BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-28-2008, 02:03 PM   #1
jaeS4
Private
 
Drives: s4
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: nyc

Posts: 72
iTrader: (0)

Corvette ZR-1 knocks four seconds off 'Ring time, now at 7:22!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoblog
Back at the Nürburgring, the hot Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 has just ripped four seconds off its claimed 7:26 lap. The new time, with Jan Magnussen at the wheel, is a claimed 7:22.4 for the full 12.93-mile loop. While the number is pretty bloody fast, it is still .3 seconds off the time earned by the Dodge Viper ACR (ouch, those three tenths really have to hurt!). We take these lap times with a grain of salt, as we've yet to see everyone on the 73-turn course under the same conditions, and with officially certified timing equipment. Again, so you don't have to Google the competition's best-claimed Ring times yourself, here they are: Porsche GT2 - 7:32, Nissan GT-R - 7:29, Corvette ZR1 - 7:22.4 and the Dodge Viper ACR - 7:22.1. Thanks for the tip, Xeyad!
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/28/c...off-ring-time/
jaeS4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-28-2008, 04:10 PM   #2
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I wonder have they cheated, using a special ZR1 with more power than stock like swamp believes Nissan have.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-28-2008, 04:19 PM   #3
Sedan_Clan
Banned
 
Drives: '14 335i(prev.IB,AW M3's & X5)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On 2 wheels clipping an apex!

Posts: 10,923
iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I wonder have they cheated, using a special ZR1 with more power than stock like swamp believes Nissan have.
Awww...come on footie. Corvette prowess is rarely questioned/refuted, and the circumstances are a bit different than the issue with the GTR.

Nice time by the ZR1 though.
Sedan_Clan is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
      10-28-2008, 08:29 PM   #4
watrob
Major
 
watrob's Avatar
 
Drives: MY2013 X5M 50d - White
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brisbane - Australia

Posts: 1,488
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Awww...come on footie. Corvette prowess is rarely questioned/refuted, and the circumstances are a bit different than the issue with the GTR.

Nice time by the ZR1 though.
Oh no, did you have to say that word "Cheat", here we go again, s**t I don't want to go though 14 pages of this again.
__________________

X5 M50d White, 20"rims, Adaptive Drive, HUD, Xenon Adapt Lights, Rear/Side Camera, Sunroof, Auto Tailgate, Comfort Access, Active Perforated Ventilated Comfort Seats, M Paddle Shift, Active Crus, Stop/Go, Proff Nav + TV, DAB, 16 Spk Ind HiFi, USB, Internet, Apps, 4 Zone Air, Towbar 20% Tint, 5mm Castor Bushes, Yellow Calipers, Ceramic Pads
watrob is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      10-28-2008, 08:40 PM   #5
Sedan_Clan
Banned
 
Drives: '14 335i(prev.IB,AW M3's & X5)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On 2 wheels clipping an apex!

Posts: 10,923
iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
Oh no, did you have to say that word "Cheat", here we go again, s**t I don't want to go though 14 pages of this again.
I did not utter nor type those words (..but footie, on the other hand....). Inferred? Depends on how you view my statement. I'm just stating that the circumstances are different in this situation.
Sedan_Clan is offline   Brazil
0
Reply With Quote
      10-28-2008, 08:47 PM   #6
bmstyle71
Captain
 
bmstyle71's Avatar
 
Drives: jet black e92 m3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: tampa florida

Posts: 637
iTrader: (0)

nice car but for 100k+ unless you are looking for pure performance only, it's not a good deal. I'd rather have an m5.
bmstyle71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-29-2008, 12:02 AM   #7
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I wonder have they cheated, using a special ZR1 with more power than stock like swamp believes Nissan have.
This is humorous on multiple levels. First, you imply with this statement that you don't think the 7:29 GT-R was under rated yet we all know you firmly believe it is in the neighborhood of 10% under rated. Hardly trivial for for car with almost 500 hp. Second, rather than sarcasm you should state your opinion as to whether or not this ZR1 is in any way a ringer. Of course you don't really have to courage to commit and wish to defer to someone whom you don't buy a word they offer on such topics. Very funny.

Let me commit. Of course I am not going to be 100%. There is not enough evidence and I am only going to use one small bit of the evidence available. I'll word it a bit like Greenspan (well much firmer than that, but you get the point).

A very preliminary look at the ZR1 based solely on power to weight regression reveals an over performer on the N'Ring. However, statistically the level at which it is an over performer, say compared to the GT-R, is truly worlds apart. Way, way less of an over performer than the that GT-R. Also using the Z06 as a gage for a loosely similar car, it is much more of an over performer for its specs. All that being said the 7:22 time itself is not strong evidence for specification for that car to be different than factory/production specifications.

Taking it one step further a time for the ZR-1 about 7:10 or better would lead me down the road to begin some serious questioning along the lines of my GT-R questioning.

We are waiting for your thoughts foot.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-29-2008, 06:53 AM   #8
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Amazing.

How one small sentence can produce a reply four paragraphs long (excluding the little short one at the end ).
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-29-2008, 04:57 PM   #9
spearfisher
Lieutenant
 
spearfisher's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 ZO6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

wow, that's all I got to say, imagine if they had a DSG and a good track mode.
spearfisher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-29-2008, 09:37 PM   #10
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Amazing.

