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      03-02-2011, 11:53 AM   #1
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Anyone here use all season tires?

Currently, I've been using all season tires on my 323i during the winter months here in Maryland and summer tires during the other seasons.

I'm contemplating using all season tires year round when I move up to an E92 M3 (and avoid having multiple sets of wheels/tires and save space in my rather small garage, lol), so I'm curious if any of you E9X M3 owners use all season tires year round.

If so then which all season tires do you specifically use and what size?

Thanks,
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      03-02-2011, 06:32 PM   #2
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Continental ExtremeContact DWS







255/35R19 front on 8.5in, 275/35R19 rear on 9.5in, stock 220M wheels, stock suspension.

In the dry:


Grippy enough for my needs, especially since that's about what my "fun" driving entails. I do about 2-3k miles of these kind of "fun roads" road trip per year, the 520 treadwear rating will suit me well. I no longer track my car, and honestly I don't think I could have gone much faster than I did anyways, and not that I'd want to.

In the snow:


Good in powder, good in flat ground, and I was even fine going up hill and even had to avoid a stuck car so changing direction was ok as well. Just that on packed snow -> ice, stopped on the hill, I couldn't get going and had to clear a patch out then put my drive wheels on them.

Less than $1k USD total even when shipped into Canada. I bet you can get them less than $1k USD installed down there, if you can find stock. Really hard to find now.

Last edited by Veritable; 03-05-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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      03-02-2011, 06:47 PM   #3
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Get ready to hear some passionate responses on this one. Most people who choose an M3 do so for it's great performance. Switching to all-season tires for anything but winter driving certainly won't help performance. (Some have the same thoughts about running 20" wheels but I haven't seen a significant negative impact from them.) If you are going to buy an M3 I think you should spend the extra cash to buy proper snow tires. It doesn't really cost much to run two sets of tires. Remember that you will be extending the life of both sets of tires because when one is on the other is not being used. The only added expense is the value that you lose on owning a second set of wheels. You can always buy a used set of OEM 18" on this forum and sell them when you are done. You shouldn't lose much value that way. If storage space is the primary issue then find a tire dealer that stores snow tires. Here in MN there are many dealers that will store your snows during the summer if you buy from them. I hope you get your M3 soon!
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      03-03-2011, 11:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post
Continental ExtremeContact DWS

Grippy enough for my needs, especially since that's about what my "fun" driving entails. I do about 2-3k miles of these kind of "fun roads" road trip per year, the 520 treadwear rating will suit me well. I no longer track my car, and honestly I don't think I could have gone much faster than I did anyways, and not that I'd want to.

In the snow:


Good in powder, good in flat ground, and I was even fine going up hill and even had to avoid a stuck car so changing direction was ok as well. Just that on packed snow -> ice, stopped on the hill, I couldn't get going and had to clear a patch out then put my drive wheels on them.

Less than $1k USD total even when shipped into Canada. I bet you can get them less than $1k USD installed down there, if you can find stock. Really hard to find now.
Thanks for the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
Get ready to hear some passionate responses on this one. Most people who choose an M3 do so for it's great performance. Switching to all-season tires for anything but winter driving certainly won't help performance. (Some have the same thoughts about running 20" wheels but I haven't seen a significant negative impact from them.) If you are going to buy an M3 I think you should spend the extra cash to buy proper snow tires. It doesn't really cost much to run two sets of tires. Remember that you will be extending the life of both sets of tires because when one is on the other is not being used. The only added expense is the value that you lose on owning a second set of wheels. You can always buy a used set of OEM 18" on this forum and sell them when you are done. You shouldn't lose much value that way. If storage space is the primary issue then find a tire dealer that stores snow tires. Here in MN there are many dealers that will store your snows during the summer if you buy from them. I hope you get your M3 soon!
Thanks for your post, Slicer. The main reason for me not wanting snow tires is because the snowy weather here in Maryland normally isn't too much, and on the days that we do get snow I'll just take my wife's SUV since she's a teacher and the schools would be closed anyhow.

The thing that concerns me about getting snow tires is that suppose I get them and put them on in December... say we don't get snow until January or February. Isn't it bad to use snow tires on dry pavement? Doesn't that wear out the tires quicker and degrade performance?
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      03-03-2011, 11:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin323i View Post
say we don't get snow until January or February. Isn't it bad to use snow tires on dry pavement? Doesn't that wear out the tires quicker and degrade performance?
High performance Winter tires is what I do.

These are not snow/ice tires meaning they perform much like an all season tire when there is no snow on the ground which is most of the time. But the perform better than an all-season when it does happen to snow.

I live in MD also and have used the Dunlop WinterSport 3D

I put them on around Thanksgiving (late Nov) and take them off in late March. So I figure I get 4 months a year. This set on my M3 looks to get around 4 years (maybe 5 years) I am in winter number 3 and they have around half the tread (at least). So they don't wear out super fast but I only put around 3K miles each winter on the car.

This is not me but here is a vid -->







I drove in a bad snow storm very slick out and I did ok with the M3.
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      03-03-2011, 11:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin323i View Post
Thanks for the info!



Thanks for your post, Slicer. The main reason for me not wanting snow tires is because the snowy weather here in Maryland normally isn't too much, and on the days that we do get snow I'll just take my wife's SUV since she's a teacher and the schools would be closed anyhow.

The thing that concerns me about getting snow tires is that suppose I get them and put them on in December... say we don't get snow until January or February. Isn't it bad to use snow tires on dry pavement? Doesn't that wear out the tires quicker and degrade performance?
Snow tires are designed for cold temps / ice / snow. If you use them in temps exceeding 45ish then the soft rubber will wear more quickly. The rubber compound used on performance tires gets hard and slippery in cold conditions (even on dry pavement). Snow tires remain soft and sticky in cold conditions (and snow/ice). Again I would get "performance winter / snow tires" if I were you. I have the pirelli sottozero's in OEM sizes (245/40/18, 265/40/18) which have worked well for me.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ozero+Serie+II
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      03-03-2011, 11:47 AM   #7
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I think all season tires are a bad idea. You paid a major premium for the M3 based on performance. The only thing between the car and the road surface is the tire. If you get away from a premium performance tire, you are pretty much offsetting the car's capabilities. I'm not saying you need to push the limits on a daily basis but getting all seasons seems a bit 'lazy'.

Extra set of wheels and proper winter tires isn't that difficult. Buy a jack, change them out yourself, takes 15 minutes.
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      03-03-2011, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drburton View Post
I think all season tires are a bad idea. You paid a major premium for the M3 based on performance. The only thing between the car and the road surface is the tire. If you get away from a premium performance tire, you are pretty much offsetting the car's capabilities. I'm not saying you need to push the limits on a daily basis but getting all seasons seems a bit 'lazy'.

Extra set of wheels and proper winter tires isn't that difficult. Buy a jack, change them out yourself, takes 15 minutes.
There are lots of places in the country that get very little snow and cold weather. In many places it will get cold for a couple of days then warm up for a couple of weeks before getting cold again for a few days. Winter tires just aren't needed, but all weathers can provide an extra margin of safety when the weather is cold at the expense of only a small amount of warm weather grip vs. a summer tire. In my view the availability of quality all season tires in sizes that fit our cars is a good alternative for many owners. What makes sense for Minnesota isn't necessarily the best choice in Maryland or North Texas.
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      03-03-2011, 12:47 PM   #9
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personally, my suggestion is spend good money on summer tires, and spend small money on winter tires. there are ppl here who drop like $200 per tire on winter tires. I can't imagine doing that, but I don't drive my car everyday for work, and when it's really heavy snow, I don't take it out at all.


I'm also in the mid-atlantic, and we know the winters are not bad here. I even purchased a set of used all-seasons this year, and plan on stretching these out for 2 more winters! (of course, I inspected it before purchase). There are also lots of good cheap options for new all-seasons, like Kumho ASX. It's worth saving money in this aspect, and you can tell a huge difference in performance driving between AS and Summer tires.

I'm in the camp of, "you bought a M3, get your $'s worth by putting on awesome summer tires". The best way to maximize this is to just buy cheap winter tires.
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      03-03-2011, 12:53 PM   #10
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Lots of folks with 'ego' issues who think any sports or sporty car has to have summer tires. I'd say 95%+ of owners NEVER push their cars enough to need 'max performance summer' tires (what the PS2s are), which means they're a waste (they wear much quicker too), plus they offer no winter capabilities.

