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      12-04-2008, 02:58 PM   #23
kmac1980
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
When you have a driver with a tuned VW GTI and knows how to drive it. Ive seen a few VW's smoke a few M3's around the Nurburgring and the M3's that were getting passed were E-90,92 M3's. Most of the drivers of the M3's were Americans just because you own an M doesn't mean you know how to utilize a superior car. Street racing or 1/4 mile spurts are for big headed egos. If any one is a true M driver they would come out to germany and prove if they were worthy to take a few laps around the Nordshliefe (Green Hell) but if you get smoked by an inferior car you are not worthy of owning the M brand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
this "tuned" car arguement of who could get around a track faster becomes quite funny after a while....I could probably take an early 90s broken down nissan or toyota and "tune" (aka spend $30,000 on it) it to be faster around nordshliefe than my m3....
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      12-06-2008, 05:06 PM   #24
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what is with stock vs tuned comparison? is this some sort of contest to prove who has a bigger sexual organ or something? "blah blah blah my car is fast, and it costs less" "my mad modz are teh win!"
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      12-06-2008, 08:11 PM   #25
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debate as we may, even when some cars are tuned they still don't carry the driving enjoyment of other vehicles, but we all have our criteria for driving enjoyment, hence some people buying a cheaper car and modding it, oppose to purchasing a vehicle from a performance division of a manufacturer, but I prefer purchasing a fast car from the start, and then if I want to I mod, of course with the knowledge that the mods might void my warranty.
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      12-07-2008, 10:00 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
When you have a driver with a tuned VW GTI and knows how to drive it. Ive seen a few VW's smoke a few M3's around the Nurburgring and the M3's that were getting passed were E-90,92 M3's. Most of the drivers of the M3's were Americans just because you own an M doesn't mean you know how to utilize a superior car. Street racing or 1/4 mile spurts are for big headed egos. If any one is a true M driver they would come out to germany and prove if they were worthy to take a few laps around the Nordshliefe (Green Hell) but if you get smoked by an inferior car you are not worthy of owning the M brand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
I was following an AW e92 M3 up to the Tiergarten and as soon as I saw his brake lights I knew he was a newbie and blew right by him. That guy was driving an Euro spec M3 on Deutsch plates (pretty sure it started with TR also). Point being, anybody who is unfamiliar to the track will drive with caution and with that, most of the Americans who does an European Delivery are not familiar with the track. So, a VW smoking a few American spec M3s doesn't mean anything. I've done ~15 laps with the M3 and have been passed two times. A 997 GT3RS, and a M3 CSL. No VW GTI is going to keep up with me at the Ring, I can guarantee you that. Not even if Sabine was driving it. I have not been passed by a Ring Taxi in my M3 yet.
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      12-07-2008, 10:03 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
When you have a driver with a tuned VW GTI and knows how to drive it. Ive seen a few VW's smoke a few M3's around the Nurburgring and the M3's that were getting passed were E-90,92 M3's. Most of the drivers of the M3's were Americans just because you own an M doesn't mean you know how to utilize a superior car. Street racing or 1/4 mile spurts are for big headed egos. If any one is a true M driver they would come out to germany and prove if they were worthy to take a few laps around the Nordshliefe (Green Hell) but if you get smoked by an inferior car you are not worthy of owning the M brand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
This comment is absolutely idiotic!
I would dare say that 99% of the people on this forum like to drive as a HOBBY. It's our individual appreciation of the car and the driving EXPERIENCE.

Gee, I bought a brand new baseball bat, but A-Rod (professional baseball player) still hits better than me with his 10 year old bat...
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      12-07-2008, 10:32 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
When you have a driver with a tuned VW GTI and knows how to drive it. Ive seen a few VW's smoke a few M3's around the Nurburgring and the M3's that were getting passed were E-90,92 M3's. Most of the drivers of the M3's were Americans just because you own an M doesn't mean you know how to utilize a superior car. Street racing or 1/4 mile spurts are for big headed egos. If any one is a true M driver they would come out to germany and prove if they were worthy to take a few laps around the Nordshliefe (Green Hell) but if you get smoked by an inferior car you are not worthy of owning the M brand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
How dumb is that?
Are they adding medications to the water in Germany now?
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      12-07-2008, 01:55 PM   #29
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Dear Trier Germany,

Thanks for proving the point about dumb VW drivers with chips on their shoulders.

