Maybe wrong section: tracking a DCT E92? - M3 Forum 2010 2009 BMW M3 2008 BMW M3 BMW E90 M3 E92

RQ · 10-05-2008, 10:05 PM

Apologies in advance if I am posting this in the wrong section.

First post here - for reference this is my 3rd M3 and I recently got rid of my M6. Among other cars. But that is besides the point, here is my problem:

I recently bought an 08 DCT coupe, strictly as a daily driver, but still!

I happened to be at a track weekend and my race car broke an axle so I figured I'd take the M3 out for a bit...

Loved the power, nice enough suspension and good brakes given stock BUT WTF is up with the tranny??

At threshold breaking the downshift paddle becomes disabled, period. Unless I lifted a bit. I tried all modes possible, fact was that regardless of setting under threshold conditions the *** would just be dead. I did this for several laps, very repeatable.

Trying to exit a 2nd gear turn on 5th gear is not fun to say the least.

Hopefully I am just missing a silly setting that makes it all good. Any thoughts appreciated.

Dascamel · 10-05-2008, 10:12 PM

search....

MysticBlue · 10-05-2008, 10:13 PM

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171460

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174854

RQ · 10-05-2008, 10:26 PM

Thanks folks, I did try the search option and good threads but again, very specifically, the problem is:

If I threshold break my DCT M3 from, say 130mph to 40mph my left paddle is completely unresponsive.

IF I were to lift slightly it becomes responsive again but that unsettles the car.

Any on topic feedback welcome!

Ronin13 · 10-05-2008, 10:31 PM

Yes. It is an issue. Members and mags have experienced it. The software update threads posted earlier are discussions of waiting for a fix for it among a few other issues. Try this google search to find the track threads...

dct downshift site:m3post.com

rldzhao · 10-05-2008, 10:43 PM

Here is a more useful thread.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=dct

Use "Advanced Search" for "DCT" "Search in Titles Only" and you will find lots more.

From talking to Mike from this forum, he said the best way to deal with this problem is to shift after you finish braking before entering the turn.

And don't feel too bad about it, even the CLK AMG Black has the same problem (yes I know it's an auto).

enfield · 10-05-2008, 11:19 PM

I experienced this too. The issue according to my understanding is that when traction control / ABS is about to (does not HAVE to) kick in it tends to disable the downshifts. It was very annoying at the track but I learned to adjust.

RQ · 10-05-2008, 11:41 PM

Thanks folks.

Again this M3 is a daily driver but it was just dissapointing that the tranny "froze up" consistently in a track environment, which frankly makes it useless for any kind of track application in its current state.

These are not traits that will ever manifest in a street environment so no issues.

And BTW I still cant think of a better cruiser than this M3, it does everything great and to be clear this is not a put down on DCT.

RQ · 10-05-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enfield

I experienced this too. The issue according to my understanding is that when traction control / ABS is about to (does not HAVE to) kick in it tends to disable the downshifts. It was very annoying at the track but I learned to adjust.

I posted before you did... how do you "adjust" without upsetting the car?

enfield · 10-06-2008, 07:30 AM

Bottom line - you have to brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off - as you are are easing off the brakes you have to downshift. You turn in at the turning point after all this is done and the car is balanced.

What I had been doing was the street braking thing - start of gradually and progressively press harder and release at the turning point. This caused the shifting issues.

If you brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off and downshift as you are easing off then all will be well and the tranny will be just fine thank you!! As you probably know gear changes occur towards the half way point in the braking zone if you are going down one gear. If you need to go down 2 gears then one change occurs when there is 2/3 of the braking zone left and the second change occurs when there is about 1/3 of the braking zone left. This is also the point when you should be almost off the brakes to balance the car prior to the turning point otherwise you can understeer like most automative journalists

Hope that helps.

RQ · 10-08-2008, 10:32 PM

Thanks. Not a reasonable compromise or adjustment though. Precludes normal threshold or trail braking.

Again not a problem for me. Big problem for enthusiasts that buy this car with a track expectation, unless this will be part of the software update that solves the stalling too.

Onwards.

Dascamel · 10-13-2008, 02:38 PM

Good points though about being smooth and balanced before turn in.

footie · 10-13-2008, 02:49 PM

I'm hoping the software upgrade will have cured the downshift problem but if not I always thought that braking hard at the start and easing slightly near the end of the braking zone should allow you to downshift without any problems.

P.S.
I see you are all talking about having the car balanced on entry. I take it you all know you should be on the throttle no matter how little when entering a corner. Reason being is that without throttle you have zero balance and zero load on the suspension.

man02195 · 10-13-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enfield

Bottom line - you have to brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off - as you are are easing off the brakes you have to downshift. You turn in at the turning point after all this is done and the car is balanced.

What I had been doing was the street braking thing - start of gradually and progressively press harder and release at the turning point. This caused the shifting issues.

If you brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off and downshift as you are easing off then all will be well and the tranny will be just fine thank you!! As you probably know gear changes occur towards the half way point in the braking zone if you are going down one gear. If you need to go down 2 gears then one change occurs when there is 2/3 of the braking zone left and the second change occurs when there is about 1/3 of the braking zone left. This is also the point when you should be almost off the brakes to balance the car prior to the turning point otherwise you can understeer like most automative journalists

Hope that helps.

I did it a little differently, and found the car stayed more balanced and I was quicker. Do your braking just as you always would, stay on it hard, all the way to the turn in point (or after turn-in if you have to trail brake a little.) As soon as you lift off the brake, do a quick downshift-downshift, as you start to apply the go pedal. I found the shifts could happen in the 50 feet or so as I crossed the track towards the apex.

