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      09-11-2008, 08:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtlexec View Post
For what it's worth, I have two Escort 9500i - one in each my cars. One Red and one Blue LED display units.

AND I've gotten two tickets - both on laser - one in each car within a 1 year time period!

When I called Escort customer support to inquire, they were like "well, you know no unit is totally accurate." OMG WTF

I can't say I'm all that happy with Escort after all between the two I've spent over $900... and now add to tickets to that and I'm up to $1500!

It sucks when you loose confidence in your radar detector.
I think when you have a radar detector you need a bit of common sense & judgement as well. If you expect that the radar detector alone is going to keep your ass from getting a ticket, then you probably deserved em both
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      09-11-2008, 11:24 PM   #46
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Exclamation Your missing my point......

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Originally Posted by M2381 View Post
Having radar detectors does not make you invulnerable to cops it just gives u warning to where they might be or if your in their sights. It is still ultimately up to you to look out for cops and keep your eyes peeled for them
You missed my point here.... I never said a detector makes you invisible!

There was NO WARNING in either case!

The Escort FAILED to alert me of the cops at all.

Both cops were polite and shared with me their laser gun data..... while my Escort sat there nice and silent.
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      09-12-2008, 08:45 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Imagine you're travelling down a mountain road, when your V1 goes off. The arrows light up, and you begin to search for your bogey. You're hunting, and hunting, but you don't see anything. Finally, you round a curve in the road when you see a car, off in the distance on the side of the road. Your eyes fix on the car, and you know you've finally got your bogey. You're feeling satisfied that the V1 didn't let you down...when all of a sudden your car goes careening off an embankment and you get killed. You'll never know if that really was a bogey or not...because you're dead.

Tag line:
Valentine V1 -- it doesn't take your breath away, it takes your eyes off of the road.

Disclaimer: Valentine Research LLC is not responsible for any accidental deaths caused by taking your eyes off of the road.
Your right, that was absurd. My reply was perhaps filled with a bit too much passion for a technical debate, but do you usually make a habit of mocking one's passion? I enjoy my system, and in comparing all things considered I got a nice value on it when I purchased mine.

The difference between my reply and yours is that my shpeel was talking more about technique or the philosophy in using the device. Your 'scenario' was just taking everything beyond a reasonable measure. My post above also was not ment as a point of debate for you, it was a reply to someone else why the arrows are beneficial. You paint a sad picture when you say someone is trying to look so far into the distance that they lose perspective of their immediate surroundings. Perhaps when you paint your pictures you should assume poeple have alittle more responsibility when driving than that. At least on this forum of driving enthusiasts. While your point is clear, and I understand it is an exaggeration, its not really an appropriete rebutle to my comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
But seriously, you V1 guys fill these pages with all kinds of this nonsense, but can't even explain how the V1 would cause you to act any differently than a 9500 owner. When the 9500 goes off, you start looking for the bogey -- it's the same exact process. My brain is big enough that I can deduce in 1 or 2 second whether the bogey is coming from the front or rear; I don't need the arrows. If those arrows are really a necessary crutch for you guys, I can only say that finding the bogey is the least of your concerns.
The difference is that with the V1, you know absolutely where the source is.

With any other radar detector you might have a good idea but you won't be sure until you actually see the source, or enough time passes for you to travel a distance that would change the signal strength.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
You V1 guys are just like the Linux zealots in the computer industry. Your zealotry is so overbearing that's exactly why I don't like participating in these V1-related threads. All of these threads degenerate exactly the same. You guys can't even even fathom that radar detection technology might have begun to advance in the last 10 years.
I wouldn't say this discussion degenerated until you posted your scenary. And even while we debated over which was better I was continually asking you about your system more to learn about it. I respect your opinion in most things. But your opinion of the degenerating maturity of this discussion is unfounded. I encourage you not to mistake passion with immaturity or ignorance, dispite how similar they might be in reason.

As for our knowledge of signal processing and radar detection technology innovations over the last 10 years. I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to think there aren't better systems. But we don't have an endless amount of options, and Valentine does update the V1. Its not the same system that it was when it first came out. In either case, the power of the system alone, while still the most important, isn't the only criteria. Price, ease of use, installation, and legality are also factors. Your current system is already approaching the price limit of what most poeple would consider buying. But your system comes with a laser jammer, which is definately worth it. The 9500ix is cheaper with many of the same radar functions, gps, database, false alert deterants. But it is still more expensive than the V1 and the baseline detection abilities are pretty much the same for all 3 systems in question.

So in short you have a simple option.

-Save money, get the same amount of detecting power, and get a V1.

-Spend alittle more for the database. Get a 9500xi.

-The 9500ci is only an option if you are looking for a laser jammer as well.

Regardless, whether the arrows are a gimmick placebo effect or actually helpful they give an added sense of security. I think that knowing where the bogeys are immediately is nice without having to use deduction to figure it out and guess at it. A lot of times simply your state of mind in a given environment can help or hurt by a large margin.
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      09-12-2008, 08:53 AM   #48
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Coincidentally, PG. Have you ever used a V1?
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      09-12-2008, 09:18 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek
Imagine you're travelling down a mountain road, when your V1 goes off. The arrows light up, and you begin to search for your bogey. You're hunting, and hunting, but you don't see anything. Finally, you round a curve in the road when you see a car, off in the distance on the side of the road. Your eyes fix on the car, and you know you've finally got your bogey. You're feeling satisfied that the V1 didn't let you down...when all of a sudden your car goes careening off an embankment and you get killed. You'll never know if that really was a bogey or not...because you're dead.

Tag line:
Valentine V1 -- it doesn't take your breath away, it takes your eyes off of the road.

Disclaimer: Valentine Research LLC is not responsible for any accidental deaths caused by taking your eyes off of the road.
Why would I have to keep looking at the V1? I looked at it once, it told me theres 1 bogey ahead, why on God's earth would I have to stare at it intently? If the bogey counter changes it beeps differently, I won't even have to look at it. We're not Linux zealots and I personally find that comment insulting coming from a guy like you. We really stand by V1 and like to tell everyone how good it is, it doesn't need cheap GPS gimmicks.
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      09-12-2008, 11:09 AM   #50
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The V1 arrows come into play when they change from front to back and no bogey is seen... you know you have passed the hidden bogey and can speed again. Additionally, if you are passing a speed trap with multiple radar units, you can differentiate this with the arrows. A local favorite is the cop sitting fairly close to a stationary "Your Speed Is" sign. Does the GPS lockout feature for such stationary emplacements prevent detection of a nearby police unit? (Curious, really don't know, is a major reservation for me about buying any GPS-aware unit)

I'd probably buy a 9500ci if it had arrows, honestly; they are useful. I concur that the V1 tech is old, but nothing has advanced beyond it to the point where the V1 is obsolete.
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      09-12-2008, 03:05 PM   #51
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Not trying to be a dick, just pointing out the inquiries into the 9500 that I had posed. I'm genuinely interested in learning about it if it is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
On a side note, how good is the display on the 9500ci? Can it display all of the features mentioned (minus the database functions) at once? Or is there a toggle?

A strength meter for each different band, but under the condition of a toggle switch is pretty much the same interface wise as the V1 who displays the signal strength of the strongest band/signal that is getting registered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I must of missed a big point of the database then. Is it a public database? Pulling in input from a 3rd party site? I was thinking it was a local HD or flash drive in the device coupled with GPS positioning.

If it is a public database, that is pretty cool. And I can see the benefit. However, is it good enough to be able to tell that a car you pass just passed a cop 2 miles infront of you that he detected a cop there, uploaded the blip to the database, and then you downloaded it and can have forewarning of a cop? It seems this may be a future iteration. (like a 10minute database entry for a confirmed cop position) I would be surprised if it is already to this point.
I could see where these might of been misconstrued through text over the internet. So its no big deal. But I was trying to understand your side of the debate.

I kind of feel like I could live without a GPS guided system though if that is the primary difference between the brands. I mean if there is a signal shot out then the V1 would detect it anyways. So would the 9500's even without a GPS database. Only if there were laser oriented speed cameras and they were recorded into the database would functionality really be a large margin over just a plain detector like a V1.
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      09-12-2008, 03:17 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Mostly agreed about MY system. But the 9500i is only $50 more than the V1. In my mind, that's effectively the same price...especially if you can get it discounted at Best Buy or some place like that. We're talking about a $70k car, and $400-$500 is in the noise. So for me, whether it's $400 or $500, they are the same. So I don't agree with the comparisons of the V1 to 9500ix on price alone, because I consider them to be effectively the same price.
It really all depends on how you look at it. 70,000 compared to 70,400 is small. Not even a 1% change. But $400 to $500, this is a 25% increase in price over $400.

