need to remove it before taking it to the dealer.

Then if you ever want to go to the track or want even more sporty 335i, add upgraded brake pads, lines and fluid for less fade and more grippy braking.
Add a larger FMIC for better cooling a bit more power and keeping boost from dropping off from heat soak.

In those cases based on what you've described you should be good to go.

I'm a different case myself, I love both the M3 and 335i.
I love high revving engines and the M3's V8 but also love turbocharged power and the low end torque and thrust it provides.

To me if the M3 goes Forced induction in the future, which I'm sure it will, would be a dream.

A 3.3-3.5 liter twin turbo I6 that revs to 7500 rpms but has 4-6 psi boost and makes 430-440 hp and 400 lbs feet of torque plus gets a combined 17-18 mpg and is 100-150 lbs lighter than the current M3.
Sign me up!
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      01-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #32
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I think it comes down to the motor. You either like the idea of the S65 or not. If not, get a 335i with motons and brakes

I think the fact that you have not elected to own an M in the past is a good sign you probably will not be happy with the compromises designed into M cars. Though I will say the E9X M (in the garage for a month now) is pretty much light years more a DD than the E46M3 (which I've owned for 6 years and is sitting next to the E90 right now). This could even be the last real M car, though many would argue the last M car was the E30M3.

Another very good reason to own something with the S65 in it is that it is probably the last NA V8 high output motor except for the GM small blocks.

I've enjoyed the 335i loaners. They are excellent cars, but just excellent. Excellent is not what gets me up in the morning.
Thanks. 5 years ago before I owned my 2004 330i, I didn't feel comfortable looking at an M economically. And since then, I've just been satisfied with my 330i and focusing on savings, so I haven't looked at any other cars. Now, I just want to make sure I fully explore the M3 as an option -- I don't want regrets later.
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      01-21-2009, 01:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by techimo View Post
I get that.. I'm just researching, gathering opinions. I'm not bashing, just expressing my impressions after a very short experience with the M3 and hoping to get feedback, not flames, on those impressions from people who actually own the car.

Part of going through the "335i" days is adapting to a great car and needing more. I adapted to my 323Ci, and thought the 330i was amazing.. Now I need more, and I'm trying to figure out if that step should be the 335i or M3...

I'll just rent it, drive it for a day and decide as others have done. No need for people to get touchy -- again I'm not bashing, just expressing my first impressions...
No one is saying that you are bashing. It doesn't matter to me whether you picked the N54 vs S65.

I've driven both extensively (had an E90 335xi for a full year and then had an E92 335xi coupe for about 8 months, now just picked up the E92 M3). I thought my switch from the 335 to the M was a justified one in terms of upgraded interior, more technology, better suspension, linear power delivery of the V8, etc. I actually told you the same thing on E90Post when you first posted. You can make the 335 go really fast with a couple bolt on mods, which the M3 is not capable of. You also have loads of TQ throughout the powerband, so taking over other cars on the highway is effortless. You can also throw in some BMW Performance suspension, M3 control arms, subframe bushings and strut tower brace to get close to M3 handling. In modding the 335xi, I realized that I really wanted the M3 all along. I love the handling, the sound of the engine, how easy it is to rev, the precise turn in, and the more aggressive styling of the M.

GO try out both for a longer period of time and see which one you like better.
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      01-21-2009, 01:09 AM   #34
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Here we go again.
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      01-21-2009, 01:12 AM   #35
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OT here, but by that logic please explain why it's been over 90 degrees in parts of LA in mid January?
Just because it's cold in a certain part of the world doesn't mean there is NO global warming going on, LOL
Guess all the ice caps and glaciers are just temporarily melting away for the past 20-30 years.
I was going to say the same thing: 70 deg record temps here in the SF bay area, but didn't want to go OT .

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As for the topic at hand, wow, it's amazing how harsh people are on this M3 forum.
I can appreciate what the guy is asking and applaud him for his honesty and apparent responsible attitude.
Appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Drive the M3 again. There are people who love the Honda S2000 for it's racy abilities too and then there are people who can't take the buzzing racket it makes. But at the same time they WANT the performance, handling and fun that car offers too.
If they offered the S2000 with a small (say 2.8 liter 6 cylinder) that made the same 225-230 hp but more torque and was a bit smoother, quieter and "refined" I'm sure their would be boatloads of people who'd of choosen that version instead, even IF it didn't handle quite as well since it would be a bit more front heavy.
Yes I will definitely drive it again. Going to rent it for 24 hours and really get a good feel for it.

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To me, sounds like you want the best of both worlds between the M3 and the 335i.
Hard to get.
But the closest you can come is getting the 335i, add a plug and play tune to it for $600-700 and make it equally as fast in a straight line, but be more "relaxed" as you want and still get 19-20 mpg on average to spirited mixed driving, and 26-27 mpg highway crusing at 80-85 mph.
Then throw on a set of suspension, some nice wheels and you'll have a car that will handle better than the stock 335i but still not as good as the M3.
The suspension should not have any warranty issues.
The tune comes off in 30 minutes with 2-3 small tools kept in the trunk if you need to remove it before taking it to the dealer.
Yes that's exactly what I was thinking as well. I think the 335i chipped will probably get me what I want, though I don't know if the comments at e90post regarding bmw tracking chipped cars for warranty issues, fuel pump and wastegate issues on the 335i, are deal breakers are not. My dilemma, though, is that I can get a new 2008 M3 for only $3,000 more than a 2009 335i over a 3 year lease, so that put me into a decision paralysis that it would be dumb not to get the M3 for that value, but I have to get what fits me best.

