Insurance Companies Changing Policy for Track Days

drburton · 10-20-2008, 09:29 AM

Interesting article, seems you need to make sure you are covered before participating in a track day. My Allstate said I was covered last year but I'll have to revisit if I go back next Spring.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/au...in&oref=slogin

Irb Digital · 10-20-2008, 06:46 PM

Nice find!

Sedan_Clan · 10-20-2008, 06:51 PM

Ouch!

Dascamel · 10-20-2008, 06:57 PM

I've always just assumed my policy wouldn't cover me....

VMRWheels · 10-20-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dascamel

I've always just assumed my policy wouldn't cover me....

That's a good assumption to have. Seems like insurance companies will try to find any reason not to cover you in gray areas like this.

tszene · 10-20-2008, 08:49 PM

last week we attended a HPDE event at millville in Nj, and around noon an insurance agent showed up from Geico and took down most of the plates of the cars getting in the grid. He stayed for about 90 min, and that gave him enough time to take down pretty much everyone's plate driving onto the track.
So first thing, take the plaes off as soon as you arrive.

Seth_Horwitz · 10-20-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tszene

So first thing, take the plaes off as soon as you arrive.

That's really good advice, and I never thought of it. I was always under the impression that insurance was no good once you used it for a purpose other than "passenger transportation." A Land Rover may be built to drive through a four foot river, but good luck getting your insurance agent to buy you new carpet if the river's a bit deeper. It makes sense, though, that these guys would try to create a database like that. I've heard stories of guys who rolled cars on a track, and still managed to get them through on an insurance claim when the car was found ... um ... not on the track. While illegal and morally wrong, keeping your identity out of the insurers pockets beforehand would make things a bit easier.

lucid · 10-20-2008, 10:00 PM

I made the mistake of calling my insurance company, Amica, and inquiring about track coverage, and was told no way. When I called later for unrelated stuff, they would pull up my policy and say, "you race your car, right?" despite the fact that I told them dozens of times I don't race my car. Anyway, I got uncomfortable since they flagged my file in their database somehow, and was concerned that they would try to use that info against me to deny a legitimate claim and I would have to fight them and so on. So, I switched companies last month after my policy expired.

skierman64 · 10-20-2008, 10:25 PM

My insurance changed in June of 2008 to not cover me at HPDEs. I've read the excusion portion of my policys ever since I started doing HPDEs and it finally changed this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tszene

last week we attended a HPDE event at millville in Nj, and around noon an insurance agent showed up from Geico and took down most of the plates of the cars getting in the grid. He stayed for about 90 min, and that gave him enough time to take down pretty much everyone's plate driving onto the track.
So first thing, take the plaes off as soon as you arrive.

The same Geico ass wipe showed up at the BMW CCA event in Mid August at NJMP (Millville, NJ)

Something to think about. My insurance company knows my VIN but not my license plate number. I don't think they legally know have access to the gov't database of license numbers, do they?

I guess next time I'll either put tape on my license plate or just reverse the plate. If you simply remove the plate it exposes the VIN taped to the body under the plate.

lucid · 10-20-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tszene

So first thing, take the plaes off as soon as you arrive.

Might be worth doing, but if they really want to know, they can just camp out at the entrance of the track and write the numbers down as cars show up in the morning unless you are willing to stop before you get to track and remove your license plate, but in NH, there are always cops on the road leading to the track.

lucid · 10-20-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skierman64

The same Geico ass wipe showed up at the BMW CCA event in Mid August at NJMP (Millville, NJ)

How were you able to figure out he was an insurance guy?

skierman64 · 10-21-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

How were you able to figure out he was an insurance guy?

He was driving a moving billboard, it said GEICO in big letters all over it.

Dascamel · 10-21-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

I made the mistake of calling my insurance company, Amica, and inquiring about track coverage, and was told no way. When I called later for unrelated stuff, they would pull up my policy and say, "you race your car, right?" despite the fact that I told them dozens of times I don't race my car. Anyway, I got uncomfortable since they flagged my file in their database somehow, and was concerned that they would try to use that info against me to deny a legitimate claim and I would have to fight them and so on. So, I switched companies last month after my policy expired.

