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      12-18-2008, 11:09 AM   #23
KonigsTiger
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Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
AA does it for 795 i think ... not for 1200
Wow, sorry, my bad then!!
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      12-18-2008, 11:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Haha, compared to what?
Compared to any turbo tune/piggyback application

Your paying about 35$ for each hp with this mod. I wouldn't consider the price crazy but I think anything over 1k is overboard.
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      12-18-2008, 11:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by d_dot View Post
Y cant they make something like the accesport where you can update the car at ur house. who the hell wants to take an ecu out and mail it off and wait for it to come back!!
I completely agree...that would be ideal!
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      12-18-2008, 05:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaLLzZz View Post
Compared to any turbo tune/piggyback application

Your paying about 35$ for each hp with this mod. I wouldn't consider the price crazy but I think anything over 1k is overboard.
Ok, it isn't over 1k and the motor is NA, the gains are going to be less by design and take more work to get, that is obvious. If 900 dollars is expensive, the M3 is not the right car to mod.

The 335 tunes are expensive compared to the Neon-SRT4 or WRX where you can raise boost just by messing with the wastegate for free. There is always a cheaper way to get power.
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      12-18-2008, 08:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Ok, it isn't over 1k and the motor is NA, the gains are going to be less by design and take more work to get, that is obvious. If 900 dollars is expensive, the M3 is not the right car to mod.

The 335 tunes are expensive compared to the Neon-SRT4 or WRX where you can raise boost just by messing with the wastegate for free. There is always a cheaper way to get power.
I already stated that it wasn't over 1k I was simply referring to the competition. And obviously I know the motor is NA or I would not have said "Compared to any turbo tune/piggyback application". I also never stated it was too expensive just stated my opinion on this specific application money vs. hp. You also seem to attack with your responses when mine was non sided.

The 335 tunes have dropped significantly in the last few months. But obviously its going to be more expensive then lower nameplates. That's just a business practice.

100% always a cheaper way to get power. When and if I do get/choose the m3 this will defiantly be on my mod list thanks to you! Hope that changes your thought process on some things. Thanks again for the data.
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      12-18-2008, 11:55 PM   #28
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I can't find the powerchip anywhere? I'm in the Chicagoland area. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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      12-19-2008, 12:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta View Post
no thats what it cost when they first introduced it...it now costs $995 from Jlevi, I believe this is for the month of December only so not sure what reg price is....
here ... $795 , Jlevi is not the only one place to shop

http://www.**********s.com/product.a...are_E9X_M3_MW2
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      12-19-2008, 08:48 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
I can't find the powerchip anywhere? I'm in the Chicagoland area. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Contact Evosport
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      12-20-2008, 03:14 PM   #31
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What octane of fuel is needed after reflashing with a powerchip tune? Will it be ok to fill with lower octane? Will this work only on US spec cars?
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      12-20-2008, 09:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
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What octane of fuel is needed after reflashing with a powerchip tune? Will it be ok to fill with lower octane? Will this work only on US spec cars?
You tell them what octane fuel you want to run on and you will get the corresponding map.

It is never OK to fill with lower octane when a car has been tuned for higher.
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      12-22-2008, 04:28 PM   #33
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I found Travis and Jeremy over at Powerchip to be very knowledgeable. As Sticky mentioned above, they compensated for the race gas mix I use. Install took less than 30 min.

It's nice to know that on something like software you have a friendly resource next door. Upgrades or any necessary future tweaks will be a breeze.

Thanks to Dale @ Evosport for setting it all up.
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      12-23-2008, 03:16 AM   #34
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      12-24-2008, 08:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09E92M34ME View Post
that's a high price imo

The more expensive the car, the more expensive the aftermarket tuners will charge, even if the results are far less than lower priced cars.
A tune on a $30k car can give 50-60 hp and is like $500
A tune for the 335i gives 80-90 hp and is $630-750
The tune for the 997TT is $2500

I agree, $1200 for 25 hp is pricey, but they know some people will pay it for it on their $60-70K car.

On a $20-30K car they wouldn't sell a single tune at that price with only that much power gain.

And on a $150K Porsche owners would laugh at the fact it only gives 25 hp but they'd be willing to pay twice that amount for 3 times the power gain.

