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      10-02-2008, 10:51 PM   #45
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I just got my carbotech pads, their medium compound. They are supposed to have similar friction to stock pads when cold, and obviously much higher when hot. The guy I spoke with at carbotech says they aren't that noisy on the street (not like the RS19s), and dust should be comparable to stock. They obviously will not have as much bite as their racing compounds or the RS19s, but it is a good compromise for me at the time. He assured me that they would not melt onto the rotors at the track like stock pads do. I'll put them on tomorrow, and try them out on the track this weekend. I'll find out if the sales rep was telling the truth and nothing but the truth...

Having said that, there is no excuse for shipping an M car with fluid that boils and splashes around the engine bay after a session.

I bet the humming noise the OP is referring to indeed had something to do with stock pads. I get that as well occasionally along with vibration after track days. It goes away after 3-4 weeks of normal driving. I wouldn't have too much faith in your dealer diagnosing that. When I took mine in for the vibration, they had no idea what was going on. They wanted to sell me new tires, and I was like, "you've gotta to be kidding me man, it's the brakes can't you see!" and they kept on saying there was nothing wrong with the brakes.

If the pads, together with the fluid flush that was done a couple of months ago, solve my problems, then the total upgrade cost is around ~$500. If they don't, then I'll be pretty pissed as I should not have to pay $7k to have brakes that will hold up during a HPDE day on this car.
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      10-02-2008, 11:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
It boils down to options, your sports car, track car, M car or AMG car, its comes down to options.

AMG gives you sports options, and there are alot that the Merc dealer does not sell but you can buy them from AMG Germany direct as I have done it the past.

If you look at brake options, you have them for Mercs, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.

Whether you track your car or not, or the manufacturer say we don't need better brakes, most of the others give you an option. BMW don't give you any (they do now on the 1series). If they were worried they would not fit under 18" that's fine, so you buy a brake upgrade plus 19".

AMG standard wheels are 18" with 6 pot fronts & 4 pot rears. I don't mind if I have to pay for them but as least give us a reasonable option. We get options like manual to DTC, coupe, vert, sedan, paint, wheels, interior options, audio, CF roof, sunroof the list goes on but no brake upgrade. BMW could probably pull another $500.00 profit out every car they sold if they had that option.

I thought dealers loved selling you the option becasue they could make a large profit out of accessories?.

Here's a new poll to start:-

Would you buy a BMW Caliper upgrade for your M3 for $2000 ( what would a caliper upgarde cost at production time, $250 per wheel BMW cost)

Red, Yellow, Silver or Black

There's nothing wrong with the M3 brakes that a change of pads and fluid doesn't solve. They are amazingly effective, even on the track. I don't need to pay $2000 for a prettier looking brake when I can solve the M3 brake issues with pads and fluid. The only other addition I might make is some brake ducts, which again will be significantly less than $2000.
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      10-04-2008, 08:01 PM   #47
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The carbotech pads were a HUGE success at the track today. The vibration during braking, which used to persist for weeks even after the track day, is gone, and bite is significantly increased. I'll post the details later.
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      10-06-2008, 03:24 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
The carbotech pads were a HUGE success at the track today. The vibration during braking, which used to persist for weeks even after the track day, is gone, and bite is significantly increased. I'll post the details later.
Looking forward to it. Can you also post details on where we can purchase these pads from and were you able to confirm that the pads are not noisy during daily driving?
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      10-06-2008, 11:04 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
Looking forward to it. Can you also post details on where we can purchase these pads from and were you able to confirm that the pads are not noisy during daily driving?
you can review their products at:

http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/bmw.html

I went for the medium compound, XP8, which is supposed to be streetable. I will keep them on the 17th--my last track event of the year. So far they are fine on the street. No issues with cold temp grip. However, they are somewhat noisy right before you come to a stop, so I'll take them out for the winter. With the BMW CAA discount, they are about ~$350 for the 4 corners.

