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      12-09-2008, 01:02 AM   #45
josephr25
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I've been to Beijing and Xian in 2000; I remember seeing a lot more bikes then
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      12-09-2008, 01:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
First of all i don't want to get in a pissing match. As you kno w I live in Trier there is a rather large air base nearby called Spangdahlem. I think there are a few thousand of them in the area. For sure Germans get a lot more driver training. Sometimes I wonder if the Americans in the area have had any. They don't no any of thr right aways they seem to always try and stay in the left lane. Drive super slow around are nice windy roads. It was published in our local paper that since September there have been over 300 acidents that caused Hospitalization or totaling of a car. You might be one of the few that might have some skills; but how much do you actually no about German traffic laws. Do you no when your allowed to drive with fog lights. Did you no if you have to use your windshield wipers you have to have your lights on. Do you no when to use the rear fog light. Do you think all the autobahns have no speed limit. Did you no it's German law to have snow tires from November till April. All i can say as a whole Germans are far superior drivers considering Ive been to the states quite a few times.
I am very familiar with the Bitburg/ Spangdahlem area. It's where I stay whenever I go to the Ring. I don't see how it is irrelevent to your first post which was about the North Loop. The percentage of skilled drivers (regardless of nationality) who goes to the Nordschleife is going to be greater than what you would find out on normal roads. I offered an explanation as to why some people drive slowly on the Ring, in which case, it all boils down to experience. The rest of the stuff you said is just stating the obvious. There are bad drivers, the end. I knew the Spangdahlem AFB thing was coming. Just be glad you don't live by the Ramstein/ Kaiserslauten area.
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      12-09-2008, 02:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
You have been to every state? You have been to every road course?

You realize there are more people in the US than in Germany right? Of course as a whole the driver education there is better. You also realize it differes state to state in the US don't you?

I'm sure it would be difficult to find a driver in the US that would hand you your ass on any course.

Please, quit with this German superiority nonsense. I have been to Germany, driven through Germany, rode a bike through Germany. The majority of your roads suck. You have junky little roads through towns and you have to watch for cows crossing or a tractor riding through. The autobahn is overrated and I saw my fair share of shitty German drivers. This is coming from someone that travels to europe every year and has been to Germany maybe 20 times since I was 5 years old.

Newsflash: Bad drivers exist in every country.

Germans think too highly of themselves, I think it started in 1914. They did not learn their lesson until 1945.

That is so true....
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      12-10-2008, 07:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Yes, I said, as a whole their driver education is better. You read that, didn't you?

How about the fatalities per car on the road? I would like to see that. More people drive in California alone than in all of Germany.

Of course Germans attitudes have to do with politics. What do I know, I was a history major. Xenophobia has nothing to do with assessing historical fact. If I was Xenophobic, why would I leave the country in the first place? I don't think you understand the definition of the word.
Sure I read that. But you won't seem to reply to the fact that most if not all of the statistics point to less serious accidents per vehicle mile. That, more or less takes care of the vehicle quantity difference between the countries.

Possessing a history major does not make you correct nor does it mean you have any etiquette either. Xenophobia has multiple similar definitions. One perfectly accurate one is exhibiting a feeling of contempt for foreign peoples. What other conclusion could I make when you stoop so low to talk about wars long in the past and wars that "teach people a lesson" in a thread with a sub topic on driving differences among various countries? Get real. Should I add hawk to xenophobe as well?
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      12-11-2008, 06:23 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Sure I read that. But you won't seem to reply to the fact that most if not all of the statistics point to less serious accidents per vehicle mile. That, more or less takes care of the vehicle quantity difference between the countries.

Possessing a history major does not make you correct nor does it mean you have any etiquette either. Xenophobia has multiple similar definitions. One perfectly accurate one is exhibiting a feeling of contempt for foreign peoples. What other conclusion could I make when you stoop so low to talk about wars long in the past and wars that "teach people a lesson" in a thread with a sub topic on driving differences among various countries? Get real. Should I add hawk to xenophobe as well?
Nope, Xenophobia is pretty clear cut and in the context did not apply. Xenophobia is implied as whole, not only with one particular group. Perhaps you need to look it up?

I'm sorry, Wars long in the past? 1940's are long in the past? This is the problem with people, they have a short term memory.

You do realize people from that War are still alive today don't you? I think the people who fought, died, and were affected by it until today would be offended as to you characterizing their struggle as long in the past. I find that far more offensive than sarcastically poking fun at Germany's very real historical background which was propelled by their arrogance.

My god man, that basically set the stage for the World today and the effects are still being felt.

The "real" point was German arrogance which I highlighted with the most obvious example everyone knows. Some people got it, some like you, get easily offended thanks to our American schooling and culture doing a fine job of brain washing the masses that everyone is equal, nice, and polite. Good luck using that philosophy in Auschwitz in the early 1940's. Another very real example.

Regardless, the Germans are confined to a smaller area of driving, with less miles driven by a less diverse group of drivers. I agree their driver education is better, I don't think driving in Germany would necessarily make someone a good driver in the US or vice versa.
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      12-11-2008, 07:21 AM   #50
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sticky,

My point is that politics and war should stay out off the agenda and the simple reason that everyone has an opinion (usually polarized) and every country has there fair share of atrocities, including America.

Your comments were the equivalent to say something like 'no wants the Americans to be fighting on their side because there is less of a chance of being kill be the enemy than your allies.'

See my point, this would be offensive to all Americans and their Armed Forces.

P.S.