Enter the world of compromise . The DWSs are the highest performing all-season tire, called 'ultra high performance all-season', and they're just a couple of notches below in dry grip. As Veritable said, no sane person will exceed their capabilities on the streets, plus you have piece of mind when caught in a winter storm. I've been trying to find such a tire in stock sizes, but nobody makes them. If I keep this car, will consider them in those larger sizes; that's exactly what any sporty car needs from the factory (with summer tires a no-cost option), as few owners actually track their cars. Good day gang.
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      03-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #11
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Maryland is f-en cold. I went to work at 4am today and it was 22 degrees.

last year (winter 09-10) we had 50+ inches of snow.
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      03-03-2011, 02:37 PM   #12
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I would opt for dedicated summer/winter setups. Safety is a big concern to me, especially when I have my kids in the car. Why risk having mediocre traction in cold/wet/snowy conditions with an A/S? I'm not worried about my driving skills, I'm more concerned about being able to avoid other drivers in their summer and A/S setups.

Performance winters are designed for cold weather, not just snow/ice. I wouldn't worry about driving in dry conditions. Have a search around here, most people opt for Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (mild to moderate winters) or Blizzak LM60s (more serious snow).

Just my $0.02. I know there are great performance A/S tires out there. Your choice.
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      03-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #13
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I would never drive the M in the snow/rain if I didn't have to (you seem to have various other means of transportation) but on the other hand, it's certainly true that we don't even drive our cars to the extreme where High Performance tires would be beneficial.
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      03-03-2011, 03:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rai View Post
High performance Winter tires is what I do.

These are not snow/ice tires meaning they perform much like an all season tire when there is no snow on the ground which is most of the time. But the perform better than an all-season when it does happen to snow.

I live in MD also and have used the Dunlop WinterSport 3D

I put them on around Thanksgiving (late Nov) and take them off in late March. So I figure I get 4 months a year. This set on my M3 looks to get around 4 years (maybe 5 years) I am in winter number 3 and they have around half the tread (at least). So they don't wear out super fast but I only put around 3K miles each winter on the car.

This is not me but here is a vid -->







I drove in a bad snow storm very slick out and I did ok with the M3.
THANK YOU!!! This is exactly the info I needed... I wasn't aware of the whole high performance winter tire concept... that is indeed very good to know, plus I'm glad you live in Maryland as well so you can totally relate to me.
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      03-03-2011, 03:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
Snow tires are designed for cold temps / ice / snow. If you use them in temps exceeding 45ish then the soft rubber will wear more quickly. The rubber compound used on performance tires gets hard and slippery in cold conditions (even on dry pavement). Snow tires remain soft and sticky in cold conditions (and snow/ice). Again I would get "performance winter / snow tires" if I were you. I have the pirelli sottozero's in OEM sizes (245/40/18, 265/40/18) which have worked well for me.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ozero+Serie+II
Thanks for the suggestion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drburton View Post
I think all season tires are a bad idea. You paid a major premium for the M3 based on performance. The only thing between the car and the road surface is the tire. If you get away from a premium performance tire, you are pretty much offsetting the car's capabilities. I'm not saying you need to push the limits on a daily basis but getting all seasons seems a bit 'lazy'.

Extra set of wheels and proper winter tires isn't that difficult. Buy a jack, change them out yourself, takes 15 minutes.
It's NOT a question of being "lazy"... you do not know me nor my situation to make such a remark about me.

First of all, I can't change the tires myself... I have a medical condition that prevents me from doing much of the work on our cars that you all might take for granted.

Secondly, having a 323i showcar/daily driver... I'm perfectly used to having multiple sets of tires/wheels... I'm just trying to oblige my wife and free up some space in my overly crowded garage, lol.

I've always assumed that performance tires wear quicker than all season tires (mind you my driving style is more laid back and not super aggressive nor do I have a lengthy commute or anything)... another reason why I'd consider all season tires to prolong the use out of them.

I understand what you're saying about the performance aspects of our cars and why we should get the performance tires and I respect that... I'm simply looking for alternatives that will help my "situation".

Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
There are lots of places in the country that get very little snow and cold weather. In many places it will get cold for a couple of days then warm up for a couple of weeks before getting cold again for a few days. Winter tires just aren't needed, but all weathers can provide an extra margin of safety when the weather is cold at the expense of only a small amount of warm weather grip vs. a summer tire. In my view the availability of quality all season tires in sizes that fit our cars is a good alternative for many owners. What makes sense for Minnesota isn't necessarily the best choice in Maryland or North Texas.
Thank you... I agree 100% with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
personally, my suggestion is spend good money on summer tires, and spend small money on winter tires. there are ppl here who drop like $200 per tire on winter tires. I can't imagine doing that, but I don't drive my car everyday for work, and when it's really heavy snow, I don't take it out at all.