How one small sentence can produce a reply four paragraphs long (excluding the little short one at the end ).
Not as amazing as your unwillingness to commit any opinion at all. I'd rather be wrong and have a decent reason for my opinion than to not have one at all.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 02:58 AM   #11
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I hope GM release the video to this lap so we can compare the GTR to it and see where the Vette is making up time. Like it's hardly going to be going around the corners much quicker so it's logical to think the time is mostly being made up on the straights.

Would you concur swamp or would that put into question your original thread else where?
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 03:54 AM   #12
bmstyle71
Captain
 
bmstyle71's Avatar
 
Drives: jet black e92 m3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: tampa florida

Posts: 637
iTrader: (0)

GEEEE swamp are you a GM spokesperson? lol I'm guessing you want a vette?
bmstyle71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 02:19 PM   #13
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmstyle71 View Post
GEEEE swamp are you a GM spokesperson? lol I'm guessing you want a vette?
I'll take that as a compliment. Sometimes I get the BMW fan boy label as well. So this is a nice counter balance to that accusation. When you are a fan boy for all good cars you are much more objective.

On the serious side the ZR1 is an amazing car, lots of tech and unreal power to weight. I would love to drive one but certainly would not want to own one. I am not a fan of 2 seats, its looks nor its likely ability as a good daily driver.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 02:24 PM   #14
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I hope GM release the video to this lap so we can compare the GTR to it and see where the Vette is making up time. Like it's hardly going to be going around the corners much quicker so it's logical to think the time is mostly being made up on the straights.

Would you concur swamp or would that put into question your original thread else where?
The GM engineer driving the ZR1 on the 7:26 lap was obviously not a factory ace. You can even see him removing his hand from the wheel and shaking it in the air in a motion of self criticism after a screw up. There is room beyond 7:26 and 7:22 based on driver and based on regression. I'm not sure why you think there is no room for gains in the corners, it does pull a better skidpad figure than the GT-R.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 02:52 PM   #15
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The GM engineer driving the ZR1 on the 7:26 lap was obviously not a factory ace. You can even see him removing his hand from the wheel and shaking it in the air in a motion of self criticism after a screw up. There is room beyond 7:26 and 7:22 based on driver and based on regression. I'm not sure why you think there is no room for gains in the corners, it does pull a better skidpad figure than the GT-R.
I did see one point where he clearly was unhappy with his corner when the rear slid a little but on the whole I thought it was a very tidy lap in a very difficult car to control on such a bumpy track.

Find me a single awd car which pulls a good figure on a skidpad. Anyway lateral Gs doesn't equal speed in the corner, just thought I would share that with you. I use to drive things that pull more than 3Gs in the corners.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2008, 05:32 PM   #16
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I did see one point where he clearly was unhappy with his corner when the rear slid a little but on the whole I thought it was a very tidy lap in a very difficult car to control on such a bumpy track.

Find me a single awd car which pulls a good figure on a skidpad. Anyway lateral Gs doesn't equal speed in the corner, just thought I would share that with you. I use to drive things that pull more than 3Gs in the corners.
Certainly agree that skidpad g is not the same as track g. But they do correlate well until you get into the heavy aero/downforce modifications. The ZR1 is certainly no slouch in the cornering department.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2008, 03:11 AM   #17
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Certainly agree that skidpad g is not the same as track g. But they do correlate well until you get into the heavy aero/downforce modifications.

I promise I won't go on a crusade to prove you wrong on this statement, just to say that the printing of skidpad g figures are very misleading and really bear nothing with true life. Each corner effect each car differently and you can quite often get less Gs with more speed and vice-versa.

In fact check out the data I provided on the EVO supercar test at the ring (the CXX vs ENZO) as a perfect example of this.

Flugplatz
Enzo 100.3mph G Force 1.56 - CXX 104.0mph G Force 1.39

Hohe Acht
Enzo 66.9mph G Force 1.52 - CXX 69.3mph G Force 1.53

Brunnchen
Enzo 65.7mph G Force 1.46 - CXX 65.9mph G Force 1.52

A much better gauge is the corner speed instead.

The ZR1 is a great handling car, of that there is little doubt but when the track is as bumpy as the ring is the chances of a perfect lap being achieved like the way it would be possible in the GTR are very slim.

I would go out of a limb and say that both the ACR and ZR1 could pull a 10 second gap on the GTR if every corner clicked perfect, meaning another 3 seconds is there.

As for driver factoring into these equations, when the driver is from Formula One background and has been there through it's development I would say a comfortable 8 seconds maybe more over someone like Horst when the condition are identical and maybe 3 seconds over someone with equal skill if unfamiliar with the car but familiar with the track.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2008, 02:45 PM   #18
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I promise I won't go on a crusade to prove you wrong on this statement, just to say that the printing of skidpad g figures are very misleading and really bear nothing with true life. Each corner effect each car differently and you can quite often get less Gs with more speed and vice-versa.
Well it wouldn't matter if you embarked on such a crusade. Skidpad and higher speed cornering g forces will correlate. Again not sure you are reading and understanding what I wrote - CORRELATE. As far as corner speed vs. cornering g force they are one in the same, since

g force = speed^2/(corner radius x gravity constant)
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2008, 05:07 PM   #19
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I posted my reply on the other thread so no need to carry on a debate over both.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2008, 06:11 PM   #20
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I posted my reply on the other thread so no need to carry on a debate over both.
Just following your lead!
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2008, 08:27 PM   #21
GnokGnik
Captain
 
Drives: E92 335i, 997 C2S
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 936
iTrader: (0)

you guys are freaking nerds.
GnokGnik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST