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      09-24-2008, 12:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil. Lucas View Post
I wouldn't be too quick to jump sides swamp, I'm still not convinced that the problems "most" people are reporting arent because of stock pads/fluid..
Even if these are the only problems they indicate a system not quite up to par for the way folks actually use the car (track and street). IMO there is no excuse for this. I have been very loyal defending BMW brakes which are in general quite good. I have also spoken out time and time against pretty bright red multi-piston calipers. However, in this case the evidence is really stacking up. How many folks have had fade, boil, pad transfer, etc.?
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      09-24-2008, 05:07 PM   #24
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New discs and pads all round for free today after 7500 miles.

Cant complain, if she needs uprated brakes at some stage so be it. Otherwise I'll have new OEMs after each track day for nowt.
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      09-24-2008, 05:14 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Leg View Post
New discs and pads all round for free today after 7500 miles.

Cant complain, if she needs uprated brakes at some stage so be it. Otherwise I'll have new OEMs after each track day for nowt.

I take it you experience the other day at Croft didn't do your brakes any favours. I told you to take it easy and give them only a few laps at a time.

Good news they were replaced under warranty.
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      09-24-2008, 05:22 PM   #26
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On the 335i, stock pads held up a bit better, probably b/c of less weight & power. I would expect a bit more stock M3.
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      09-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
I take it you experience the other day at Croft didn't do your brakes any favours. I told you to take it easy and give them only a few laps at a time.

Good news they were replaced under warranty.

Hmm, lemme get this straight footie. V8 M3, 414bhp, rwd, Croft Circuit, and take it easy.

Nope, lost me I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
On the 335i, stock pads held up a bit better, probably b/c of less weight & power. I would expect a bit more stock M3.
Obviously werent trying hard enough
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      09-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #28
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Thumbs down 135i have better brakes than the M3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Even if these are the only problems they indicate a system not quite up to par for the way folks actually use the car (track and street). IMO there is no excuse for this. I have been very loyal defending BMW brakes which are in general quite good. I have also spoken out time and time against pretty bright red multi-piston calipers. However, in this case the evidence is really stacking up. How many folks have had fade, boil, pad transfer, etc.?
So the question I have for everyone is why does the 135i come with these really impressive 6 piston BMW front calipers while the M3 does with a single floating piston?

Hell, even the rear caliper on the 135 is a two piston set-up versus the M3!

What's up with that? I thought the M division was to offer the best that BMW had to offer!
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      09-25-2008, 01:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtlexec View Post
So the question I have for everyone is why does the 135i come with these really impressive 6 piston BMW front calipers while the M3 does with a single floating piston?

Hell, even the rear caliper on the 135 is a two piston set-up versus the M3!

What's up with that? I thought the M division was to offer the best that BMW had to offer!
Read up. This has been discussed to death on the forum. The bottom line is that sexy colors and multiple pistons are very low on the list of things that actually matter in a brake system. Case and point the sexy looking (but very cheap/low end) Brembos on the 350Z. Those brakes pretty much such. I don't have direct experience with the 135i brakes but I suspect they are not as powerful nor fade resistant as the M3s stoppers. They are there primarily because of looks, what the competition is up to and marketing.
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      09-25-2008, 02:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Even if these are the only problems they indicate a system not quite up to par for the way folks actually use the car (track and street). IMO there is no excuse for this. I have been very loyal defending BMW brakes which are in general quite good. I have also spoken out time and time against pretty bright red multi-piston calipers. However, in this case the evidence is really stacking up. How many folks have had fade, boil, pad transfer, etc.?
Thing is, everything is a trade off! For most people, pad and rotor life, easy of use, quietness, replacement cost ect. is more important then how they perform after 3+ track days. The brakes wern't designed to be the ultimate track setup, they are however very good street brakes that can be used on the track with good results too.
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      09-25-2008, 04:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
On the 335i, stock pads held up a bit better, probably b/c of less weight & power. I would expect a bit more stock M3.
Same observation here. My 335i had 10,000 miles on it and never had issues with the brakes.
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      09-25-2008, 04:42 AM   #32
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Yeh, there two things that upset me with BMW's and I have owned several dozen, Brakes look s**thouse and there mufflers always hang down and look rusty & dirty.

After owning 3 different X5's (Diesel turbos and now the final one a twin turbo) they finally put chrome tips on. I mean the first one they were hidden behind rear skirt, second one just metal pipes and finally the last one has chrome tips and that's on there executive models. There 325's were the same.

I think the problem lies in that these two sections at BMW that handle brakes & exhaust is run by old f**ts that have not reached retirement age. I mean its embarasing. Here we are with high end cars and there rivals Merc & Audi must be laughing

I mean you can buy a low entry Toyota and get chrome tips and better looking brakes.

You know BMW you can have good ugly brakes or you can have good looking good brakes.

BMW are you listening, get your head out of your a**e and listen to your clients, we buy the cars you don't.

Next car AMG again I think, protest vote, hit them where it hurts, there pockets.
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      09-25-2008, 07:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
Yeh, there two things that upset me with BMW's and I have owned several dozen, Brakes look s**thouse and there mufflers always hang down and look rusty & dirty.

After owning 3 different X5's (Diesel turbos and now the final one a twin turbo) they finally put chrome tips on. I mean the first one they were hidden behind rear skirt, second one just metal pipes and finally the last one has chrome tips and that's on there executive models. There 325's were the same.

I think the problem lies in that these two sections at BMW that handle brakes & exhaust is run by old f**ts that have not reached retirement age. I mean its embarasing. Here we are with high end cars and there rivals Merc & Audi must be laughing

I mean you can buy a low entry Toyota and get chrome tips and better looking brakes.

You know BMW you can have good ugly brakes or you can have good looking good brakes.

BMW are you listening, get your head out of your a**e and listen to your clients, we buy the cars you don't.

Next car AMG again I think, protest vote, hit them where it hurts, there pockets.
Maybe its just old farts that buy middle of the road cars then complain that it doesn't have all the styling extras of the more expensive, better models in the range?
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      09-25-2008, 08:36 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Hmm, lemme get this straight footie. V8 M3, 414bhp, rwd, Croft Circuit, and take it easy.

Nope, lost me I'm afraid.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be smart mate. This was what I wrote at the time

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Barcroft, sunny in and sunny out are all fast corners, so build you confidence and don't just go barreling in there. Don't do more than a handful of laps at a time, there is three braking points from decent speeds which will put real pressure on the brakes, let them cool.
and after hearing that you had just got your brakes replaced I put two and two together and thought you had clearly over cooked your brakes during your session at croft.
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      09-25-2008, 06:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lil. Lucas View Post
Maybe its just old farts that buy middle of the road cars then complain that it doesn't have all the styling extras of the more expensive, better models in the range?
Listen smart a**e I have owned 27 BMW and I had a hand made 850 V12 Ci Manual 6sp made by the BMW Motor Sport Division. A M3 fully optioned up in Autralia as you know is $210,000, so you can guess what the 850 cost.

And for that price you should get what I said in my previous post. I don'y care what you pay for your car its what I paid for it and for $210,000 I can hop on a plane come to your house, steal your brakes and put them I my car.
I have about $750,000 worth of cars in my garage and the BMW is the only one with s**ty looking brakes and exhaust.

And tell me what better model in the range comes with these brakes, the 135?

I have better brakes on my 1974 FJ40.
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      09-26-2008, 01:46 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
Listen smart a**e I have owned 27 BMW and I had a hand made 850 V12 Ci Manual 6sp made by the BMW Motor Sport Division. A M3 fully optioned up in Autralia as you know is $210,000, so you can guess what the 850 cost.

And for that price you should get what I said in my previous post. I don'y care what you pay for your car its what I paid for it and for $210,000 I can hop on a plane come to your house, steal your brakes and put them I my car.
I have about $750,000 worth of cars in my garage and the BMW is the only one with s**ty looking brakes and exhaust.

And tell me what better model in the range comes with these brakes, the 135?

