Track days and M3 e93 vert

Fiebrudo · 12-15-2008, 01:05 AM

BMW CCA believes it is UNSAFE!!!! and won't allow an e93 unless you add a roll cage!!!!!

Unbelievable!

Where can I go, Porsche CCA (apparently they allow Boxters and 911 verts (I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!) Any other alternatives?

Thanks

Gearhead999s · 12-15-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiebrudo

BMW CCA believes it is UNSAFE!!!! and won't allow an e93 unless you add a roll cage!!!!!

Unbelievable!

Where can I go, Porsche CCA (apparently they allow Boxters and 911 verts (I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!) Any other alternatives?

Thanks

Buy a coupe

youyou · 12-15-2008, 08:04 AM

Go cruising and fill the car up with chicks!

Big Windy · 12-15-2008, 09:07 AM

That is a bit surprising. I haven't looked at crash ratings, but I wonder how the vert top holds up against the CF or moonroof tops in a roll over.

kmac1980 · 12-15-2008, 11:42 AM

its not as strong in a rollover im sure, but the windshield A pillars are reinforced, as well as there are popup roll bars behind each rear seat headrest (the black pieces) that deploy in a roll over....

Gearhead999s · 12-15-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

That is a bit surprising. I haven't looked at crash ratings, but I wonder how the vert top holds up against the CF or moonroof tops in a roll over.

I saw a video of a M-B Sl or SLK with the retractable roof rolling on the Autobaun and the roof came off the car in the 1st impact on the roof.I am pretty sure that the coupe would fare much better whether it has the CF or S/R than the cab.I have refused to instruct in open top cars at track days that have permitted them to run at.

guarnibl · 01-05-2009, 10:48 PM

boo!!!!!!!!!!!

FStop7 · 01-06-2009, 03:53 AM

Most HPDEs don't allow convertibles without full roll bars any more. Don't blame the organizers, blame their insurance. If they could have you participate as-is of course they would, they want as many cars as they can get.

Quote:

(I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!)

What is that supposed to mean? BMWCCA != BMW

Your best hope is that they'll make an exception for the 3 series since it's a hard top vert.

Feffman · 01-08-2009, 08:42 AM

We (www.MVPTrackTime.com) allow some convertibles without roll bars at tracks that allow it, but said convertibles must have the pop-up protection, a hard top or a note in the owners manual describing the front windshield frame as "rollover protection". The only two cars I know of with this note in the owners manual are the Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxster. Of course we highly recommend a roll bar!

This being noted, several tracks are restricting us on this and I think it's only a matter of time before all tracks mandate roll bars in all convertibles. Personally I think it's a good idea to have a roll bar in any convertible you plan to track.

Call me at (314) 249-3770 if you need clarification.

Feff

consolidated · 01-08-2009, 09:36 AM

Most DEs will allow verts with integrated hoops at the seat, look at the Boxster, S2000 and other sport verts and they have a hidden steel hoop around the back of each seat. I've seen cars flip on the track, you don't want to risk being pancaked like that, not to mention the instructor in the right seat.

JJM335 · 01-08-2009, 09:46 AM

The BMWCCA does not allow convertibles of any kind (without specific modifications) due to insurance reasons. They had an incident a while back where an instructor was injured in a vert.

Gearhead999s · 01-29-2009, 11:46 PM

I happened to run across that clip of the SL rolling and the roof coming off.

SlammedM6 · 01-30-2009, 12:08 AM

heres a video to watch
http://www.youtube.com/v/croBCxHmQUc&hl=
Ouch!

aus · 01-30-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slammedm3

heres a video to watch
http://www.youtube.com/v/croBCxHmQUc&hl=
Ouch!

Why were people aplauding in that vid?

aus · 01-30-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I happened to run across that clip of the SL rolling and the roof coming off.

Looks like the dude was able to stumble away on the passenger side.

Kev · 01-31-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

Looks like the dude was able to stumble away on the passenger side.

Thanks to the auto deploy roll bar in the SL. It's one of the coolest features of the car. It might look big and ugly, but it'll save your head when the car rolls.

Feffman · 01-31-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

Thanks to the auto deploy roll bar in the SL. It's one of the coolest features of the car. It might look big and ugly, but it'll save your head when the car rolls.

Summit Point just changed its rules on convertibles, BUT they allow convertibles with the pop-up type systems.

Feff

m3larson · 02-02-2009, 02:18 PM

Nasa will let you attend HPDE1 with a Vert. There was a 911 with the top down running with me.

signes · 02-02-2009, 06:28 PM

Hardtop verts are only marginally safer than cloth tops, which is to say you would be nuts to go flat out on a track in a vert without a cage. Yes, its frustrating but it is unsafe any other way.

DBD777 · 02-22-2009, 11:18 PM

I've run at Putnam and VIR with my E46 vert with the hard top installed. Had to run with the PCA since the BMW club will not allow verts. Its fun outrunning all of the 911's (except the highly modded or GT3's) and I have always been welcomed. Get in touch with the local PCA and see what they say. I have seen numerous 911 cabs running with open tops. Of course it is not as safe as a coupe, but don't see many roll overs. I debated getting a bolt in roll bar to pass the broom stick test but have now opted to go with a dedicated E36 M3 track car. Less worry on breakdowns and if the worse should happen and your insurance does not want to pay, you not out as much money. Good luck.