Go figure.
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      12-24-2008, 08:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
The more expensive the car, the more expensive the aftermarket tuners will charge, even if the results are far less than lower priced cars.
A tune on a $30k car can give 50-60 hp and is like $500
A tune for the 335i gives 80-90 hp and is $630-750
The tune for the 997TT is $2500

I agree, $1200 for 25 hp is pricey, but they know some people will pay it for it on their $60-70K car.

On a $20-30K car they wouldn't sell a single tune at that price with only that much power gain.

And on a $150K Porsche owners would laugh at the fact it only gives 25 hp but they'd be willing to pay twice that amount for 3 times the power gain.

Go figure.
Does not have as much to do with the price of the car as it has to do with tuning a higher strung NA motor.

All 30k cars don't gain 50-60 hp with 500 dollar tunes, that is absurd. It does not depend on the price of the car but entirely on what kind of motor it has and what state of tune it is in from the factory.

On a 150k porsche you can gain 70 @ the wheels for <$2000. On a 120k GT3 you pay $2000 for <20 wheel. Has nothing to do with the price of the cars, everything to do with one porsche being turbocharged and one being naturally aspirated.
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      12-24-2008, 09:01 PM   #37
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I didn't say "all" $30k cars gain 50-60 hp from a tune.
Said, "on a $30k car"

And I understand that a NA car won't have the ECU tuning gains of a F/I one. Having owned over 30 cars in my 20 years of driving, many half a dozen of which were F/I, I'm well aware of that.
But the fact still remains, the higher the priced car, the more they will charge you for it.
Take the DSG tranny.
On a $25k VW (first to bring it to mass production as we know it today and what all the other manufacturers are now following suit by doing) the DSG is a $1200 option.

On the M3 it's what $3000 or so?
I'm hearing on the 335i it will be $2700

On the Porsche, they charge like $4500

They charge more (in part) for the higher priced cars because they can and know the people with more money spent will spend more.

How many DSG trannies do you think VW would sell if it was a $4500 option on their $25k GTI?

I agree with you though, I know it's in part on the motor.
But I'll bet it took more time and money to learn and tune the 335i engine than it did the M3's. A lot more to deal with and control when you are dealing with two turbos and the fueling and cooling and timing and so forth.
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      12-24-2008, 11:40 PM   #38
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driver 72 has it for you sticky....I got to read on this..
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      12-25-2008, 01:52 AM   #39
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driver 72 has it for you sticky....I got to read on this..
Has what?
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      12-25-2008, 01:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I didn't say "all" $30k cars gain 50-60 hp from a tune.
Said, "on a $30k car"

And I understand that a NA car won't have the ECU tuning gains of a F/I one. Having owned over 30 cars in my 20 years of driving, many half a dozen of which were F/I, I'm well aware of that.
But the fact still remains, the higher the priced car, the more they will charge you for it.
Take the DSG tranny.
On a $25k VW (first to bring it to mass production as we know it today and what all the other manufacturers are now following suit by doing) the DSG is a $1200 option.

On the M3 it's what $3000 or so?
I'm hearing on the 335i it will be $2700

On the Porsche, they charge like $4500

They charge more (in part) for the higher priced cars because they can and know the people with more money spent will spend more.

How many DSG trannies do you think VW would sell if it was a $4500 option on their $25k GTI?

I agree with you though, I know it's in part on the motor.
But I'll bet it took more time and money to learn and tune the 335i engine than it did the M3's. A lot more to deal with and control when you are dealing with two turbos and the fueling and cooling and timing and so forth.
VW does not yet offer a 7 speed in the GTI. It is a cheaper transmission, costs come down when you have been building it since 2003.

The gains are completely about the motor not the cost. The cost issue comes into play when the market is significantly more narrow due to the amount of cars you are developing for. You are going to be able to price tunes cheaper for cars on which you have a better chance of recouping the initial investment. It does not cost more to develop, the amount of people you can sell it to is smaller. Economies of scale.

Porsche options hardly relate to anyone else in the world. They charge you if you sneeze.

It does not take more work to tune the 335, don't know where that comes from. The ecu was cracked earlier than the M3 ecu was. Not to mention you have far more people developing tunes driving down cost. It takes far more skill to optimize an NA tune with far less room to play with than it does to up boost.