I have better brakes on my 1974 FJ40.
Wow, you're a class act! I'm more then aware what cars cost in Australia as I live in Melbourne myself. The brakes on the 135i are not better then the brakes on the M3! Braking tests, reports on fade can confirm this. Floating rotors with calipers that apply more torque FTW
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      09-26-2008, 02:18 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Lil. Lucas View Post
Wow, you're a class act! I'm more then aware what cars cost in Australia as I live in Melbourne myself. The brakes on the 135i are not better then the brakes on the M3! Braking tests, reports on fade can confirm this. Floating rotors with calipers that apply more torque FTW
First we are talking about what the brakes look like & perform like. 135 has an option of better brakes if you buy the BMW performance brake kit, you have an option there don't you.

Second, you said get a better model in the range with better brakes, again you tell me what model has 4 or 6 piston good looking brakes compared to a AMG brake.

There's none, so I actually have to down grade to a one series to get a half decent caliper.

And if you read my thread properly I stated that you lived in Australia, but it looks like your eyes are faster than your brain.

So as I said BMW needs to do better in there brake dept and offer options in there luxury car & M class where braking is a concern.

And for your info my X5 e70 TT diesel has as standard a larger rotors than is on the V8 X5 and it's got s**t looking calipers as well.

The M3 should have better brakes, its a performance car, and people are not happy.
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      09-26-2008, 04:02 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
Listen smart a**e I have owned 27 BMW and I had a hand made 850 V12 Ci Manual 6sp made by the BMW Motor Sport Division. A M3 fully optioned up in Autralia as you know is $210,000, so you can guess what the 850 cost.

And for that price you should get what I said in my previous post. I don'y care what you pay for your car its what I paid for it and for $210,000 I can hop on a plane come to your house, steal your brakes and put them I my car.
I have about $750,000 worth of cars in my garage and the BMW is the only one with s**ty looking brakes and exhaust.

And tell me what better model in the range comes with these brakes, the 135?

I have better brakes on my 1974 FJ40.
Wow what an attitude.

Almost no one here cares how many cars nor how many BMWs you do/have owned. We don't care how much you paid for them either. This type of attitude will not get you any respect at all. Don't you realize how much of a shallow braggart you sound like from such posts?

I can read between the lines to hear you are concerned about performance but you really seem obsessed by looks over performance. As much as I am convinced that the brakes are a bit of a weak spot on the new M3 you need to learn and accept that bright colored paint, nice looking calipers and multiple pistons have almost NOTHING to do with actual solid brake performance.
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      09-26-2008, 10:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrob View Post
First we are talking about what the brakes look like & perform like. 135 has an option of better brakes if you buy the BMW performance brake kit, you have an option there don't you.

Second, you said get a better model in the range with better brakes, again you tell me what model has 4 or 6 piston good looking brakes compared to a AMG brake.

There's none, so I actually have to down grade to a one series to get a half decent caliper.

And if you read my thread properly I stated that you lived in Australia, but it looks like your eyes are faster than your brain.

So as I said BMW needs to do better in there brake dept and offer options in there luxury car & M class where braking is a concern.

And for your info my X5 e70 TT diesel has as standard a larger rotors than is on the V8 X5 and it's got s**t looking calipers as well.

The M3 should have better brakes, its a performance car, and people are not happy.
LOL I'm not even sure what point you are trying to get across anymore, just chill out dude! Life isn't all that serious, I for one don't have a problem with how the brakes on the E9x M3 look or work. I'm sure as hell not one to want multi piston brakes for how they look, lol. But hey, if you're that unhappy about it, vote with your wallet
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      09-26-2008, 10:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Wow what an attitude.

Almost no one here cares how many cars nor how many BMWs you do/have owned. We don't care how much you paid for them either. This type of attitude will not get you any respect at all. Don't you realize how much of a shallow braggart you sound like from such posts?

I can read between the lines to hear you are concerned about performance but you really seem obsessed by looks over performance. As much as I am convinced that the brakes are a bit of a weak spot on the new M3 you need to learn and accept that bright colored paint, nice looking calipers and multiple pistons have almost NOTHING to do with actual solid brake performance.
Still not sure why the recent change of heart Swamp? Change the perspective, under your use have you felt the brakes to be anything but spectacular?
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      09-28-2008, 10:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil. Lucas View Post
Still not sure why the recent change of heart Swamp? Change the perspective, under your use have you felt the brakes to be anything but spectacular?
This is simply a classic case of THE body of evidence vs. MY personal body of evidence. No one has ever complained about the M3s brakes on the street. Many have complained about various problems on the track. I have not yet had the time for any track time hence I have no personal experience. Surely this does not mean I don't acknowledge that others have legitimate complaints. I can now look forward to this weakness myself once on the track.
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      09-28-2008, 11:36 PM   #42
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It boils down to options, your sports car, track car, M car or AMG car, its comes down to options.