10-05-2008, 10:05 PM	#1
RQ New Member Drives: 08 M3 Cpe DCT, others Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: S. Florida Posts: 9 iTrader: (0)	Maybe wrong section: tracking a DCT E92? Apologies in advance if I am posting this in the wrong section. First post here - for reference this is my 3rd M3 and I recently got rid of my M6. Among other cars. But that is besides the point, here is my problem: I recently bought an 08 DCT coupe, strictly as a daily driver, but still! I happened to be at a track weekend and my race car broke an axle so I figured I'd take the M3 out for a bit... Loved the power, nice enough suspension and good brakes given stock BUT WTF is up with the tranny?? At threshold breaking the downshift paddle becomes disabled, period. Unless I lifted a bit. I tried all modes possible, fact was that regardless of setting under threshold conditions the *** would just be dead. I did this for several laps, very repeatable. Trying to exit a 2nd gear turn on 5th gear is not fun to say the least. Hopefully I am just missing a silly setting that makes it all good. Any thoughts appreciated.

10-05-2008, 10:12 PM	#2
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,628 iTrader: (0)	search.... __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

10-05-2008, 10:43 PM	#6
rldzhao Moderator Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 3,032 iTrader: (9)	Here is a more useful thread. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=dct Use "Advanced Search" for "DCT" "Search in Titles Only" and you will find lots more. From talking to Mike from this forum, he said the best way to deal with this problem is to shift after you finish braking before entering the turn. And don't feel too bad about it, even the CLK AMG Black has the same problem (yes I know it's an auto). __________________ '08 Jerez Black M3 Coupé DCT - Advan RS-D/Bridgestone RE-11/Moton Coilover/StopTech BBK/DIY Side Gills Retired: '08 Melbourne Red M3 Coupé 6MT / '08 Barbera Red 335xi Coupé / '07 Salsa Red VW Sagitar / '04 Milano Red Acura TSX

10-06-2008, 07:30 AM	#10
enfield Civilian Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 828 iTrader: (0)	Bottom line - you have to brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off - as you are are easing off the brakes you have to downshift. You turn in at the turning point after all this is done and the car is balanced. What I had been doing was the street braking thing - start of gradually and progressively press harder and release at the turning point. This caused the shifting issues. If you brake hard at the beginning of the braking zone and then ease off and downshift as you are easing off then all will be well and the tranny will be just fine thank you!! As you probably know gear changes occur towards the half way point in the braking zone if you are going down one gear. If you need to go down 2 gears then one change occurs when there is 2/3 of the braking zone left and the second change occurs when there is about 1/3 of the braking zone left. This is also the point when you should be almost off the brakes to balance the car prior to the turning point otherwise you can understeer like most automative journalists Hope that helps. Last edited by enfield; 10-06-2008 at 08:39 AM.

10-13-2008, 02:38 PM	#12
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 1,628 iTrader: (0)	Good points though about being smooth and balanced before turn in. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)

10-05-2008, 10:13 PM	#3
MysticBlue Captain Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here Posts: 603 iTrader: (0)	http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171460 http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174854

10-05-2008, 10:26 PM	#4
RQ New Member Drives: 08 M3 Cpe DCT, others Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: S. Florida Posts: 9 iTrader: (0)	Thanks folks, I did try the search option and good threads but again, very specifically, the problem is: If I threshold break my DCT M3 from, say 130mph to 40mph my left paddle is completely unresponsive. IF I were to lift slightly it becomes responsive again but that unsettles the car. Any on topic feedback welcome!

10-05-2008, 10:31 PM	#5
Ronin13 First Lieutenant Drives: DKG E92 M3, S2K, JGC Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: STL, MO Posts: 362 iTrader: (0)	Yes. It is an issue. Members and mags have experienced it. The software update threads posted earlier are discussions of waiting for a fix for it among a few other issues. Try this google search to find the track threads... dct downshift site:m3post.com

10-05-2008, 11:19 PM	#7
enfield Civilian Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 828 iTrader: (0)	I experienced this too. The issue according to my understanding is that when traction control / ABS is about to (does not HAVE to) kick in it tends to disable the downshifts. It was very annoying at the track but I learned to adjust.

10-05-2008, 11:41 PM	#8
RQ New Member Drives: 08 M3 Cpe DCT, others Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: S. Florida Posts: 9 iTrader: (0)	Thanks folks. Again this M3 is a daily driver but it was just dissapointing that the tranny "froze up" consistently in a track environment, which frankly makes it useless for any kind of track application in its current state. These are not traits that will ever manifest in a street environment so no issues. And BTW I still cant think of a better cruiser than this M3, it does everything great and to be clear this is not a put down on DCT.

10-08-2008, 10:32 PM	#11
RQ New Member Drives: 08 M3 Cpe DCT, others Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: S. Florida Posts: 9 iTrader: (0)	Thanks. Not a reasonable compromise or adjustment though. Precludes normal threshold or trail braking. Again not a problem for me. Big problem for enthusiasts that buy this car with a track expectation, unless this will be part of the software update that solves the stalling too. Onwards.

10-13-2008, 02:49 PM	#13
footie Commander-in-Chief Drives: ???????????? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a house near you Posts: 6,604 iTrader: (0) View footie's Garage	I'm hoping the software upgrade will have cured the downshift problem but if not I always thought that braking hard at the start and easing slightly near the end of the braking zone should allow you to downshift without any problems. P.S. I see you are all talking about having the car balanced on entry. I take it you all know you should be on the throttle no matter how little when entering a corner. Reason being is that without throttle you have zero balance and zero load on the suspension. __________________ 2010 A?diS??va?t 2009 **XF3.0dS Portfolio** (hanging in there by a thread) 2009 Golf GTI Mk6