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A 3.3-3.5 liter twin turbo I6 that revs to 7500 rpms but has 4-6 psi boost and makes 430-440 hp and 400 lbs feet of torque plus gets a combined 17-18 mpg and is 100-150 lbs lighter than the current M3.
Sign me up!
Agreed. That would be amazing.
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      01-21-2009, 01:47 AM   #36
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The 09' 335i fits you better. You'll probably enjoy the new i-Drive more than the driving experience offered by the 08' ///M3.
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      01-21-2009, 10:28 AM   #37
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That's right -- ridicule a person because he doesn't share your viewpoint. You feel big now huh.

A) You're an ass. I could buy a fleet of M3's, one in every color and park them as far as I could see down my block, 'cept I'm into saving money not wasting it as I've worked hard for every penny as you all have, and I want value like anyone else..

We're VERY impressed now.

You clearly don't seem to have any passion for the M3, so I think you'll be happier in the long run with something else. A loaded 335i is a very, very nice car with excellent performance. IMHO, that's what most people should buy. OTOH, if you're like me and nothing else will do, then the M3 is the way to go.

BTW, I put 1,700 miles on my M3 in the first 3-days, with my wife riding shotgun and a load of luggage in the back. It's a wonderful cruiser. I hit 105 mph a few times and she didn't even realize it. That's a big part of the beauty of the M3, it can be a great, civilized cruiser but then you can push a button and it's a no-compromise racer. No other car pulls off the dual personality so well, IME.

I averaged 78-mph, including stops and the mileage, per the computer, was 17.9 mpg. In one section of the trip I averaged 65-mph, with no stops over about 1-hour, and the mileage was 25.1 mpg. YMMV.

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      01-21-2009, 10:42 AM   #38
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I can cruise along in my e46 330i at 100 and it's nothing. The 335i feels similar. The M3 at 100 to me, doesn't feel as luxury or effortless at 100.. It feels like a raw race car at that speed, not a luxury-sports car
this is the only part i agree on... my e90 330i felt much smoother at speeds aroud 100kmph-160kmph (60-100mph)
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      01-21-2009, 11:17 AM   #39
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OK, I've got a confession to make.
Before buying my M3 I was going to buy a Porsche. Having had a few of them, I really liked them. I was planning on keeping my X3 as my DD. Went to the Porsche dealer (we only have one here) and flashed on what to expect from them.

I spoke with a friend who told me I should buy an M3. I loved my X3, and the dealer here is great, but I really didn't know squat about the M3. I went to the dealership, and they had exactly what I would want, and without a test ride I bought it.
The 1200 mile break-in was painful, and while the M3 was nice, I really didn't understand exactly what I had bought.

After the break-in, and by playing with the settings, I've become very familiar with the car. And it just gets better every day.
I have no doubt I bought the right car, and I keep finding excuses to take it instead of the X3.

I don't agree that you have to have some passion to appreciate the M3. That will develop real fast if you are into ultra high performance cars.
Judging by your issues with it, I do doubt it's the car for you. The feel of the steering wheel, sound of the engine, and ride quality at 100+ are what the car is about.
If you are still debating over the 335 vs. M3 after even the briefest test rides, get the 335 and use the spare change to go to Disneyland.
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      01-21-2009, 11:59 AM   #40
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      01-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #41
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Wish I'd bought a 330i, yeah, fact.
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      01-21-2009, 01:21 PM   #42
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Wish I'd bought a 330i, yeah, fact.
Why? That might be very useful to our OP.

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      01-21-2009, 01:57 PM   #43
Mr.Metak2you
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OP, why did you change your thread title? You didn't like the "M3 Imperfections : )"
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      01-21-2009, 02:18 PM   #44
Driver72
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Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
A modified 335i is nothing but a big head ache. Im glad i made the switch.
Hey man, wow after all that crap with Stickyfingers and you got rid of your 335i.
BTW, I don't know of really and head aches from modified 335i's.
Especially tune only ones, there's thousands running around and 99% of them (both I have had too) are fault free.
I remember you had issues with your car I think but wasn't it plugs or something? And as is the case with all cars, some just seem to have a lot of problems...bad eggs occasionally.

The biggest issues with the 335i's were the early ones High Pressure Fuel Pumps. BMW made a few changes and there is basically zero issues with them now, but again, the occasional. Wastegates can rattle, but again BMW has made software changes to solve that in the few that have had issues with them. If the software changes to fix it, they give you new turbos. Not a bad thing.

However, ANY heavily modified car is going to have more issues than a stock or lightly modded one. No matter what car.
If you put all the bolt ons on a 335i plus a tune and beat on the thing, sure you can expect some things to fail sooner than normal.

But again, 99% of people with 335i's and a tune or minor mods have zero issues.
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