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      11-28-2008, 07:06 AM   #111
southlight
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Davo2003

It's very unlikely that the current M3 will get that TT V8 like you've been suggesting. The strict CO2 regulation starts in 2012 with the 120g rule being applicated to every new car from 2015 on. As you see, plenty of time and just the right time frame for the next generation M3.


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      11-28-2008, 08:08 AM   #112
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I agree that the likelihood of a t/turbo v8 is slim at best, but why assume that it has to be a inline 6 with twin turbos. Is it not possible for BMW to develop an entirely new engine solely for the next M3, maybe the current vee engine minus a cylinder off each bank. This way the weight should be even less than the inline equivalent plus the length of the engine is almost halved and there is even less possibility of the engine overhanging the front axle and a better chance of adopting the turbo in between the cylinder banks.

South I would guess you already know the engine choice for the next M3 and it's an inline as you said, but to me it is a shame to not use some of the basic designs used from the current M3/5/6.
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      11-28-2008, 08:22 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I agree that the likelihood of a t/turbo v8 is slim at best, but why assume that it has to be a inline 6 with twin turbos. Is it not possible for BMW to develop an entirely new engine solely for the next M3, maybe the current vee engine minus a cylinder off each bank. This way the weight should be even less than the inline equivalent plus the length of the engine is almost halved and there is even less possibility of the engine overhanging the front axle and a better chance of adopting the turbo in between the cylinder banks.

South I would guess you already know the engine choice for the next M3 and it's an inline as you said, but to me it is a shame to not use some of the basic designs used from the current M3/5/6.
I'd also like to see an V6 engine based on the S65, but I'm afraid that would mean one too many shocks for the M lovers. It's just a guess but I think BMW has to stick to the inline layout for 6 cylinder engines. Marketing division might not allow anything else.


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      11-28-2008, 08:25 AM   #114
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      11-28-2008, 10:55 AM   #115
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Efficiency dynamics

As I see the current direction in BMW philosophy, it is melding the old-style M traditions with the emerging corporate image of high-tech euro green reality. I am content with my decision to get a 335 rather than the M3. Both are overweight; I am passing time with an affordable utilitarian fun car that can fit my 3 large sons, waiting for the day that the tremendous recent advances in materials science are realized. The Z2 M, with a 270hp turbo 4cyl, weighing around 1,000 kilos dry, will not be your father's BMW M in a lot of ways, but in the most important ones -- fun to drive, freude am fahren -- I think it will be. I don't think the next M3 will be quite as dramatic, it seems to have been sucked into a dual-purpose executive daily driver niche.
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      11-28-2008, 12:47 PM   #116
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Quote:
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The only problem with those engines was that they were built to last 1 or 2 races only, which allowed the rpms to be so high. With a production vehicle there is no way it can translate without BMW taking serious losses on warranty claims. You also have to remember that most OEM FI setup's lose thier efficiency at higher rpms, so there would be no point to have a higher reving engine.
actually the skyline r34 gtr had twin turbo with redline at 8 or 9k rpm as I saw in some jap video and they are freaking realiable. So high rev + turbo must be doable.
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      11-28-2008, 12:48 PM   #117
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how about an 2.2l i4 with 9k redline + turbo for the new gen m3 that produce 480hp? haha

for example, the s2000 just a 2.2l i4 that produce 240hp. So this must be doable. This will in turn reduce weight significantly too because the s2000 i4 weight next to nothing.

I this would make more sense for m car than to fit a low reving engine with turbo. Then it would be the same as the 335i.
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      11-28-2008, 02:41 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Well, it's still unlikely that the M3 will get a Turbo V8. Inline 6 is the obvious choice.


Best regards, south
I agree South, there is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING in the article that states the next M3 will be turbo'd. I think member Jaiman may have wanted to just post a sensational headline to get members to read his thread.

That being said I do believe the next M3 will more than likely have some kind of different change under the hood, but what that will be remains to be seen......
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      11-28-2008, 03:21 PM   #119
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Since when does the M-Division care about fuel economy?

BMW keeps on slipping up - for one thing, why is there an X6M?

Better yet, why is there an X6 and no M3 CSL?

