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      01-21-2009, 08:32 PM   #23
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***A guilty party raises his hand on thread bumping***

I have to agree with Craig on this one. Some of us do this because it is competition. When you have several other vendors filling up a whole page and yours get left behind, the nature of the beast is that "you are to be forgotten." I personally don't have the time on a daily basis to update threads and answer questions. Thus, I take intervals and do all the threads in one sitting days apart.

You may believe it or not, but people really do PM us regarding the advertising threads. I average about 30-40 PMs per sitting. These people are known to be lurkers. Lurkers are those who don't want to publicly announce their interest. People who don't want to get involved with the drama. Now these lurkers typically search through the first three pages a.k.a. window shopping. What happens to the thread there after? They're not seen by the same lurkers who have a higher ratio in purchasing than the members who are verbal. I hope my last sentence doesn't offend people, but I'm sure other vendors would agree with me on this one. Majority of our business is from these lurkers. So it is essential for vendors to bump their threads. Thing is it does get ugly.

How do you resolve that? Craig mentioned having devoted subsections per vendor. But if you do that it'll create more stress because the consumer will not have the time to click forward and back through all the specials. It would be unfair to the vendors since we're not "technically" allowed to promote outside of the vendor section. Amongst the forums Euro Dyne is present at (10 forums to be exact: E90post, Zpost, M3post, MFest, Bimmerfest, Bimmerforums, BMWvsMBZ, 1addicts, E60, and M3Forums), Bimmerpost (composed of E90, Z, and M3post) is the most expensive to advertise in. We're just trying to get our money's worth.

So what really is the solution? I think it would be best if the vendors on their own would reach an agreed number on bumps. Is that possible? Unlikely, but it is a free market nation where most of us vendors are based in.

Will I apologize for my actions? No, I won't. I can honestly say I have not done anything wrong since I follow forum sponsor rules by sticking in the vendor section, occassionally show people of our products test fitment results in the cosmetic section, and I dare not PM unsolicitted programs to members. For us vendors to continue supporting the fees to keep forums alive, we would need sell products to justify the sponsorship costs.

Not to go off topic here, but can I ask the vendors how often has your threads been attacked by members with your pricing supposedly being too high or ridiculous? How often have your products quality, fitment, etc been ridiculed publicly? How often have you reported these incidents? Was the admin brisk in taking care of the incidents? I am only bringing this issue up because I think it is also a big issue to be looked into. I'm not pointing fingers here, but all Members, Vendors, and Admin all have to ease up and chill =)...I'll be the first to admit, this is just the interwebs and keeping my cool at times can be so hard to do...but I'll die trying ...
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      01-22-2009, 02:17 AM   #24
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Like I said, I understand that vendors pay to be on here and also should have an opportunity to showcase their products.

However, bumping 10-15 consecutive items is very annoying.

Also, like I said, there should be an "opt-out" function. It feels like spamming when the ones that do it, do it EVERY DAY and MULTIPLE TIMES a day.

Can we limit these posts to be in the For Sale forum and not have them post to "New Posts"? If people want to look for items for sale, they goto specific forums.

For example, look at this vendor that JUST did it. It is sooo---> annoying.
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      01-22-2009, 02:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig@SupremePower View Post
I'll chime in as well because i do it everyday and find it laughable we have clowns here who do it too pointing others out!!!! I've suggested to Jason personally and a few of his moderators to simply take the time to make a specific sub forum for each vendor and you'll get no such bumping occuring daily and we can all list what we like in our own sub forum. Instead of wasting time writing a program to limit our bumps daily try doing this as i've been on many forums through the years with this type of set up. Unless of course you wanna write a code to limit how much this forum costs to be a vendor on????

My apologies to anyone this somehow offends but we all have a significant financial commitment here and thus want our threads seen!
Craig,
Thanks for chiming in. Yes, you are one of the culprits, and yes, I am glad you are at least being constructive and offering suggestions.

And to be honest with you, I actually do look at your posts.

But it's useless to us if vendors post "PMs replied" when the system has a pop-up that notifies when people have PMs in their mailbox. No need to everyday post with "PMs replied" when in actually, it's just bumping the thread.

Like I said, thanks for chiming in and explaining your situation. At least you are being constructive with ideas.
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      01-22-2009, 02:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
please Mark! can u limit JLevi's posts to 1 post per day. we already know what that post is "we have it, PM sent"
LOL
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      01-22-2009, 02:49 AM   #27
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No problem man... i'm aware of the notifications for PM's but its definately two fold in that i allow people to know i replied as well as bumping our threads. I didn't however think of it in the context of the new posts feature. I can't speak for others but when I do it I'm not exactly trying to upset forum members just doing it to bring our posts up top and into view. I also don't agree with how we have some vendors in here pointing fingers at others when first and for most it's not professional to do so to other paying vendors and second its easy for others (I'll take the chance to be a dick also and make my point) like tischer to judge when their the only OEM parts show in town on this forum. They don't need to bump their threads because simply put you have no competition here for business. I'll stress again my opinion of separate sub forums, it will eliminate the bumping and allow customers to check what particular vendors they use have to offer without the hassle of sifting through the other posts in the vendor area!




Quote:
Originally Posted by e92phreak View Post
Craig,
Thanks for chiming in. Yes, you are one of the culprits, and yes, I am glad you are at least being constructive and offering suggestions.

And to be honest with you, I actually do look at your posts.

But it's useless to us if vendors post "PMs replied" when the system has a pop-up that notifies when people have PMs in their mailbox. No need to everyday post with "PMs replied" when in actually, it's just bumping the thread.

Like I said, thanks for chiming in and explaining your situation. At least you are being constructive with ideas.
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      01-22-2009, 03:32 AM   #28
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Holy ffuucccck. 57 threads bumped. Is this a record? it took me 4 screen shots just to get it all. god dam.

i see like 5 threads just about the aero lip, and another 3..4 about mtech front, and a whole lot of other that im too lazy to go through. Is it really necessary to have 5 threads about one product. And 2 customer satisfaction threads? People barley posted in the first one, why bother creating another.

i hate to rant but its such a pain in the ass getting through bs threads like these.





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      01-22-2009, 04:57 AM   #29
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wow. that's stupid.
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      01-22-2009, 07:56 AM   #30
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Just to re-iterate: There is no debate, thread bump limits are coming to the vendors section, I just have to iron out some kinks in it and get it up and running, hopefully sometime next week.
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      01-22-2009, 10:52 AM   #31
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Their is no debate simply suggestions on how to make the forum better, some of which are by people paying to be here!! That is after all what this section is for...



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
Just to re-iterate: There is no debate, thread bump limits are coming to the vendors section, I just have to iron out some kinks in it and get it up and running, hopefully sometime next week.
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      01-22-2009, 11:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
No problem man... i'm aware of the notifications for PM's but its definately two fold in that i allow people to know i replied as well as bumping our threads. I didn't however think of it in the context of the new posts feature. I can't speak for others but when I do it I'm not exactly trying to upset forum members just doing it to bring our posts up top and into view. I also don't agree with how we have some vendors in here pointing fingers at others when first and for most it's not professional to do so to other paying vendors and second its easy for others (I'll take the chance to be a dick also and make my point) like tischer to judge when their the only OEM parts show in town on this forum. They don't need to bump their threads because simply put you have no competition here for business. I'll stress again my opinion of separate sub forums, it will eliminate the bumping and allow customers to check what particular vendors they use have to offer without the hassle of sifting through the other posts in the vendor area!
LOL...how did I know Craig was going to take it personally when I mentioned the t-shirt post with 8 pages of "PM's replied." Perhaps some feelings of guilt eh? I was in no way trying to be a d*ck to you personally (I would've mentioned your company if I was trying to do that).....I was simply pointing out how ridiculous this issue has gotten lately.....and that t-shirt thread that happens to be yours (that I've already bumped for you in the past to show our support) was one of the many that immediately came to mind. If anything is unprofessional, it would be your 'clown' comment. Also, you state we don't need to bump our threads since we have no competition (and I don't think we've ever been guilty of a "PM's replied" bump unless it was a sarcastic bump referring to the issue at hand)....but why do you bump your t-shirt thread almost everday??? There is zero competition for your t-shirt my friend.....unless another vendor here is selling YOUR shirts at a discount or something behind your back.