Sincerely,

The World
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      12-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #30
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Why our Most M3 drivers un intelligent and pig headed

No VW GTI is going to keep up with me at the Ring, I can guarantee you that. Not even if Sabine was driving it. I have not been passed by a Ring Taxi in my M3 yet.

I hardly doubt that I would bet my M3, she would definately destroy you. Obiously you didn't see that top gear episode where she pulled a faster lap in a van compared to some blokes jaguar. Sabine knows that track in and out. You would be seeing her tail lights for awhile then she would just dissapear!!

I wonder what they put in the water in the USA. Are you guys sure there not drugging you guys. All thinking with the little head, my guns bigger than yours whoopy due, go cry me a river. Can anyone tell me why M3 drivers in the USA are mostly retarded, is it you cant drive your car to it;s full potential. is it all the roads littered by traffic and stop lights. It must suck to have your hands tied with all thoughs traffic laws. I must say U.S. drivers rank in the top 3 of i don't know how to drive to save their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      12-08-2008, 12:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
No VW GTI is going to keep up with me at the Ring, I can guarantee you that. Not even if Sabine was driving it. I have not been passed by a Ring Taxi in my M3 yet.

I hardly doubt that I would bet my M3, she would definately destroy you. Obiously you didn't see that top gear episode where she pulled a faster lap in a van compared to some blokes jaguar. Sabine knows that track in and out. You would be seeing her tail lights for awhile then she would just dissapear!!

I wonder what they put in the water in the USA. Are you guys sure there not drugging you guys. All thinking with the little head, my guns bigger than yours whoopy due, go cry me a river. Can anyone tell me why M3 drivers in the USA are mostly retarded, is it you cant drive your car to it;s full potential. is it all the roads littered by traffic and stop lights. It must suck to have your hands tied with all thoughs traffic laws. I must say U.S. drivers rank in the top 3 of i don't know how to drive to save their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Being from Trier, you sure don't know shit about the Nurburgring, you talk more like a Brit than a German. While as a whole, German drivers are better than Americans, I've seen plenty of bad ones. I mean, with all the drivers training you guys go through, one would think it would make a bigger difference.

BTW, I doubt you own a M3 and Sabine did not go faster in the van around the Ring than Clarkson in the Jag. I'll be there in March, bring your daddy's M3 and we'll see who's going to see who's tail lights. Stupid ass.
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      12-08-2008, 01:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
No VW GTI is going to keep up with me at the Ring, I can guarantee you that. Not even if Sabine was driving it. I have not been passed by a Ring Taxi in my M3 yet.

I hardly doubt that I would bet my M3, she would definately destroy you. Obiously you didn't see that top gear episode where she pulled a faster lap in a van compared to some blokes jaguar. Sabine knows that track in and out. You would be seeing her tail lights for awhile then she would just dissapear!!

I wonder what they put in the water in the USA. Are you guys sure there not drugging you guys. All thinking with the little head, my guns bigger than yours whoopy due, go cry me a river. Can anyone tell me why M3 drivers in the USA are mostly retarded, is it you cant drive your car to it;s full potential. is it all the roads littered by traffic and stop lights. It must suck to have your hands tied with all thoughs traffic laws. I must say U.S. drivers rank in the top 3 of i don't know how to drive to save their lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you're going to offend individuals even more writing like that. Unless your a top notch driving instructor (probably not by the way you write), I'd probably retract a statement like that, and even if you are, there is always someone better, I'm sure I can find quite a bit of Americans that can out drive you.

the only thing I agree with you on is that, drivers equal, an inferior car will not pull a better lap time. But I know of at least 2 modded VW GTI's that will probably pull better lap times than quite a few stock high performance cars.
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      12-08-2008, 04:23 PM   #33
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Germans versus Amercian drivers?

