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      01-12-2009, 07:27 PM   #1
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Should i upgrade?

Heya,

i m considering about a little upgrade for my soundsystem.

i ve bought my M3 with the Individual(some call it "Premium")-System. I m not truely happy with the subs (not enaugh shaking my stomach) and therefor i m going to upgrade the subs beneath the frontseats to SWS8 Earthshakers with a matching amp in the trunk.

i would like to know your opinion.
As far as i know some boardmembers allready upgraded this and i d especially like to adress them: "how" hugh is this difference between individual "stock" and the SWS8?

Might i need to add another passiv sub in the trunk to get a really noticeable upgrade or will these SWS8 make the difference like day and night?
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      01-12-2009, 08:18 PM   #2
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The SWS-8 gives you good mid-bass, but if what you desire is "a punch in your stomach" type of bass, you would need a bigger sub in the trunk. You can do 12" JL's, one on each side of the where the menu and the CD changer are located.
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      01-13-2009, 04:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Heya,

i m considering about a little upgrade for my soundsystem.

i ve bought my M3 with the Individual(some call it "Premium")-System. I m not truely happy with the subs (not enaugh shaking my stomach) and therefor i m going to upgrade the subs beneath the frontseats to SWS8 Earthshakers with a matching amp in the trunk.

i would like to know your opinion.
As far as i know some boardmembers allready upgraded this and i d especially like to adress them: "how" hugh is this difference between individual "stock" and the SWS8?

Might i need to add another passiv sub in the trunk to get a really noticeable upgrade or will these SWS8 make the difference like day and night?
You shouldn't expect glass shattering bass from 2 SWS-8s. You'll need something that can move a little more air for that. You'll want at least a 10" sub or two in the trunk. I had a single 10" sub in my last car that got stupid loud but it wasn't your run of the mill 10" sub. It was a pretty high end sub running off 1500W RMS in a ported enclosure.
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      01-13-2009, 10:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Heya,

i m considering about a little upgrade for my soundsystem.

i ve bought my M3 with the Individual(some call it "Premium")-System. I m not truely happy with the subs (not enaugh shaking my stomach) and therefor i m going to upgrade the subs beneath the frontseats to SWS8 Earthshakers with a matching amp in the trunk.

i would like to know your opinion.
As far as i know some boardmembers allready upgraded this and i d especially like to adress them: "how" hugh is this difference between individual "stock" and the SWS8?

Might i need to add another passiv sub in the trunk to get a really noticeable upgrade or will these SWS8 make the difference like day and night?
So far, a sub in the trunk and a swap of the OEM woofers with SWS-8 or the Audio System AX 08 BMW 20cm Subwoofer (in Europe) is the best way to get both a stronger and better sub and mid bass in our cars.

There are ways to install bigger subs under the seats, which I'm currently looking at. I tried the trunk sub thing and I'm really don't like to compromise the trunk space, and the central location for woofers in the E9x is perfect for some custom job and still be effective and stealth.
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      01-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #5
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The Individual 8" woofers have a 3" voice coil. They are better than the SWS8. Try using a more powerful amplifier instead of the factory one.

I took my car apart to replace the woofers, took one out to inspect, then promptly re installed the woofer once I realized how well it was built compared to anything aftermarket that would fit.
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      01-13-2009, 11:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
The Individual 8" woofers have a 3" voice coil. They are better than the SWS8. Try using a more powerful amplifier instead of the factory one.

I took my car apart to replace the woofers, took one out to inspect, then promptly re installed the woofer once I realized how well it was built compared to anything aftermarket that would fit.
The size of the voicecoil is not the only thing that matters it's how you use it

Seriously though, the size of the voicecoil doesn't really say much about the sound quality of a woofer. It does usually mean it can handle a good amount of power but that's really the only information you can gather from voicecoil size.
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      01-13-2009, 11:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
So far, a sub in the trunk and a swap of the OEM woofers with SWS-8 or the Audio System AX 08 BMW 20cm Subwoofer (in Europe) is the best way to get both a stronger and better sub and mid bass in our cars.

There are ways to install bigger subs under the seats, which I'm currently looking at. I tried the trunk sub thing and I'm really don't like to compromise the trunk space, and the central location for woofers in the E9x is perfect for some custom job and still be effective and stealth.
I myself have been looking at several options from 9"-10" subs. The 9" subs I'm looking at are made for IB applications so that is a definite possibility but the 10" subs are sealed box subs which require 0.6 cu ft of air space so that might be a little difficult to obtain in the under seat locations.

What subs have you been looking at to get under the seats.
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      01-13-2009, 12:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIS4 View Post
I myself have been looking at several options from 9"-10" subs. The 9" subs I'm looking at are made for IB applications so that is a definite possibility but the 10" subs are sealed box subs which require 0.6 cu ft of air space so that might be a little difficult to obtain in the under seat locations.

