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      11-03-2008, 07:29 PM   #1
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Drove the C63 AMG again.....Then went to drive the ///M3 again

Damn the C63 is a monster just waiting to be let out. That thing will kill you if you're not careful. I mean it gives you this rush that the M3 just didn't give me. I felt a lot more confident pushing the limits with the M3 though(Drove on a empty stretch of road.) The C63 is an all out maniac. The suspension on the M3 is terrific. Could be a little harsh. The M3 though, could actually be used as a DD and a track car. The car feels confident in every turn, and when you are pushing the limits. The car is amazing. Love the exhaust note on the C63. The M3 needs a bit more torque(just my opinion) But again as with all Mercedes Benz's the steering feel wasn't up to par with the M3. The M3 felt like it was there and alive. While the Mercedes felt just a bit numbed down. Mercedes, you are almost there. You have done a great job with this C63. I mean it's an all out crazy mad man's car. The M3 though, would be the one I would choose. The C63 was great, but when I can't feel what's truly going on at the front tires, especially if I'm going to track the car, then we have a problem. Mercedes, the C63 AMG is a job well done. BMW, you could learn how to make a proper exhaust note from Mercedes. God that C63 AMG sounds good! And the engine just makes me drool.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      11-03-2008, 07:50 PM   #2
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A friend of mine has a C63 and I have an E92 M3. We both took turns driving each others cars for a bit. After the trade, we both preferred the M3. He owned a 'Vette before the C63 and really liked the sportiness of the M3, I bought the M3 as a practical sports car, semi daily driver.
If I was buying a 4 door car to take passengers on a regular basis, I'd be hard pressed not to go with the C63. It's a great passenger car for high speed jaunts. I haven't driven the 4 door M3 though.
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      11-03-2008, 07:52 PM   #3
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Loves everything about the C63, but hates the MB transmission. The 7G is not comparable to the 6AT, let alone the M-DCT.......

The old 5-sp in the 55s are hideously slow to shift...... and if you stomp the gas, it'd get confused what gear to get it. The new 7G is like they just added 2 OD gear to the 5-sp and it still shifts slow and gets confused..... Useless piece of junk.
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      11-03-2008, 08:55 PM   #4
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I drove a Merc C220 CDI (diesel) in Germany. 1600km from Rostock to Zürich, so I got it know it pretty well. I have to say, I really liked it. The 6MT feels very much like my 330i's 6MT. It had gobs of torque, being a diesel. The noise it made was just outstanding. The low diesel rumble mixed in with the turbo whine. The ride was incredibly smooth and you always felt like you had perfect control, even cruising at 230 km/h for hours.

The interior was very nice. I loved the dash on it.



Though we don't have a lot to complain about in BMW land...


I know comparing a 330 and C220 CDI to an M3 and C63 AMG is a bit off...

In the end I'd probably go for the BMW purely for the image of it. Merc is typically associated with an older crowd and with automatics (yuck). It's a shame since the W204 C class is beautiful and a dream to drive, so long as you stay away from the automatic.
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      11-03-2008, 10:45 PM   #5
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for me, i'd take c63 over m3.
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      11-03-2008, 11:07 PM   #6
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I bought a MY09 E350 with the AMG sports pkg and other goodies. I needed a daily driver that's Euro but comfy. I'm actually really impressed with its driving characteristics. For a safe and heavy car, it's pretty damn nimble. Great interior and with all those fun and goofy German style conveniences.

But it does make me feel like an old fart cruising down the freeway. A lazy butt car for sure. Although it's got some good punchy torque and the 7 speed auto is as quiet as a mouse. Even has paddle shifters if I want to get silly.

I'd recommend a Benz as an effortless cruise car, and yet doesn't make you nod off out of boredom.

I still have my 993 so I do get to be a Jeykll and Hyde depending on my mood.