12-15-2008, 01:05 AM	#1
Fiebrudo Private Drives: M3 Convertible Space Gray E93 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: STL Posts: 52 iTrader: (0)	Track days and M3 e93 vert BMW CCA believes it is UNSAFE!!!! and won't allow an e93 unless you add a roll cage!!!!! Unbelievable! Where can I go, Porsche CCA (apparently they allow Boxters and 911 verts (I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!) Any other alternatives? Thanks
	Tweet

12-15-2008, 08:04 AM	#3
youyou Colonel Drives: Porsche 993 C4S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 2,388 iTrader: (0)	Go cruising and fill the car up with chicks! __________________ Retired-1996 Porsche C4S Polar Silver Retired-2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cab Basalt Black Retired - 2010 S5 Cabriolet Ibis White Retired - 2008 M3 E93 Alpine White Retired - 2007 335 E92 Alpine White

01-05-2009, 10:48 PM	#7
guarnibl Private First Class Drives: 2008 Melbourne Red E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 152 iTrader: (0)	boo!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ 2011 Nissan GT-R Premium 600 whp 2008 Melbourne Red E93 ///M3 (Stock) 2003 Mustang (302 stroker dohc, kenne bell, 900+ rwhp) Last edited by guarnibl; 01-08-2009 at 05:37 PM.

01-08-2009, 08:42 AM	#9
Feffman Grand Poobah Drives: M3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gateway To The West Posts: 274 iTrader: (0)	We (www.MVPTrackTime.com) allow some convertibles without roll bars at tracks that allow it, but said convertibles must have the pop-up protection, a hard top or a note in the owners manual describing the front windshield frame as "rollover protection". The only two cars I know of with this note in the owners manual are the Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxster. Of course we highly recommend a roll bar! This being noted, several tracks are restricting us on this and I think it's only a matter of time before all tracks mandate roll bars in all convertibles. Personally I think it's a good idea to have a roll bar in any convertible you plan to track. Call me at (314) 249-3770 if you need clarification. Feff __________________ MVP Track Time Last edited by Feffman; 01-31-2009 at 02:12 PM.

01-30-2009, 12:08 AM	#13
SlammedM6 Brigadier General Drives: 2011 RR Sport Autobiography Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 4,727 iTrader: (2)	heres a video to watch http://www.youtube.com/v/croBCxHmQUc&hl= Ouch! __________________ *///2008 M6 Coupe* - - SOLD! Eisenmann Race\|RD Springs\|21" 360 Forged Spec 5ive\|CF Front Lip\|CF Lower Mirror Covers\|CF Front & Side Gilles\|8k Low Beams\| 5% Tint, 35%Windshield\|

12-15-2008, 09:07 AM	#4
Big Windy Major General Drives: audi s4 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: seatac, wa Posts: 5,165 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 E92 M3 [0.00] 2000 Saleen S281 Su ... [0.00]	That is a bit surprising. I haven't looked at crash ratings, but I wonder how the vert top holds up against the CF or moonroof tops in a roll over.

12-15-2008, 11:42 AM	#5
kmac1980 Major Drives: '11 535xi, (former '08 M3) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: toronto Posts: 1,002 iTrader: (1)	its not as strong in a rollover im sure, but the windshield A pillars are reinforced, as well as there are popup roll bars behind each rear seat headrest (the black pieces) that deploy in a roll over....

01-08-2009, 09:36 AM	#10
consolidated Major Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,226 iTrader: (1)	Most DEs will allow verts with integrated hoops at the seat, look at the Boxster, S2000 and other sport verts and they have a hidden steel hoop around the back of each seat. I've seen cars flip on the track, you don't want to risk being pancaked like that, not to mention the instructor in the right seat.

01-08-2009, 09:46 AM	#11
JJM335 Second Lieutenant Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: GA Posts: 211 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	The BMWCCA does not allow convertibles of any kind (without specific modifications) due to insurance reasons. They had an incident a while back where an instructor was injured in a vert.

01-29-2009, 11:46 PM	#12
Gearhead999s Major General Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,633 iTrader: (0)	I happened to run across that clip of the SL rolling and the roof coming off.

02-02-2009, 02:18 PM	#18
m3larson First Lieutenant Drives: 2011 Cayenne S 1997 M3 Track C Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 300 iTrader: (0)	Nasa will let you attend HPDE1 with a Vert. There was a 911 with the top down running with me. __________________ The Verdict: Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make M3s instead. -Car and Driver June 2008

02-02-2009, 06:28 PM	#19
signes Colonel Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,288 iTrader: (3)	Hardtop verts are only marginally safer than cloth tops, which is to say you would be nuts to go flat out on a track in a vert without a cage. Yes, its frustrating but it is unsafe any other way.

02-22-2009, 11:18 PM	#20
DBD777 New Member Drives: 2007 328 vert, E36 &46 M3's Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 20 iTrader: (0)	I've run at Putnam and VIR with my E46 vert with the hard top installed. Had to run with the PCA since the BMW club will not allow verts. Its fun outrunning all of the 911's (except the highly modded or GT3's) and I have always been welcomed. Get in touch with the local PCA and see what they say. I have seen numerous 911 cabs running with open tops. Of course it is not as safe as a coupe, but don't see many roll overs. I debated getting a bolt in roll bar to pass the broom stick test but have now opted to go with a dedicated E36 M3 track car. Less worry on breakdowns and if the worse should happen and your insurance does not want to pay, you not out as much money. Good luck.