First of all i don't want to get in a pissing match. As you kno w I live in Trier there is a rather large air base nearby called Spangdahlem. I think there are a few thousand of them in the area. For sure Germans get a lot more driver training. Sometimes I wonder if the Americans in the area have had any. They don't no any of thr right aways they seem to always try and stay in the left lane. Drive super slow around are nice windy roads. It was published in our local paper that since September there have been over 300 acidents that caused Hospitalization or totaling of a car. You might be one of the few that might have some skills; but how much do you actually no about German traffic laws. Do you no when your allowed to drive with fog lights. Did you no if you have to use your windshield wipers you have to have your lights on. Do you no when to use the rear fog light. Do you think all the autobahns have no speed limit. Did you no it's German law to have snow tires from November till April. All i can say as a whole Germans are far superior drivers considering Ive been to the states quite a few times.
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      12-08-2008, 05:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
First of all i don't want to get in a pissing match. As you kno w I live in Trier there is a rather large air base nearby called Spangdahlem. I think there are a few thousand of them in the area. For sure Germans get a lot more driver training. Sometimes I wonder if the Americans in the area have had any. They don't no any of thr right aways they seem to always try and stay in the left lane. Drive super slow around are nice windy roads. It was published in our local paper that since September there have been over 300 acidents that caused Hospitalization or totaling of a car. You might be one of the few that might have some skills; but how much do you actually no about German traffic laws. Do you no when your allowed to drive with fog lights. Did you no if you have to use your windshield wipers you have to have your lights on. Do you no when to use the rear fog light. Do you think all the autobahns have no speed limit. Did you no it's German law to have snow tires from November till April. All i can say as a whole Germans are far superior drivers considering Ive been to the states quite a few times.
Totally agree with you on this.
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      12-08-2008, 05:41 PM   #35
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First of all i don't want to get in a pissing match. As you kno w I live in Trier there is a rather large air base nearby called Spangdahlem. I think there are a few thousand of them in the area. For sure Germans get a lot more driver training. Sometimes I wonder if the Americans in the area have had any. They don't no any of thr right aways they seem to always try and stay in the left lane. Drive super slow around are nice windy roads. It was published in our local paper that since September there have been over 300 acidents that caused Hospitalization or totaling of a car. You might be one of the few that might have some skills; but how much do you actually no about German traffic laws. Do you no when your allowed to drive with fog lights. Did you no if you have to use your windshield wipers you have to have your lights on. Do you no when to use the rear fog light. Do you think all the autobahns have no speed limit. Did you no it's German law to have snow tires from November till April. All i can say as a whole Germans are far superior drivers considering Ive been to the states quite a few times.
You have been to every state? You have been to every road course?

You realize there are more people in the US than in Germany right? Of course as a whole the driver education there is better. You also realize it differes state to state in the US don't you?

I'm sure it would be difficult to find a driver in the US that would hand you your ass on any course.

Please, quit with this German superiority nonsense. I have been to Germany, driven through Germany, rode a bike through Germany. The majority of your roads suck. You have junky little roads through towns and you have to watch for cows crossing or a tractor riding through. The autobahn is overrated and I saw my fair share of shitty German drivers. This is coming from someone that travels to europe every year and has been to Germany maybe 20 times since I was 5 years old.

Newsflash: Bad drivers exist in every country.

Germans think too highly of themselves, I think it started in 1914. They did not learn their lesson until 1945.
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      12-08-2008, 06:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
No VW GTI is going to keep up with me at the Ring, I can guarantee you that. Not even if Sabine was driving it. I have not been passed by a Ring Taxi in my M3 yet.
If your best ring time is less than 8:50 then I think you are safe from VW GTIs, even ones driven by Sabine. But if she was in the M3 ring taxi and wanted by, I am pretty sure she would be capable, I remembered someone telling me they don't go below 8:40 in the M3 ring taxi and it's usually closer to the 9:00 mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticky
Germans think too highly of themselves, I think it started in 1914. They did not learn their lesson until 1945
Sticky, your last comment could get you banned. There is line we do not cross, one is disability (calling names because of this) and another is what you just mentioned.

Pray that the mods are in a good mood.
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      12-08-2008, 07:53 PM   #37
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I have obtained a photo of Trier Germany. He's actually Austrian.

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      12-08-2008, 08:33 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
First of all i don't want to get in a pissing match. As you kno w I live in Trier there is a rather large air base nearby called Spangdahlem. I think there are a few thousand of them in the area. For sure Germans get a lot more driver training. Sometimes I wonder if the Americans in the area have had any. They don't no any of thr right aways they seem to always try and stay in the left lane. Drive super slow around are nice windy roads. It was published in our local paper that since September there have been over 300 acidents that caused Hospitalization or totaling of a car. You might be one of the few that might have some skills; but how much do you actually no about German traffic laws. Do you no when your allowed to drive with fog lights. Did you no if you have to use your windshield wipers you have to have your lights on. Do you no when to use the rear fog light. Do you think all the autobahns have no speed limit. Did you no it's German law to have snow tires from November till April. All i can say as a whole Germans are far superior drivers considering Ive been to the states quite a few times.
A discussion is not a pissing match. I agree with you the requirements for getting a drivers license in Germany is much harder than in the U.S., and I wish they implemented more stringent testing in the U.S., yes there is a lot of bone heads here, but I'm sure Europe has their share of careless drivers also, I'm sure your accidents per year or month is not 0, and I doubt Americans are the sole ones to blame in those accidents.