Another way of looking at it is, 70k for a M3, 100-200(150 avg) for painted reflecters, 2k for wheels, 1k for tires, 100-200(150 avg) for CF kidney grilles, 1k for clear bra, 400 for tint, then 400 for a radar detector. (These are estimated numbers) That totals about 3.1k for after market products. And this is a very modest list for some of the poeple that are adding to their cars. If it was HRE rims it would be more like 4500. Stuff adds up quick. Unless your just stupid rich, you need to take notice where you can.

However, I will agree that a $50 difference is pretty negligible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
No I haven't; and you want to hear the irony of all of this? I had never heard of the V1 until AFTER I had bought the 9500i at Best Buy. But after I saw so many threads praising it, I ran through a series of pro's-cons to see if I would have bought the V1 instead. (I'm a pretty honest person like that...you'll notice I scrapped the HRE 540R's after I didn't like them -- even though I had dreamed about those wheels on a car for 10 years.) Afterwards, I decided that I still wanted the 9500i over the V1. But I still didn't like the windshield mount of the 9500i. So that's when I bought the 9500ci and custom installation. Now the 9500i sits in my wife's Camry Hybrid -- as if it's going to do a lot of good there.
Thats ok, honestly I haven't ever tried a 9500 either. In fact one of the bigger selling points for me on the V1 is that because its been out for so long, its been tried and tested. And it still has such a strong following. That impressed me a bit. Especially when its in something as hit or miss as a functioning radar detector. If it fails, then poeple would bail on it pretty quickly.

Also, for my own personal situation. I don't have my M3 yet. Haven't even ordered it yet as much as I'm chomping at the bit for it. I'm trying to wait to see how the market plays out and see what happens. I fear its a losing battle though. I'm starting to think about it all the time, which isn't healthy.

I can see where the zealot comment came from as well. Although, I like to think my arguments were grounded at least alittle.
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      09-12-2008, 03:20 PM   #53
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Coincidentally, I saw a shot of your car in one of Krueger's photoshoots from some meet. It looks pretty awesome. I'm not familiar with the HRE's look to know if they were on it at the time of the photo. What rims do you have on it now? Back to stock?
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      09-12-2008, 04:19 PM   #54
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I already looked at the 9500ci install photos.

Pretty
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      09-15-2008, 05:10 PM   #55
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Actually, you can't go wrong with either V1 or 9500i, 9500xi or even the Bel STI. I believe all have a 30 day money back guarantee. So, try all three and send the other two back.

The 9500Ci is pricey but includes a laser jammer. Pity the jammer is not the best. I'd get one of the window mount detectors with a better jammer. However, the integrated display and controls of the jammer and detector is nice with the 9500Ci.
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      09-19-2008, 07:03 PM   #56
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Up front some disclosures:
1. I have owned and still own several V1s. I love them.
2. Valentine1 is a customer of mine
3. Lately I have been considering giving the 9500ci a whirl - a little pricey, but nicely integrated
4. I have a Laser Interceptor but I'm not sure it works well (not enough battle tests yet)
5. Escort is also a customer of mine and I can get a STEEP discount

I really like the V1. In the earlier years it was light years ahead of all other detectors in terms of sensitivity and falsing. In recent years, however, I believe some competitors have narrowed the gap considerably. I like the arrows for the sole reason that they are helpful when you CAN'T find the cop safely (Escort rebuttable to follow). Having a separate radar detector and jammer is like having a component home entertainment system. You can buy the best of each component and build a killer system but it's not as cheap or as convenient as an all-in-one. My perception is that the 9500ci - which does not use lasers in the jammer - is a very good all-in-one box - but perhaps not a killer system.

My Escort guys quip that the nice thing about the V1 arrows is that you know where the false is coming from. Cute... but also somewhat true for sure. Would I be willing to give up arrows for less falsing? Iím beginning to think so. They also claim that they have evaluated lasers but don't think they are reliable enough, i.e. they eventually burn up. They feel their "shifters" are the most reliable in the industry and I have no reason to doubt that. They also claim that they do a better job than anyone in keeping their jamming algorithms up to date and optimized. And they claim that in recent "shootouts" yet to be published the 9500ci did very well. Time will tell I guess.