Believe it or not, I read most threads as well....however in most threads....there is nothing of value to read except for the initial posting....followed by countless, pointless vendor bumps. Q. Why does any vendor here bump a thread with "PM's replied"??? It's really pointless to say it's to alert others that their PM's have been replied when the site presents a new PM pop-up, and the settings allow for an email to be dispatched to a member when they have a new PM. No one needs to know you've replied to some PM's as we all do that......hopefully everyone does at least.

Also, just because we are the only BMW dealership smart enough, or willing to put forth the time, effort, and money to sponsor this forum, along w/ many others.....you're mistaken if you think we don't have competition. The doors are wide open for any other BMW dealership to become a sponsor here. Besides, we get asked to price match other dealerships everyday that aren't even paying to be here. Also, any vendor selling replicas or OE parts are our competition. They even have what could be considered an advantage since their cost on those items is significantly less than ours, and the price-point at which they can sell them can be significantly less as well. It's just honestly too bad for all of us that price usually is the deciding factor when a customer shops online.....instead of shopping for excellent customer service and support....something that we, and I'm sure most vendors here, pride ourselves on.

Now that I've put my 2 cents in, I'll offer up a few ideas as well that could clean things up around here.

1). A simple rule that pointless bumping is not permitted. (i.e. pm's replied, ttt, orders shipped, etc. etc.) A sponsor can only bump a thread when answering a question, providing an update or new announcement, help, etc. If this rule is not followed, plain and simple: BAN THE VENDOR
2.) A separate sub-forum for each vendor to showcase their products. Bump your hearts out in your own sub-forum.
3.) A program that does not allow the vendor's replies to bump their own thread. The only way a thread gets bumped is if another member replies to it. A vendor can answer all the questions they want, and put "Pm's replied" all they want, but with no effect other than making the thread longer and more difficult for the consumer to find the info they are looking for.
4.) No threads bump to the top upon any reply. Remember, you can always buy stickies for the top of the forum. This is how it works on another forum we are on....and although it's frustrating at times, especially when you see your threads dissappear, the issue we are discussing is non-existent there.

Quote:
How do you resolve that? Craig mentioned having devoted subsections per vendor. But if you do that it'll create more stress because the consumer will not have the time to click forward and back through all the specials. It would be unfair to the vendors since we're not "technically" allowed to promote outside of the vendor section.
I think Craig is right on with this idea....and it's something we've mentioned before as well. Could you elaborate on how it would create more stress? and how the consumer will not have time to click forward and back through all the specials? I'm just not sure what you mean here; and if anything, I'd think it'd organize the site and make it easy for the consumer and the vendor. The consumer would easily be able to find all of the vendor's offerings, and the vendor wouldn't have to search through pages and pages for their older threads.

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      01-22-2009, 11:40 AM   #33
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I think this is great debate in the correct section of the site that can only make this a better place for all of us.
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      01-22-2009, 12:02 PM   #34
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There is no question something has to be done. I like the idea of having a sub-forum for each vendor.

I'm not going to say I don't bump my threads all at the same time because I do...but I only do it every 5-7 days when my threads are on the 5th page because of other vendors constantly bumping their threads (sometimes multiple times a day for the same ones!).

The one thing I see being a problem is how are you going to control the order in which the vendors appear? I'm sure someone is going to complain when they're at the bottom. There could be some sort of cycle where the vendor order changes up every week or so?