But an AMG E63 or C63 would be even more schizoid....
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      11-04-2008, 01:42 AM   #7
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as you said, both of them are BEASTS, m3 triampths in handling and suspension and c63 in torque, engine sound and exhaust note.
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      11-04-2008, 02:14 AM   #8
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yeah! i drove both, the BMW just makes you feel you are Driving on the road.....The Steering is incredible with BMW but shit for BMW
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      11-04-2008, 06:07 AM   #9
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yeah! i drove both, the BMW just makes you feel you are Driving on the road.....The Steering is incredible with BMW but shit for BMW
Yah RLY?
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      11-04-2008, 07:55 AM   #10
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The exhaust note is ten times better on the C63. It's almost a large enough reason to buy it over the M3. The handling is close enough to the point that it doesn't matter, and the braking is fine. Really, the M3 could've used a little more displacement. I don't understand why they had to keep things so small. Sure, it revs to 8,400rpm, but the C63 can still go to 7,200rpm, which is nothing to laugh at.

Downshift in a C63 AMG and you'll be hooked on the noise like crack.
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      11-04-2008, 08:04 AM   #11
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But come on, 6300cc engine in a compact sedan...its just outrageous. And this is only because they wanted to cut costs and not develop a smaller engine for a smaller car. As a result, they had to over-stiffen the suspension to maintain the handling. Yes, the feeling is great, but I think that the same feeling could be achieved with a little more advanced engineering. I will say that the next M3 will have forced induction, and then you will finally have it all...power, torque, handling and also comfort.
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      11-04-2008, 08:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
But come on, 6300cc engine in a compact sedan...its just outrageous. And this is only because they wanted to cut costs and not develop a smaller engine for a smaller car. As a result, they had to over-stiffen the suspension to maintain the handling. Yes, the feeling is great, but I think that the same feeling could be achieved with a little more advanced engineering. I will say that the next M3 will have forced induction, and then you will finally have it all...power, torque, handling and also comfort.
Eh, after driving both of em I just came out thinking 6.2 > 4.0.
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      11-04-2008, 10:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Yah RLY?
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      11-04-2008, 10:33 AM   #14
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my question is "why cant BMW make a loud and sick exhaust note"?
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      11-04-2008, 10:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
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my question is "why cant BMW make a loud and sick exhaust note"?
Because that would be out of character. BMW M doesn't make large displacement engines, they make efficient high RPM engines.

The exhaust note is one of the easiest things to change about a car by the way. Just pick up any one of the multitude of after market exhausts that are available. This is a non-issue. The M3 still sounds great stock, and only better with enhancements. Plus, with the way they did it the exhaust note is customizable and not carbon copies for every M3 on the road.

If it was the other way around, and the M3 sounded exactly like the C63 I'm sure there would be plenty of poeple complaining or posting dislikes. Remember its usually only the poeple with a issue or problem that post about something. If poeple are happy and have no issue, then they never bring it up for a discussion.
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      11-04-2008, 11:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
The exhaust note is ten times better on the C63. It's almost a large enough reason to buy it over the M3. The handling is close enough to the point that it doesn't matter, and the braking is fine.
The M3 you drove must have been broken if you think it handled anything like the C63.
My friend who has a brand new one was ready to trade cars with me after a short stint behind the wheel of my M3.
Not only is the handling vastly better in the M3, it feels smaller and sportier too.
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      11-04-2008, 01:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advskier View Post
The M3 you drove must have been broken if you think it handled anything like the C63.
My friend who has a brand new one was ready to trade cars with me after a short stint behind the wheel of my M3.
Not only is the handling vastly better in the M3, it feels smaller and sportier too.


drove my friends c63...very nice...torque monster....but nothing like the m3!!

will take the m3 anyday!!!
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      11-04-2008, 01:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
But come on, 6300cc engine in a compact sedan...its just outrageous. And this is only because they wanted to cut costs and not develop a smaller engine for a smaller car. As a result, they had to over-stiffen the suspension to maintain the handling. Yes, the feeling is great, but I think that the same feeling could be achieved with a little more advanced engineering. I will say that the next M3 will have forced induction, and then you will finally have it all...power, torque, handling and also comfort.
I agree with you on that....I think after BMW M has seen what Audi and Merc have put out in their RS5, RS6 and C63 respectively, they might move away from NA engines to FI, in which case the next generation M3, and M cars will be insane.