+100000

Don't call your insurance company and ask.

ace996 · 10-21-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skierman64

I guess next time I'll either put tape on my license plate or just reverse the plate. If you simply remove the plate it exposes the VIN taped to the body under the plate.

Yep, painters tape and don't forget to tape over your vin through your windshield, too.

spectrumphoto · 10-22-2008, 12:20 AM

Can anyone make a list of major Insurance carriers and their current status of coverage for Track/training days. It may be helpful to all.

I have Mercury Insurance myself, but cant find my paperwork at present.

dawgdog · 10-24-2008, 08:18 AM

I got a copy of Liberty Mutual's policy and to date it is friendly. My company, Safeco, which is now owned by Liberty Mutual excludes coverage on any surface used for racing. I am waiting for the spring to change companies as I will not be going to the track until then and I am afraid the policy will change.

montreal red · 10-24-2008, 10:51 AM

i would have gotten a used plate from my old car and just put the plate on so that the insurance guy doesnt try to look out for my VIN when he cant get my plates.

Heat00 · 11-10-2008, 08:31 PM

haha, I have a swedish plate from a relative's swedish delivery volvo, that should keep em busy for a bit lol

FStop7 · 11-11-2008, 12:46 AM

Why aren't they being kicked off the property for trespassing?

Dascamel · 11-11-2008, 08:29 PM

Yup, time to slap on ED plates.

AndyE1976 · 12-31-2008, 12:57 PM

I think it's ridiculous that the insurance companies are spying on drivers undertaking HPDE days. If they have an exclusion for track use then they don't have to pay out on an incident that occurs there.

In the UK it was always pretty clear, most insurance excluded tracks so if you wanted coverage you went for a specialist policy. On the road you were covered by your normal road insurance and on the track by the specialist track insurance. You wouldn't expect your track insurance to pay out in a road accident or your road insurance to pay out in a track accident.

The idea that you can be dropped by your insurance company for partaking in an activity for which they don't cover you seems stupid. The very essence of a HPDE is to take fast driving to a suitable environment in which it can be done safely - that's hardly the mark of a reckless person.

Anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Feffman · 01-01-2009, 09:26 AM

We recieved an amendment from USAA about 1-2 years ago stating "No coverage will be applied to any incident on a racing surface". I think the insurance companies have caught on.

I was at Summit Point where a guy totalled his Z06 and supposedly his insurance company covered it because it was an HPDE.

Feff

10-20-2008, 09:29 AM	#1
drburton First Lieutenant Drives: e92 M3 Alpine Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 372 iTrader: (1)	Insurance Companies Changing Policy for Track Days Interesting article, seems you need to make sure you are covered before participating in a track day. My Allstate said I was covered last year but I'll have to revisit if I go back next Spring. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/au...in&oref=slogin
	Tweet

10-20-2008, 06:57 PM	#4
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,663 iTrader: (0)	I've always just assumed my policy wouldn't cover me.... __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

10-20-2008, 08:49 PM	#6
tszene Private First Class Drives: e92 m3 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 181 iTrader: (0)	insurance agent at the track last week we attended a HPDE event at millville in Nj, and around noon an insurance agent showed up from Geico and took down most of the plates of the cars getting in the grid. He stayed for about 90 min, and that gave him enough time to take down pretty much everyone's plate driving onto the track. So first thing, take the plaes off as soon as you arrive.

10-20-2008, 10:00 PM	#8
lucid Major General Drives: E30 M3; Expedition Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 8,057 iTrader: (0)	I made the mistake of calling my insurance company, Amica, and inquiring about track coverage, and was told no way. When I called later for unrelated stuff, they would pull up my policy and say, "you race your car, right?" despite the fact that I told them dozens of times I don't race my car. Anyway, I got uncomfortable since they flagged my file in their database somehow, and was concerned that they would try to use that info against me to deny a legitimate claim and I would have to fight them and so on. So, I switched companies last month after my policy expired. __________________