Anyways, I'm eager to see the solution. Hopefully we get something in place before the end of the month.

I laughed when Evan posted up, "why do vendors have to announce PM's have been replied."

Maybe it will change to, "Vendor has logged in."

Edit: one more thing I find aggravating is the fact that some vendors create a thread for EVERY single part from a specific manufacturer. Try to combine them into one thread unless it's a special offer!
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      01-22-2009, 12:53 PM   #35
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classsic. But to be a vendor you know the pain and game of comp.
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      01-22-2009, 12:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlineMotorworks View Post
Edit: one more thing I find aggravating is the fact that some vendors create a thread for EVERY single part from a specific manufacturer. Try to combine them into one thread unless it's a special offer!
Yep, agreed 110%. What would happen if we posted a new thread for every single part BMW has available at a special price?

= System malfunction

I think that the bottom line here is that just like with anything else - there's always a right way and a wrong way to do things. It's unfortunate that there are those who have a hard time differentiating between the two, so some changes will have to be made. For most of us, it's not that diffucult to be reasonable and respect other vendors' need for presence and space within the Sponsors forum. Of course we're all in competition here, but each of us has his/her own way of contributing to the community as well.

Regardless of what changes are made, the supporting vendors of this forum will still need to be mindful of each others' right to advertising space. Remember - although the forum does need our support, we also need the forum to bring in those dollars. Otherwise, none of us would be paying to be here.

Peace
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      01-22-2009, 01:25 PM   #37
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Evan I didn't take anything personally but of course i'm going to respond when you do everything but call me out personally. I'm not here to argue with any admin's or vendors as I'm simply a representative of Eric's business. I think the goal of all active members here is to make the forum the best it can be and in that regard I hope the admin's take our suggestion of subforums seriously. I that regard I don't necessarily believe a cycle system is needed, simply put us all in alphabetical order and list all vendors... bumping would be completely eliminated! Again to anyone who's taken offense my sincerest apologies....
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      01-22-2009, 01:30 PM   #38
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All PMs replied!
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      01-22-2009, 01:40 PM   #39
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A sub-forum for each vendor will be awesome.
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      01-22-2009, 01:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlineMotorworks View Post
I'm not going to say I don't bump my threads all at the same time because I do...but I only do it every 5-7 days when my threads are on the 5th page because of other vendors constantly bumping their threads (sometimes multiple times a day for the same ones!).
I 100% agree. It's a necessary evil just to keep on the radar here. There's some posts that are 4-5 pages of nothing but the same vendor bumping for weeks with no other replies.

Subforums won't really help since the "new posts" link would still pull up threads that have been replied to - the primary reason this thread even exists. Bumping is not bad in moderate levels, but examples like 57 threads in a row is out of hand.

I really hope Mark can come up with a solution that will satisfy everyone.
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      01-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #41
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I agree with the points that Evan and Craig make.
Also, I totally feel what Jo is talking about.

I really don't have the man power or the time to make as many threads and bump them on a regular basis. if anything, some members got mad that I wasn't able to reply... need a new hire~~ But, I think that grouping some of the products together will really help out.

I like the alphabetical method... no need to rotate in my opinion.
But perhaps, gold members can have sub-forums, while the non-gold can have one general forum, as they are limited in number of threads anyway.

My 2 cents.....
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      01-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenmann Equipped View Post
All PMs replied!
Oh no he di int

Alphabetical order is fine....we are now changing our name to Aredline Motorworks...
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      01-22-2009, 02:25 PM   #43
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Thats a nice idea too...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius@WheelSTO View Post
I

But perhaps, gold members can have sub-forums, while the non-gold can have one general forum, as they are limited in number of threads anyway.

My 2 cents.....
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      01-22-2009, 02:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3 View Post
Holy ffuucccck... Is it really necessary to have 5 threads about one product.
It caught your attention LOL J/K
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