I'm also in the mid-atlantic, and we know the winters are not bad here. I even purchased a set of used all-seasons this year, and plan on stretching these out for 2 more winters! (of course, I inspected it before purchase). There are also lots of good cheap options for new all-seasons, like Kumho ASX. It's worth saving money in this aspect, and you can tell a huge difference in performance driving between AS and Summer tires.

I'm in the camp of, "you bought a M3, get your $'s worth by putting on awesome summer tires". The best way to maximize this is to just buy cheap winter tires.
This is another good alternative. Just to remind folks here... on days where there is bad enough snow, I would not be driving the M3 anyhow... I'd be driving my wife's SUV. Thanks for the suggestion, bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Lots of folks with 'ego' issues who think any sports or sporty car has to have summer tires. I'd say 95%+ of owners NEVER push their cars enough to need 'max performance summer' tires (what the PS2s are), which means they're a waste (they wear much quicker too), plus they offer no winter capabilities.

Enter the world of compromise . The DWSs are the highest performing all-season tire, called 'ultra high performance all-season', and they're just a couple of notches below in dry grip. As Veritable said, no sane person will exceed their capabilities on the streets, plus you have piece of mind when caught in a winter storm. I've been trying to find such a tire in stock sizes, but nobody makes them. If I keep this car, will consider them in those larger sizes; that's exactly what any sporty car needs from the factory (with summer tires a no-cost option), as few owners actually track their cars. Good day gang.
I'll be honest and admit that I'm one of the 95% that won't push their cars enough to the limit to warrant the need for max performance summer tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rai View Post
Maryland is f-en cold. I went to work at 4am today and it was 22 degrees.

last year (winter 09-10) we had 50+ inches of snow.
Yeah, I remember... I also remember all that snow on my roof and getting "ice dam" and having water leak thru the ceiling... after that experience I honestly hate excessive snow, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowster View Post
I would opt for dedicated summer/winter setups. Safety is a big concern to me, especially when I have my kids in the car. Why risk having mediocre traction in cold/wet/snowy conditions with an A/S? I'm not worried about my driving skills, I'm more concerned about being able to avoid other drivers in their summer and A/S setups.

Performance winters are designed for cold weather, not just snow/ice. I wouldn't worry about driving in dry conditions. Have a search around here, most people opt for Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds (mild to moderate winters) or Blizzak LM60s (more serious snow).

Just my $0.02. I know there are great performance A/S tires out there. Your choice.
Thanks for the feedback... all good points you mentioned... I may very well consider going with winter tires, especially now that I understand the whole performance winter tire concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huyner328 View Post
I would never drive the M in the snow/rain if I didn't have to (you seem to have various other means of transportation) but on the other hand, it's certainly true that we don't even drive our cars to the extreme where High Performance tires would be beneficial.
What's up, Huy! Nice to see a familiar face on here. Thanks for the feedback, bro.
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      03-03-2011, 04:15 PM   #16
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Well, I've posted my video of the kind the driving I do, and the DWS offers plenty of grip for me. On the last club drive last fall, I was able to pull away from a PS2-clad Z3M Roadster on roads much like that in my video; nobody complained that I was going too slow on my mushy all-seasons

Besides, they DO last longer than summer tires. I got 33k km (20k mi) out of the factory PS2s, and I'm expecting these to go double that at least.

Another advantage: that snow video I posted was last Saturday, temperature was -2C (28F), and I would have been fine if I packed a shovel (easy thing to do in my E90) or the road was less-travelled (stopping on an icy hill is like the worst case scenerio). Today it is sunny and 10C (50F), or warm enough that winter tires will start to get chewed up.

Final advantage: we get a lot of rain here in the Pacific Northwest, and the DWS was able to pull 0.9G on a wet skidpad as tested by TireRack, basically no change from the dry skidpad performance.

Maybe I'm a bad driver or something, but I'll take all the compromises at a price range that is about half of what a set of PS2s would run me. They make these kind of tires for a reason, and that reason is a good reason for me
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      03-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #17
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I have a small, AWD SUV for the snow and ice and generally nasty winter weather. The M does not see the roads during this time.

If you have something else, just keep the tires you have on there and use the other vehicle. It's a general PITA to have to change tires all the time, so if you don't have something else then I'd go for a good set of all weathers.
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      03-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #18
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I have had the Dunlop WinterSport tires on all my cars, not just hi-po cars but SUV, Minivan etc. and so far they have lasted as long as I have owned the cars. This is putting the tires on for around 4 months of the year.