What subs have you been looking at to get under the seats.
The SWS-10... they are slightly bigger in diameter -but 3mm shallower- than the Morel Elate 9 that was custom fitted in a E90 330i some time ago. The SWS-10 should work as well as the SWS-8 in around a .5ft³ space using the side sill OEM ports.
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      01-13-2009, 01:52 PM   #9
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Hey Technic, you still think we'd be missing the midbass if we didn't upgrade the 8" subs under the seat and just added a 10" sub in the trunk?
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      01-13-2009, 02:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemcoska View Post
Hey Technic, you still think we'd be missing the midbass if we didn't upgrade the 8" subs under the seat and just added a 10" sub in the trunk?
I think that there is plenty of midbass (up to 250Hz-300Hz) in the SWS-8, but only if you tweak it with an EQ between the 140Hz and 200Hz bands. What the SWS-8 lacks is the borderline subsonic bass between 20Hz and 35Hz, IMO. That's where a 10"+ proper sub do its "thing".

You will need some serious 4" mid drivers to have real midbass out of them, and most probably they will not fit in the OEM mounts, so the SWS-8 got to do it instead. In my Premium system, the OEM 4" component drivers are pretty solid down to 150Hz, but lower than that you will notice that the upper midbass will be gone. So I crossover the SWS-8 at 150Hz, and increase the gain a little in between the 140Hz and 200Hz bands for the 4" drivers, for that mid "punch".

I think that I blew one of the OEM crossovers trying to test how low the 4" OEM drivers can go with 150W RMS...
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      01-13-2009, 02:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The SWS-10... they are slightly bigger in diameter -but 3mm shallower- than the Morel Elate 9 that was custom fitted in a E90 330i some time ago. The SWS-10 should work as well as the SWS-8 in around a .5ft³ space using the side sill OEM ports.
If been looking for some detailed info about that enclosure for the 330 install but never found any. I want to know how exactly they were able to get that enclosure in there and what the air space was.

Here's another sub that I found that is shallower than the Morel 9" and about the same depth as the SWS-10. Its a Diamond Audio HEX S10. It actually looks very similar to an SWS sub but with a larger voicecoil and a cast frame.


http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/169/187/

Another possibility is an RE Audio SL-10. Not sure if this one can be done IB or not but its just as deep as the Morel.

http://www.reaudio.com/specs.html#sp_sl

The shallow sub choices really open up if you move up to 10" but the problem is air space and how to mount it under the seat.
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      01-13-2009, 03:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIS4 View Post
If been looking for some detailed info about that enclosure for the 330 install but never found any. I want to know how exactly they were able to get that enclosure in there and what the air space was.

Here's another sub that I found that is shallower than the Morel 9" and about the same depth as the SWS-10. Its a Diamond Audio HEX S10. It actually looks very similar to an SWS sub but with a larger voicecoil and a cast frame.


http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/169/187/

Another possibility is an RE Audio SL-10. Not sure if this one can be done IB or not but its just as deep as the Morel.

http://www.reaudio.com/specs.html#sp_sl

The shallow sub choices really open up if you move up to 10" but the problem is air space and how to mount it under the seat.
The SWS line of subs are described here: http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/C...sws_manual.pdf

The Morel Elate 9 instalation was done here... http://www.sound-in-motion.com/installs/bmw_330xi.html

...for this car: http://www.janixworld.com/330xi/stereo/post/

The Morel specs are here: http://www.morelhifi.com/products/mo...s_elatesw.html

So in paper... if only the opening of that mounting plate is bigger in diameter by less than 1.5" a SWS-10 could fit as well as that Morel 9".
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      01-13-2009, 03:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The SWS line of subs are described here: http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/C...sws_manual.pdf

The Morel Elate 9 instalation was done here... http://www.sound-in-motion.com/installs/bmw_330xi.html

...for this car: http://www.janixworld.com/330xi/stereo/post/

The Morel specs are here: http://www.morelhifi.com/products/mo...s_elatesw.html

So in paper... if only the opening of that mounting plate is bigger in diameter by less than 1.5" a SWS-10 could fit as well as that Morel 9".
Well, according to the specs, the cutout diameter of the SWS-10 is about 203mm. The total diameter of the Elate 9 is 222mm so it seems like they are pretty close in size. The Diamond Audio HEX S10 is slightly larger at 236mm cutout diameter and 266mm total diameter. The RE SL10 is about the same as the Diamond so maybe those two are a little too large to fit.

That Elate 9 enclosure says vented so I assume they made another IB enclosure for it and are venting it out the side similar to the OEM. It seems like they are actually using it for midbass rather than a subwoofer because the car has a sub in the trunk.
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      01-13-2009, 04:15 PM   #14
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FIrst of all, thank a lot for all the hints and help i got.