In reference ot the traffic laws, yes, knowing them makes you a driver less subject to a civil traffic offense. But anyone can learn traffic laws.

Nationality has nothing to do with how well you drive on a track, road course, 1/4 mile, or street. So advising individuals they can't drive unless they are German is ridiculous. I encountered a German individual at Moroso a year ago and while he was a good driver, he was not the best one on the track.



running the 1/4 mile is also not as easy as you might think. It's hard to duplicate magazine times and beat them, you must put the power down, launch good and get your 60' times down pat and shift well.

your statements don't seem objective but rather biased.
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      12-08-2008, 09:35 PM   #39
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You have been to every state? You have been to every road course?

You realize there are more people in the US than in Germany right? Of course as a whole the driver education there is better. You also realize it differes state to state in the US don't you?

I'm sure it would be difficult to find a driver in the US that would hand you your ass on any course.

Please, quit with this German superiority nonsense. I have been to Germany, driven through Germany, rode a bike through Germany. The majority of your roads suck. You have junky little roads through towns and you have to watch for cows crossing or a tractor riding through. The autobahn is overrated and I saw my fair share of shitty German drivers. This is coming from someone that travels to europe every year and has been to Germany maybe 20 times since I was 5 years old.

Newsflash: Bad drivers exist in every country.

Germans think too highly of themselves, I think it started in 1914. They did not learn their lesson until 1945.
You don't disagree that Germans have much more and much better driver training, right?

You state you have seen your fair share of bad German drivers, but wouldn't you agree that Germans are in general better drivers than here in the US? If you choose death rates as a metric (which roughly corresponds to serious accident rate) I think you must.

I certainly do: The statistics for fatalities per 100,000 persons, deaths per million vehicle km (or mi), freeway vs. autobahn deaths per vehicle km, etc. all show much lower results in Germany than in the US. Of course all of these metrics account for the fact that there are more folks here in the US.

That last one was pretty harsh. I'd even go so far as to say xenophobic. Do you really think German attitudes about driving and safety have anything to do with politics?
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      12-08-2008, 10:55 PM   #40
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Sticky, your last comment could get you banned. There is line we do not cross, one is disability (calling names because of this) and another is what you just mentioned.

Pray that the mods are in a good mood.
Huh? You don't even make any sense. You are way too sensitive. Fact is, Germans do think way too highly of themselves and that philosophy got them into a bit of trouble in the past. Let's just pretend like history did not happen, right? The mods should ban you.
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      12-08-2008, 10:58 PM   #41
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You don't disagree that Germans have much more and much better driver training, right?

You state you have seen your fair share of bad German drivers, but wouldn't you agree that Germans are in general better drivers than here in the US? If you choose death rates as a metric (which roughly corresponds to serious accident rate) I think you must.

I certainly do: The statistics for fatalities per 100,000 persons, deaths per million vehicle km (or mi), freeway vs. autobahn deaths per vehicle km, etc. all show much lower results in Germany than in the US. Of course all of these metrics account for the fact that there are more folks here in the US.

That last one was pretty harsh. I'd even go so far as to say xenophobic. Do you really think German attitudes about driving and safety have anything to do with politics?
Yes, I said, as a whole their driver education is better. You read that, didn't you?

How about the fatalities per car on the road? I would like to see that. More people drive in California alone than in all of Germany.

Of course Germans attitudes have to do with politics. What do I know, I was a history major. Xenophobia has nothing to do with assessing historical fact. If I was Xenophobic, why would I leave the country in the first place? I don't think you understand the definition of the word.
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      12-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #42
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Forget the VW part... there are all makes with stupid f*cks trying to race. my350Z, MBWorld, E90post... tools are tools, just badged differently
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      12-08-2008, 11:26 PM   #43
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Forget the VW part... there are all makes with stupid f*cks trying to race. my350Z, MBWorld, E90post... tools are tools, just badged differently
Exactly, tools, good drivers, bad drivers, they exist everywhere in every make in every country.
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      12-09-2008, 12:08 AM   #44
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hahahaha, this german driver is superior than american driver debate is nonsense

has anyone here been to a city in China? you will need mad skill to drive in Shanghai.
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