Will be interesting to see what the new M5 has....if it wants to be a viable competitor to the RS6.
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      11-04-2008, 01:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
But come on, 6300cc engine in a compact sedan...its just outrageous. And this is only because they wanted to cut costs and not develop a smaller engine for a smaller car. As a result, they had to over-stiffen the suspension to maintain the handling. Yes, the feeling is great, but I think that the same feeling could be achieved with a little more advanced engineering. I will say that the next M3 will have forced induction, and then you will finally have it all...power, torque, handling and also comfort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC///M3 View Post
I agree with you on that....I think after BMW M has seen what Audi and Merc have put out in their RS5, RS6 and C63 respectively, they might move away from NA engines to FI, in which case the next generation M3, and M cars will be insane.

Will be interesting to see what the new M5 has....if it wants to be a viable competitor to the RS6.
Why are so many people looking forward to a F/I M3? Sure, it's easy enough to chip for big performance gains, but haven't you been reading about all of the issues with the 335 (e.g., lag, BMW de-tuning with SW updates, overheating causing the car to go into limp mode, warranty refusals, etc.)?

I personally wouldn't give up the smooth, high-revving nature of the M3's current engine for a peaky, and laggy F/I powerplant that makes throttle modulation difficult.
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      11-04-2008, 01:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
Why are so many people looking forward to a F/I M3? Sure, it's easy enough to chip for big performance gains, but haven't you been reading about all of the issues with the 335 (e.g., lag, BMW de-tuning with SW updates, overheating causing the car to go into limp mode, warranty refusals, etc.)?

I personally wouldn't give up the smooth, high-revving nature of the M3's current engine for a peaky, and laggy F/I powerplant that makes throttle modulation difficult.
No I am not looking forward to it, I like NA as well. I was just speculating on whether or not they will go the FI route. Sorry if my post insinuated that I am a fan of FI, I would much rather have an NA engine.
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      11-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #21
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I've had a c-class Merc as my daily driver for 5 years. It's a great car, only a small engine (1.8 supercharged) so totally NOT comparable with either a C63 or an M3 but the thing is they grow on you. It goes OK for the engine size but handles pretty well as well, and for country / interstate work it's fabulous.

So the thing is don't necessarily expect a Merc to blow you away. I know the C63 goes hard and sounds great (yes, I have driven one) but for me that's not the essence of what a Merc is. If I wasn't buying a sports car I'd have another C-class in a flash. But I'm not buying a C63....

Last edited by aggie57; 11-04-2008 at 06:40 PM.
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      11-04-2008, 05:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
I personally wouldn't give up the smooth, high-revving nature of the M3's current engine for a peaky, and laggy F/I powerplant that makes throttle modulation difficult.
Some 335i's are like you describe (mine, for instance ).

But the 135i seems to be less laggy, has much better throttle response and it's easy to modulate. I would argue, easier than the M3 in Sport mode.

Blame all these mishaps to a steep first generation twin turbo learning curve. 1 or 2 years from now these engines will be tuned to perfection for their intended usage and market.

I absolutely loved the M3, adored its engine and suspension. But the truth is that a 135i can be easily and inexpensively modified to be at least as thrilling and fast. I'm still debating between the two, I guess I'll flip a coin come spring.



And back on track, I will only consider AMG products when they offer a manual tranny and make their cars feel small & nimble. The M3 shrinks around you and allows you to exploit its full potential, even on bad roads or driving conditions. My drive in the rain on country roads was absolutely eye opening.
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