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      11-28-2008, 03:56 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennbahnmeister View Post
The only problem with those engines was that they were built to last 1 or 2 races only, which allowed the rpms to be so high. With a production vehicle there is no way it can translate without BMW taking serious losses on warranty claims. You also have to remember that most OEM FI setup's lose thier efficiency at higher rpms, so there would be no point to have a higher reving engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimp Star View Post
Since when does the M-Division care about fuel economy?

BMW keeps on slipping up - for one thing, why is there an X6M?

Better yet, why is there an X6 and no M3 CSL?

yeah, don't understand what they were thinking either.
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      11-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #121
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ohhhhh my, a v8 twin turbo M! I'm in
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      11-28-2008, 05:35 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'd also like to see an V6 engine based on the S65, but I'm afraid that would mean one too many shocks for the M lovers. It's just a guess but I think BMW has to stick to the inline layout for 6 cylinder engines. Marketing division might not allow anything else.


Best regards, south

Yeah, f'ing marketing guys put their 2 cents in far too often for my liking.

I agree with what someone else said earlier that this inline 6 engine choice would be too close to the main stream 335i for my liking. Even if they went for a dual charger system (turbo + supercharger) would make it different enough to separate it from the rest and give it that instant punch.

Maybe the engine choice isn't that important as long as the end result meets everyones expectations.
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      11-28-2008, 05:53 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Maybe the engine choice isn't that important as long as the end result meets everyones expectations.
+1 Yep, that's my take on it.
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      11-28-2008, 05:53 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Yeah, f'ing marketing guys put their 2 cents in far too often for my liking.

I agree with what someone else said earlier that this inline 6 engine choice would be too close to the main stream 335i for my liking. Even if they went for a dual charger system (turbo + supercharger) would make it different enough to separate it from the rest and give it that instant punch.

Maybe the engine choice isn't that important as long as the end result meets everyones expectations.
What does marketing have to do with the inline 6? BMW chooses it for a reason. If for whatever reason we do get a turbo 6 cylinder I would prefer an inline 6.

Supercharger + turbo is stupid, no reason to do things just to be different for the sake of being different. I prefer efficiency.
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      11-28-2008, 06:42 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLCOMM View Post
FI = more efficient
FI = more power and torque
FI = cheaper
FI = lighter

Why all the hate?
Because turbo lag sucks is you are trying to balance the car in corners with the throttle.
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      11-28-2008, 06:52 PM   #126
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Quote:
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Because turbo lag sucks is you are trying to balance the car in corners with the throttle.
Depends on the type of turbo's that bmw is talking about. The turbos on the 335 have very minimal turbo lag if any at all.
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      11-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #127
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I'm sure the next M3 will be an exciting car but I don't agree with changing powertrain philosophies from what we have now. I sold a 'torquey' supercharged car to buy my '09 M3 and haven't looked back. Don't miss it at all either. Here's hoping the next-gen GT3 can be had in the US without a moonroof.
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      11-28-2008, 06:58 PM   #128
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Quote:
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Depends on the type of turbo's that bmw is talking about. The turbos on the 335 have very minimal turbo lag if any at all.
You driven one under competive conditions? I have....

There is still lag.
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      11-28-2008, 07:09 PM   #129
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Smoke 'em while you got 'em!
+2 I've been expecting this trend and makes one think that tucking away a hi-po V8 would be cool.

Also, I'm not saying I don't embrace the notion of smart HP increases using forced induction.
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      11-28-2008, 07:30 PM   #130
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Quote:
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You driven one under competive conditions? I have....

There is still lag.
What kind of vehicle was it? Are you we comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges
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      11-28-2008, 07:35 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Supercharger + turbo is stupid, no reason to do things just to be different for the sake of being different. I prefer efficiency.
Well Lancia found great success with such a setup. But then maybe you know more than the experts.

P.S.
The latest superchargers are very efficient and such a combination with a turbo would not only reduce lag to a level that it wouldn't be felt at all but allow a smaller/lighter engine to be used, thus improving handling even more.
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      11-28-2008, 07:37 PM   #132
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What kind of vehicle was it? Are you we comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges
Well those with the 29.2 + Progmans DO have more lag than the older cars....the software detune was initiated in response to wastegate rattle complaints by customers.
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