10-24-2008, 08:18 AM	#16
dawgdog Colonel Drives: 08 e92 M3 dct Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Wa. Posts: 2,008 iTrader: (0)	I got a copy of Liberty Mutual's policy and to date it is friendly. My company, Safeco, which is now owned by Liberty Mutual excludes coverage on any surface used for racing. I am waiting for the spring to change companies as I will not be going to the track until then and I am afraid the policy will change. __________________ AW on Fox Red Extended, Alum trim, ZPP, ZTP, DCT, 19" wheels, Heated front seats, HD radio, Sat radio, I-pod & usb, Premium sound, AP racing BBK, 18 Volk Racing TE 37s, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, AST 5200 Grand Am series suspension.

10-20-2008, 06:46 PM	#2
Irb Digital Lieutenant Drives: ///M E90 MANual Jerez Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: FL Posts: 459 iTrader: (0)	Nice find!

10-20-2008, 06:51 PM	#3
Sedan_Clan Capoeirista Extraordinaire! Drives: AW E92 M3 (prev. an E90 IB M3) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Twilight Zone! Or running your plates... Posts: 4,271 iTrader: (8)	Ouch!

10-22-2008, 12:20 AM	#15
spectrumphoto Just another peanut in the Turd! Drives: 08 M3 e90 IB Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hollywierd, SoCal Posts: 415 iTrader: (2)	Can anyone make a list of major Insurance carriers and their current status of coverage for Track/training days. It may be helpful to all. I have Mercury Insurance myself, but cant find my paperwork at present.

10-24-2008, 10:51 AM	#17
montreal red chris Drives: Mel Red e92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: montreal Posts: 11,532 iTrader: (25)	i would have gotten a used plate from my old car and just put the plate on so that the insurance guy doesnt try to look out for my VIN when he cant get my plates. __________________ 08 e92 M3: MelRed, MDrive, Exec Pack, EDC, 6MT, 19" 220M. Mods: OEM Alu Pedals, UUC RK Knob, Custom Steering Wheel, Recaro Profi SPA seat, Stoptech BBK, SS lines, Bastuck exhaust, VRS Front Lip, HID Angels, KW V3, 18" TE37SL, MS Air Filter.

11-10-2008, 08:31 PM	#18
Heat00 Major Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Weston, Florida Posts: 1,031 iTrader: (0)	haha, I have a swedish plate from a relative's swedish delivery volvo, that should keep em busy for a bit lol __________________ 08 - M3 Sparkling Graphite/blk leather/tech/6 speed 08 - 335i Sport/Prem/Auto White/Terra - AA Exhaust 07 Acura MDX Tech, 07 G35S /Nav

11-11-2008, 12:46 AM	#19
FStop7 FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 5,047 iTrader: (3)	Why aren't they being kicked off the property for trespassing?

11-11-2008, 08:29 PM	#20
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,663 iTrader: (0)	Yup, time to slap on ED plates. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

12-31-2008, 12:57 PM	#21
AndyE1976 Brit in GA Drives: Saab 9-3SE Cab Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 145 iTrader: (0)	I think it's ridiculous that the insurance companies are spying on drivers undertaking HPDE days. If they have an exclusion for track use then they don't have to pay out on an incident that occurs there. In the UK it was always pretty clear, most insurance excluded tracks so if you wanted coverage you went for a specialist policy. On the road you were covered by your normal road insurance and on the track by the specialist track insurance. You wouldn't expect your track insurance to pay out in a road accident or your road insurance to pay out in a track accident. The idea that you can be dropped by your insurance company for partaking in an activity for which they don't cover you seems stupid. The very essence of a HPDE is to take fast driving to a suitable environment in which it can be done safely - that's hardly the mark of a reckless person. Anyone know the reasoning behind this?

01-01-2009, 09:26 AM	#22
Feffman Grand Poobah Drives: M3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gateway To The West Posts: 274 iTrader: (0)	We recieved an amendment from USAA about 1-2 years ago stating "No coverage will be applied to any incident on a racing surface". I think the insurance companies have caught on. I was at Summit Point where a guy totalled his Z06 and supposedly his insurance company covered it because it was an HPDE. Feff __________________ MVP Track Time