You can call me being too sensitive but I just prefer to talk about the products and not the people driving them and especially not anything as polarized as wars.
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      12-13-2008, 03:23 AM   #51
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^ +1 footie (on the parts I actually understood...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Nope, Xenophobia is pretty clear cut and in the context did not apply. Xenophobia is implied as whole, not only with one particular group. Perhaps you need to look it up?
My definition is accurate and in my opinion applies to your comments. You can't really talk your way around nor out of it. It is my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
I'm sorry, Wars long in the past? 1940's are long in the past? This is the problem with people, they have a short term memory.

You do realize people from that War are still alive today don't you? I think the people who fought, died, and were affected by it until today would be offended as to you characterizing their struggle as long in the past. I find that far more offensive than sarcastically poking fun at Germany's very real historical background which was propelled by their arrogance.

My god man, that basically set the stage for the World today and the effects are still being felt.

The "real" point was German arrogance which I highlighted with the most obvious example everyone knows. Some people got it, some like you, get easily offended thanks to our American schooling and culture doing a fine job of brain washing the masses that everyone is equal, nice, and polite. Good luck using that philosophy in Auschwitz in the early 1940's. Another very real example.
Wow talk about diversion and deflection. Get real. This has nothing to do with me, nor my education, nor your perceived weakness of my "American schooling" (again huge assumption on your behalf - you clearly have no idea where I was educated). Nor does it have absolutely anything to do with the historical relevance of some of the events you brought up. If you think the attitude of one German person about driving differences among different nationalities or even his own possible arrogance with regards to his driving abilities is related to pre WWII German political mores, then you could perhaps also argue 2<1.

Diversion and deflection.

The easy thing might just be to apologize for comments that many (from different countries as well) saw as inappropriate and/or offensive. But no you have to try to turn the tables and turn the attention away from yourself to the person who called you out. Some maturity is required here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Regardless, the Germans are confined to a smaller area of driving, with less miles driven by a less diverse group of drivers. I agree their driver education is better, I don't think driving in Germany would necessarily make someone a good driver in the US or vice versa.
Good finally back on topic...

1. There is no evidence that Germans in general drive less distances from their homes, schools or businesses than Americans simply because America is larger. Sure a coast to coast trip in much or Europe is not nearly as vast as a coast to coast trip in the US. But again the relevance to deaths PER VEHICLE KM? None.

2. Less miles driven - again when you count PER VEHICLE KM it is accounted for. Your history may be OK but the math is clearly escaping you.

3. I don't think driving in Germany necessarily makes one a better driver either. But German driver training (and other regulatory and cultural forces) certainly does make them safer and less likely to be involved in serious/fatal accidents. If you call safer equivalent to better, which is a very gross way I think is fair, then sorry... they are "better".
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      12-13-2008, 04:59 AM   #52
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ha ha,very good thread...i know what are you talking about....few days ago i got new bmw x6 and its like magnet to vw and gm drivers..its kinda funny...funny boys they are.
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      12-13-2008, 05:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
^ +1 footie (on the parts I actually understood...)



My definition is accurate and in my opinion applies to your comments. You can't really talk your way around nor out of it. It is my opinion.



Wow talk about diversion and deflection. Get real. This has nothing to do with me, nor my education, nor your perceived weakness of my "American schooling" (again huge assumption on your behalf - you clearly have no idea where I was educated). Nor does it have absolutely anything to do with the historical relevance of some of the events you brought up. If you think the attitude of one German person about driving differences among different nationalities or even his own possible arrogance with regards to his driving abilities is related to pre WWII German political mores, then you could perhaps also argue 2<1.

Diversion and deflection.

The easy thing might just be to apologize for comments that many (from different countries as well) saw as inappropriate and/or offensive. But no you have to try to turn the tables and turn the attention away from yourself to the person who called you out. Some maturity is required here.



Good finally back on topic...

1. There is no evidence that Germans in general drive less distances from their homes, schools or businesses than Americans simply because America is larger. Sure a coast to coast trip in much or Europe is not nearly as vast as a coast to coast trip in the US. But again the relevance to deaths PER VEHICLE KM? None.

2. Less miles driven - again when you count PER VEHICLE KM it is accounted for. Your history may be OK but the math is clearly escaping you.

3. I don't think driving in Germany necessarily makes one a better driver either. But German driver training (and other regulatory and cultural forces) certainly does make them safer and less likely to be involved in serious/fatal accidents. If you call safer equivalent to better, which is a very gross way I think is fair, then sorry... they are "better".
Your definition is not accurate, but in your opinion if definitions change to suit you, cool.

No, it does not have to do with your education. It has everything to do with supposed German superiority. You might have seen that many people saw the comments as accurate satire.

I think you should apologize for characterizing WWII as a past struggle that has no relevance today. I think that is ignorant and downright insulting. Perhaps you need some more education?

1. You should be able to figure out, simply with common sense, that Americans traverse a far more diverse set of roads in more diverse conditions with a far more diverse set of drivers. I don't think Germans have quite the same problem with illegal aliens driving as the US. I think you will see more accidents simply due to the volume of vehicles on the road at the same time vs. Germany. Tell me, what would German driver education do to make a driver safer during rush hour in LA?

2. Show me the statistics you are referring to so I may see them on my own, not that I don't value your word.

3. I think German driver training makes the average driver better but there are also far more intensive driving courses available in the US if one desires. We have some great performance and safety driving instruction, that although expensive, is tops in the world with world class drivers and instructors. The difference is we don't have the state provide it but that also allows to not be diluted for every individual.
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