AMG gives you sports options, and there are alot that the Merc dealer does not sell but you can buy them from AMG Germany direct as I have done it the past.

If you look at brake options, you have them for Mercs, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.

Whether you track your car or not, or the manufacturer say we don't need better brakes, most of the others give you an option. BMW don't give you any (they do now on the 1series). If they were worried they would not fit under 18" that's fine, so you buy a brake upgrade plus 19".

AMG standard wheels are 18" with 6 pot fronts & 4 pot rears. I don't mind if I have to pay for them but as least give us a reasonable option. We get options like manual to DTC, coupe, vert, sedan, paint, wheels, interior options, audio, CF roof, sunroof the list goes on but no brake upgrade. BMW could probably pull another $500.00 profit out every car they sold if they had that option.

I thought dealers loved selling you the option becasue they could make a large profit out of accessories?.

Here's a new poll to start:-

Would you buy a BMW Caliper upgrade for your M3 for $2000 ( what would a caliper upgarde cost at production time, $250 per wheel BMW cost)

Red, Yellow, Silver or Black
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      09-29-2008, 11:27 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
Why not track pads for the street? How noisy are they under normal driving? Do they squeal a lot during light braking? I hardly ever brake during daily driving so I'm thinking I would be fine running track pads all the time. Anyone has other thoughts on this?
You can run track pads on the street.

Noisey, yes. Like a school bus, mostly under light braking.

I ran Pagid RS19's on my GT3 all the time. On the street, initial bite was not as good as stock pads, but very managable and safe still, IMHO.

On the street, they are quite noisey under lighter braking, like a school bus or garbage truck. BFD!

On the track they are fricken boat anchors (and quiet). Once you get them up to operating temp, they are phenominal. They are also fairly low dusting and friendly to the rotors, and they last a LONG LONG time. After years of goofing around with different pads and compounds, I am sold on the RS19's. The trade off is noisey street braking. BFD. I actually think it is funny squealing up to a stop and having people look at me like "WTF? Fix your brakes moron". lol

Where I live, it basically never get much below freezing. Typical temps in the morning may be 28-40 in the winter. I found the pads to be just fine in these conditions. You just have to take it a bit easy for the first few stops. It simply requires a bit more pedal effort when they are that cold. Still totally safe IMHO.
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      09-29-2008, 01:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3 Tim View Post
You can run track pads on the street.

Noisey, yes. Like a school bus, mostly under light braking.

I ran Pagid RS19's on my GT3 all the time. On the street, initial bite was not as good as stock pads, but very managable and safe still, IMHO.

On the street, they are quite noisey under lighter braking, like a school bus or garbage truck. BFD!

On the track they are fricken boat anchors (and quiet). Once you get them up to operating temp, they are phenominal. They are also fairly low dusting and friendly to the rotors, and they last a LONG LONG time. After years of goofing around with different pads and compounds, I am sold on the RS19's. The trade off is noisey street braking. BFD. I actually think it is funny squealing up to a stop and having people look at me like "WTF? Fix your brakes moron". lol

Where I live, it basically never get much below freezing. Typical temps in the morning may be 28-40 in the winter. I found the pads to be just fine in these conditions. You just have to take it a bit easy for the first few stops. It simply requires a bit more pedal effort when they are that cold. Still totally safe IMHO.
Your description of the Pagids sounds exactly like my recollection of PF-01s on the street. I ran Performance Friction-01s on street for several months at a time. Funny thing, though; they didn't squeal all the time, but just often enough to be embarassing. Same looks as you got with the RS-19s. Same very slight difference in friction when very cold, but never really an issue. I guess when it comes time to buy track pads, I might try them out if the PFs are not available.
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