I used to have a S2000 which is RWD not stability or traction control and with these tires it performed well in the winter and especially good in the rain m uch better than the OEM tires.

Now they won't turn a RWD hi-po car into a great winter car or anything, but if you get caught in an unexpected snow you didn't plan to take the SUV, the snow tires will allow you to get around fine.

Also, as you know really 95% of the time you are driving there is not snow on the road since it's cleared quickly, but the main thing about performance snow tires is they are made for cold temps more so that just driving on snow (which a studless full snow tire like a Blizzak is made for and which will do better in, the performance snow tire is more so the car won't get hard to drive in cold temps) and the tires are still OK for an occasional warm winter. They don't get anything wrong with the higher temps, just they are not as grippy as summer tires so you would not be as max performance.
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      03-03-2011, 04:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post
Well, I've posted my video of the kind the driving I do, and the DWS offers plenty of grip for me. On the last club drive last fall, I was able to pull away from a PS2-clad Z3M Roadster on roads much like that in my video; nobody complained that I was going too slow on my mushy all-seasons

Besides, they DO last longer than summer tires. I got 33k km (20k mi) out of the factory PS2s, and I'm expecting these to go double that at least.

Another advantage: that snow video I posted was last Saturday, temperature was -2C (28F), and I would have been fine if I packed a shovel (easy thing to do in my E90) or the road was less-travelled (stopping on an icy hill is like the worst case scenerio). Today it is sunny and 10C (50F), or warm enough that winter tires will start to get chewed up.

Final advantage: we get a lot of rain here in the Pacific Northwest, and the DWS was able to pull 0.9G on a wet skidpad as tested by TireRack, basically no change from the dry skidpad performance.

Maybe I'm a bad driver or something, but I'll take all the compromises at a price range that is about half of what a set of PS2s would run me. They make these kind of tires for a reason, and that reason is a good reason for me


Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I have a small, AWD SUV for the snow and ice and generally nasty winter weather. The M does not see the roads during this time.

If you have something else, just keep the tires you have on there and use the other vehicle. It's a general PITA to have to change tires all the time, so if you don't have something else then I'd go for a good set of all weathers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rai View Post
I have had the Dunlop WinterSport tires on all my cars, not just hi-po cars but SUV, Minivan etc. and so far they have lasted as long as I have owned the cars. This is putting the tires on for around 4 months of the year.

I used to have a S2000 which is RWD not stability or traction control and with these tires it performed well in the winter and especially good in the rain m uch better than the OEM tires.

Now they won't turn a RWD hi-po car into a great winter car or anything, but if you get caught in an unexpected snow you didn't plan to take the SUV, the snow tires will allow you to get around fine.

Also, as you know really 95% of the time you are driving there is not snow on the road since it's cleared quickly, but the main thing about performance snow tires is they are made for cold temps more so that just driving on snow (which a studless full snow tire like a Blizzak is made for and which will do better in, the performance snow tire is more so the car won't get hard to drive in cold temps) and the tires are still OK for an occasional warm winter. They don't get anything wrong with the higher temps, just they are not as grippy as summer tires so you would not be as max performance.
Thanks for the good feedback, fellas... much appreciated!
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      03-03-2011, 09:22 PM   #20
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I use all seasons the entire year. They work fine for me whether it's the Summer or cold temps in the Winter. When it snows I drive the SUV.

Michelin PS2 A/S Plus: 255/35/19, 285/30/19

I remember seeing your car at Chapterfest 2009 - very nice.
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      03-03-2011, 09:36 PM   #21
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I also use Michelin Pilot A/S Plus and they are excellent. I run these as my winters on OEM 19" 220's. 255/35 fronts and 275/35 in the rear. I can't compare them to the summer Conti's yet because I had the installed before I left the dealer in January but I can tell you the perform extremely well on dry, wet and light snow. They feel way more planted than the Toyo Proxes 4's I had on the 335 before I got the M.
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      03-04-2011, 04:17 PM   #22
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Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+ are the best handling all-season tires. Continental Extreme DWS are better than the Michelins in snow, but not quite as responsive in steering.

All-season tires do give up summer grip for tread life and cold weather traction. Not everyone misses the grip, but I can generally tell in my own driving.

If you think that all season tires are right for your situation, make sure to go in with your eyes open. If you know the tradeoff that you are making, you will probably be happy. If you assume they will be just like PS2 and its competitors in the summer, you may be disappointed.

My usual advice is to do summer/winter changeover, but as noted above there can be special circumstances.
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