I think i will go for the two SWS8 under the frontseats and a sub in the trunk.

But i ve no clue what manufacturer and product i should prefer ( please help)

Just saw this youtube video (showing the SWS8 Earthquake, which look very valuable with this kind of "metalmembran"):
[u2b]<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxVOU5epNKQ&hl=de&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x99 9999"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxVOU5epNKQ&hl=de&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x99 9999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>[/u2b]

I ve according to my nationality a europe e92m3 and i were told that there were differences in the soundsystem.
Also we have other price/value - relations here in europe (the "cheapest" SWS8 Earthquake costs 180€ ~ 240$ )

I m also considering between installing it by myself or asking a company for it. I m not sure how many problems might occure and how difficult the adjustments will be.
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      01-13-2009, 04:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIS4 View Post
Well, according to the specs, the cutout diameter of the SWS-10 is about 203mm. The total diameter of the Elate 9 is 222mm so it seems like they are pretty close in size. The Diamond Audio HEX S10 is slightly larger at 236mm cutout diameter and 266mm total diameter. The RE SL10 is about the same as the Diamond so maybe those two are a little too large to fit.

That Elate 9 enclosure says vented so I assume they made another IB enclosure for it and are venting it out the side similar to the OEM. It seems like they are actually using it for midbass rather than a subwoofer because the car has a sub in the trunk.
Cutout diameter of the SWS-10 is 224mm, the Morel 9 is 192mm.

That Elate 9 is being used as midbass not only because there is a dedicated sub in the trunk, but if you check its specs its resonant frequency (Fs) is 40Hz, which in effect make it not that great for sub use anyways. There is no Fs stated in the SWS-10, but I think that they stated its Fs as Fo by mistake (28Hz); that will compare with the Elate 10 Fs at 32Hz.

I will start by doing some simulations between the SWS-8 and the SWS-10 and see what max volume I can use under the seat for the best response.
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      01-13-2009, 06:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Cutout diameter of the SWS-10 is 224mm, the Morel 9 is 192mm.

That Elate 9 is being used as midbass not only because there is a dedicated sub in the trunk, but if you check its specs its resonant frequency (Fs) is 40Hz, which in effect make it not that great for sub use anyways. There is no Fs stated in the SWS-10, but I think that they stated its Fs as Fo by mistake (28Hz); that will compare with the Elate 10 Fs at 32Hz.

I will start by doing some simulations between the SWS-8 and the SWS-10 and see what max volume I can use under the seat for the best response.
You're right. I was looking at the SWS-8 specs by mistake.
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      01-13-2009, 10:20 PM   #17
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Here's another interesting 10" possibility.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=106

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      01-13-2009, 11:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIS4 View Post
The size of the voicecoil is not the only thing that matters it's how you use it

Seriously though, the size of the voicecoil doesn't really say much about the sound quality of a woofer. It does usually mean it can handle a good amount of power but that's really the only information you can gather from voicecoil size.
Agreed, however when the last time you saw a crappy woofer with a really large VC & a cast frame?
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      01-13-2009, 11:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
Agreed, however when the last time you saw a crappy woofer with a really large VC & a cast frame?
... that Premium OEM woofer doesn't sound as good or go as deep as a SWS-8. It is simply not as good as you think.

The rest of the Premium OEM drivers are impressive, though.
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      01-13-2009, 11:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIS4 View Post
Here's another interesting 10" possibility.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=106

That looks promising, although is slightly bigger than the SWS-10. However, it got better specs.
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      01-14-2009, 06:07 AM   #21
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Technic, HIS4,

do you have any concrete advise?
10'' Speakers under the seats? you started a discussion about the possibility of speakers and their pro´s and cons, but as far as i unterstood, they were not installed in a m3 yet and might not fight,right?
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      01-14-2009, 10:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Technic, HIS4,

do you have any concrete advise?
10'' Speakers under the seats? you started a discussion about the possibility of speakers and their pro´s and cons, but as far as i unterstood, they were not installed in a m3 yet and might not fight,right?
Right now, your best and easiest to install combo is a sub in the trunk and a pair of SWS-8 under the seats. There also is the Audio System AX 08 BMW 20cm plug 'n play Subwoofer available in Germany, but I don't know how it compares with the SWS-8 in quality, only that it is a much lower power-handling sub (120W max vs. 300W max) than the SWS-8.

The woofers under the seats will take care of the strong low-midbass and the sub in the trunk of the stronger sub bass.

The discussion about installing 10" subs is just to compare ideas and possibilities of not having to install anything in the trunk and let those 2 10" under the seats do both the sub and mid bass duties. Any of the 10" shallow woofers discussed here will require a completely new and custom vented enclosure under the seats, though.
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