A small thing: the bonding agent overflowed into the pad sensor space, and it wasn't possible to insert/use the sensors. Inconsequential if you won't run them all the time, but a minor quality control issue nevertheless.
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      11-29-2008, 08:43 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
you can review their products at:

http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/bmw.html

I went for the medium compound, XP8, which is supposed to be streetable. I will keep them on the 17th--my last track event of the year. So far they are fine on the street. No issues with cold temp grip. However, they are somewhat noisy right before you come to a stop, so I'll take them out for the winter. With the BMW CAA discount, they are about ~$350 for the 4 corners.

A small thing: the bonding agent overflowed into the pad sensor space, and it wasn't possible to insert/use the sensors. Inconsequential if you won't run them all the time, but a minor quality control issue nevertheless.
Hi Lucid, thanks for the review, I've also purchased the XP8 Carbotech. According to the ctbrakes website, as our rotos have been used with the stock brake pads, they should be resurfaced (turned) prior to installing the XP8s. Did you do this? If so what's involved in resurfacing rotos? I've got no experience with this.

Thanks again.
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      11-29-2008, 03:00 PM   #51
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One lucky sod mate
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      11-30-2008, 03:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggz View Post
Hi Lucid, thanks for the review, I've also purchased the XP8 Carbotech. According to the ctbrakes website, as our rotos have been used with the stock brake pads, they should be resurfaced (turned) prior to installing the XP8s. Did you do this? If so what's involved in resurfacing rotos? I've got no experience with this.

Thanks again.
Putting them on was not an issue. The rep I spoke with on the phone said I could use a sander to remove the stock pad material from the disc surface if I wanted, but since the XP8 material is more aggressive, it would strip the stock pad material off. He was right, but it did take about 5-7 minutes of hard driving on the track. (I am going for more aggresive compound next time.)

The problem has been putting the stock pads back. I kept the XP8s for about 3 weeks on the car without any issues (no vibration or lack of cold grip), and ended up eating through the fronts after about 5 track hours. Completely gone. I put the stock pads back on, and now there is vibration when braking. I was hoping it would go away with time, but it's been almost 7 weeks. Probably has to do with the pad material deposited on the discs not matching the material on the current pads. Annoying...
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      11-30-2008, 04:55 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
There's nothing wrong with the M3 brakes that a change of pads and fluid doesn't solve. They are amazingly effective, even on the track. I don't need to pay $2000 for a prettier looking brake when I can solve the M3 brake issues with pads and fluid. The only other addition I might make is some brake ducts, which again will be significantly less than $2000.
+1

Good brake pads fluid and some SS lines goes a long way. Going to the track with street pads = serious FAIL!!! You'll probably run out of tire grip before you have brake issues (track compound pads)...
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      11-30-2008, 05:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post

I put the stock pads back on, and now there is vibration when braking. I was hoping it would go away with time, but it's been almost 7 weeks. Probably has to do with the pad material deposited on the discs not matching the material on the current pads. Annoying...
You need to re bed the brakes, I always have this problem if I leave the track compound pads on for a while and then going back to street compound..

I usually do the 100mph to thresh hold braking x 3 and let them cool for 15 and then do it again, and it always works for me.. Those pads might work differently though.
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      12-01-2008, 02:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagletangogreen View Post
You need to re bed the brakes, I always have this problem if I leave the track compound pads on for a while and then going back to street compound..

I usually do the 100mph to thresh hold braking x 3 and let them cool for 15 and then do it again, and it always works for me.. Those pads might work differently though.
BIngo! SHould work every time!

Run her up to a hundred, induce full ABS stop, three-four times, clean as a whistle.
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      12-01-2008, 09:07 PM   #56
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I don't know about ABS stops. Bed-in procedures are pad specific as far as I know. I did 8 70-20 steep but not at the limit decelerations when I bought the car. Good idea to try it again though. Thanks.
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      03-30-2009, 11:20 AM   #57
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Would you go for the XP10, XP12 or XP16 or will your change to Pagids RS19 ?
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      03-30-2009, 11:51 AM   #58
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Quote:
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Would you go for the XP10, XP12 or XP16 or will your change to Pagids RS19 ?
I already moved to the RS19s.
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      03-30-2009, 11:59 AM   #59
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Thanks Lucid.
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      03-30-2009, 05:39 PM   #60
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Hi Guys,

Read all the posts and I am more confused than before.