Last edited by Sticky; 12-25-2008 at 04:16 AM.
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      12-25-2008, 02:12 AM   #41
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Is this the same Powerchip as http://www.powerchipgroup.com/ ?
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      12-25-2008, 04:15 AM   #42
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Is this the same Powerchip as http://www.powerchipgroup.com/ ?
Yes, you want to find the dealer in your area though. I believe they are based in Orange County though but work with people throughout the world.
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      12-25-2008, 12:49 PM   #43
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Has what?
Meaning he is trying to get you to understand that a turbo is easier to tune then a fi engine and that it is cheaper.. But I understand your point better. I like to read into this because you learn from the thread.. He is chasing you.. Thats it..heads up
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      12-26-2008, 11:21 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
VW does not yet offer a 7 speed in the GTI. It is a cheaper transmission, costs come down when you have been building it since 2003.

The gains are completely about the motor not the cost. The cost issue comes into play when the market is significantly more narrow due to the amount of cars you are developing for. You are going to be able to price tunes cheaper for cars on which you have a better chance of recouping the initial investment. It does not cost more to develop, the amount of people you can sell it to is smaller. Economies of scale.

Porsche options hardly relate to anyone else in the world. They charge you if you sneeze.

It does not take more work to tune the 335, don't know where that comes from. The ecu was cracked earlier than the M3 ecu was. Not to mention you have far more people developing tunes driving down cost. It takes far more skill to optimize an NA tune with far less room to play with than it does to up boost.


I'm not "chasing Sticky" around. I have a close buddy who is a FBI agent. Trust me, if I wanted to "chase him" for real it wouldn't be on the internet.
I've just opened a few threads and read and have responded.
In this thread, it was Sticky who quoted me and responded to my response (which had nothing to do with him or any of his responses).

As for the above claims again Sticky please show proof where you say "it takes far more skill to optimize an NA tune"?
I'm not a tuner but know Shiv and Terry well. All I know is you get far more gains from FI and as I said I suspect it takes more to tune them because of that, but never did I say "it takes more skill" or claim that as factual, as you have done. I could ask Shiv. Though he's a millionaire, the BMW he drives is the lowly 335i so he may not know about the M3 tuning specifics.

Costs do come down with time, however, once again, your claim is wrong, since the VW DSG was priced about the same as it is now even when it first came out. And as I suspect the option price of the BMW DCT will not go down in 3-5 years but go up a bit.
And VW/Audi's development costs were most likely far more costly than BMW's, since they were the first to develop one for the mass produced car.
For other manufacturers to buy one and reverse engineer it (as BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, and others have done now) then make their own, is far cheaper to do.

Your point about Porsche charging you if you sneeze, was exactly my point....as I originally said, most often the more expensive the car, the more they charge for pretty much the same thing as cheaper cars. Was one of the reasons I didn't buy the Carrera S back in Dec. 2006 when I got my first 335i, and again in early 2007 when I got my second 335i.
Plus I love turbo charged cars and their tuning potential. But I also love NA cars, so I considered the ZO6. I passed on it though because of it's lack of practicality and the fact my insurance company wanted over twice what it costs to insure the 335i (and the fact I'd have to have my driveway entrance resloped at a cost of $5-6k since the ZO6 is to low and will scrape the front every time I drive in.

Just want to reiterate, Sticky I don't "have it out for you."
I've always loved M3's. I considered dropping my 335i at one point to get one too, but I love the turbo and the torque, and with a lease now, nobody will pay to take over the lease I pay since rates are so low now they can get one for $100 a month less new.
I visit the M3boards from time to time, but once I posted about the West Coast Dyno I was hosting and you started bashing on 335i's in there and making all these ignorant and arrogant claims, I tried to be cool with you. You clearly didn't want it and just kept bashing and thinking you are better than everybody else because you drive an M3. I hate to break it to you, but not everybody with money drives M3's
And not everybody with money buys the most expensive version of a particular car. I know because I can afford an M3 and I know and work with multi-millionaires and even some billionaires from time to time, often they drive nice cars ($80-100k which they could afford more of course) and many drive Prius' too.

I know you are young and full of testosterone having such a nice car at such a young age. But be thankful your dad has taken good care of you and you grew up with that.
Many people don't and many people have to work hard for a long time to make great money and afford $60-70k cars.
Being born into a family with good money makes nobody "special" or any better than anybody else.

Sorry for the book response.
Cheers.
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