Facts: 2008, E92M3, 10,000 miles, 50% track use, since last fast tracks, evident vibration on front (left mainly) while breaking, some blue and irregular lines on front discs, bite is normal or better (?): my conclusion was wrapped discs.
1, reading the posts, could it be irregular pads depot on the discs?

2, Was thinking about moving to ap racing, but it seems they are basic products from the very good company. It seems also that 6 pistons is not better than what I have.

3, Is it reasonnable to think that RS19 and brake fluid will be the best $€/efficacy move?

Thanks
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      03-30-2009, 06:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bher View Post
Facts: 2008, E92M3, 10,000 miles, 50% track use, since last fast tracks, evident vibration on front (left mainly) while breaking, some blue and irregular lines on front discs, bite is normal or better (?): my conclusion was wrapped discs.
1, reading the posts, could it be irregular pads depot on the discs?
That is very likely if you were running the stock pads or any other pads that were not designed to operate at track temps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bher View Post
3, Is it reasonnable to think that RS19 and brake fluid will be the best $€/efficacy move?
Yes, doing those 2 things alone will result in a drastic improvement.
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      03-31-2009, 12:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
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That is very likely if you were running the stock pads or any other pads that were not designed to operate at track temps.
Thanks for replying.

Car was stock.

The "problem" is that I went to the dealer yesterday and they suggested to change discs and pads under warranty, still explaining between the lines that one time was Ok but if I come back every year with this they won't assume brake change as part of the normal use of my car under full coverage.

My point is more that I don't want to spill my chance but changing the discs if it is not necessary.

If it is depots of pads, after how many miles should it be cleared?

Last edited by bher; 03-31-2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason: mispelling
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      03-31-2009, 01:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Well, 7000 miles of exuberant driving and a reasonably (ok very) aggressive track day saw my brakes making a humming noise in use. No depredation in braking but an annoying humming noise.

After much investigation my dealer can’t find anything wrong but acknowledges the humming noise and BMW Germany have told them to just replace all my pads and discs under warranty to be on the safe side.

So, all new brakes for me tomorrow for free!
You are very lucky, if you did some intense braking at high speed, noise
would have disappeared.

You should mount for Pagid Racing RS19 for the track day.
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      03-31-2009, 03:20 AM   #64
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There's no point in using such an aggressive pad (track) for street use, excessive noise faster wear of the rotor.
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      03-31-2009, 07:25 AM   #65
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Quote:
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If it is depots of pads, after how many miles should it be cleared?
It can take some time. 4-8 weeks in my experience. It happened to me once, and I never ran with stock pads on the track after that. The dealer was pretty clueless about the problem. They told me I needed a new set of tires, and I told them it wasn't the tires. Interesting how everybody wants to sell you tires the first chance they get. Anyway, a pad manufacturer suggested sanding the surface of the rotors with an orbital sander to get rid of the uneven deposits, but I didn't try that. Another approach would be to mount the RS19s and let them remove the stock deposits. Also, are you sure you didn't use your hand brake after your session on the track? That can warp your rotors indeed.
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      03-31-2009, 10:01 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Also, are you sure you didn't use your hand brake after your session on the track? That can warp your rotors indeed.
I've heard this and I have a stupid question about this I'd like to ask. Isn't the hand brake hooked to the rear tires only and isn't there a separate set of parking brake shoes on the car?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...85&hg=34&fg=30

I guess I'm wondering if it's possible to warp the front rotors with the parking brake and if even the rear rotors are impacted by them?

Having said that, I never use my hand brake at the track because I'd rather not for no reason than warp my rotors.
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