I give Mike Valentine extra brownie points because he is a long time BMW fan and usually drives one to work. Escort, however, has the coolest company car in some ways...
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      09-20-2008, 03:29 AM   #57
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Thats pretty funny (pics).... and interesting assessment. I would like to go for the ci but pricing is a bit steep for someone who does not get out of the city much (nor gets a chance to go more that 15 over too often).

So, with a 5-6 hour trip to Napa next weekend I just ordered the 9500ix and am going to give it a whirl. Couple deciding points are the less falsing for us city folk, more current technology and really the 30 day no Q's asked trial/return policy and trade in program that ended up saving me some money and ultimately pricing the unit a little closer to the V1.

We'll see how it does shooting up the 5 next weekend. Thanks for the input by all....
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      10-08-2008, 02:16 PM   #58
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I don't want to poke at the bee's nest again, but I think some of you guys might find the following points helpful:

1. For you Dallas members, you'll be surprised to see how many red light cameras DFW already has (225). You may also be surprised to know that Dallas recently installed its first speed camera at the intersection of Preston and 635. I'm sure more will follow as municipalities attempt to figure out ways to raise more revenue and lower costs.

If you travel much, Austin and Houston also have their fair share of cameras. The following link is pretty cool for finding cameras in your particular area:

http://www.photoenforced.com/

2. For those who have or are considering the 9500i or 9500ix, spend the extra $50 and get the ix for the extra features. If you already have the 9500i and want to upgrade to the 9500ix, you can do so for about $90 (you'll have to send it in to Escort for a couple of weeks though).

3. A couple of V1 owners mentioned the fear that the 9500 could block a real alert along with false alerts. That won't happen with the auto learning feature. If the 9500 picks up the same signal at the same location 3 trips in a row, it will automatically block out only that frequency at that location. It will not block out other frequencies, so if a LEO is camped out there, the 9500 will give you a warning. The 9500 also allows you to manually block alerts at a given location. Some users, however, have reported that this manual blocking has gotten them ticketed because it has blocked out real threat alerts as well as the false signal. So for those of you with 9500s, you might want to be careful with manually blocking false alerts.
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      10-08-2008, 04:28 PM   #59
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Good to know about the red light cameras. But there aren't any Speed cameras in Dallas as of yet I don't believe. Anyone know if red light cameras work off motion sensors or radar when activated?

I'm still skeptical on the false alert filter. I've worked with computers enough to know to what degree of trust I'm comfortable with electronics having. Either way, the raw detection ability of either is great.
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      11-03-2008, 10:32 PM   #60
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you should of made a poll as well...
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      11-04-2008, 08:37 AM   #61
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I have a V1 and I love it. Its my first one. I thought the arrows were gimikie and didnt think that I needed them. however, all the hype and loyalist convinced me to try it. it works very well , even caught laser twice(somehow) and saved me.

With that said I am about to give it up and try the 9500xi, if I like it I will put it in my truck and then put the Ci in my car.
reasons:
1.V1 false alerts alot alot alot, as a matter a fact when I go to work in the morning 25 miles, it literally does not stop beeping, and that is on the highway.
one main false alert is the school buses around here , each school buss has 2-4 signals immitted and blows the V1 up. I hate it. I don't know if escort will be blown up by these or not.
2. price for the Ci is not bad. I have a convertible so the install will be much more assuring when I run into the store and leave the top down. even though I can see my car someone can easily grab the V1 off the window.

thats really only reasons.
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      11-04-2008, 04:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by buschy View Post
With that said I am about to give it up and try the 9500xi, if I like it I will put it in my truck and then put the Ci in my car.
reasons:
1.V1 false alerts alot alot alot, as a matter a fact when I go to work in the morning 25 miles, it literally does not stop beeping, and that is on the highway.
one main false alert is the school buses around here , each school buss has 2-4 signals immitted and blows the V1 up. I hate it. I don't know if escort will be blown up by these or not.
2. price for the Ci is not bad. I have a convertible so the install will be much more assuring when I run into the store and leave the top down. even though I can see my car someone can easily grab the V1 off the window.

thats really only reasons.
1. Find out if any police department use X-band in DFW (or wherever you travel) and if there are none disable X-band on the V1. This quiets the unit down considerably. Putting the V1 in "L" mode in the city also helps. I've done this and it works for me.

2. Price for the Ci is like $1600 plus installation. The V1 is $399. In cost there is no comparison. Get a V1 plus a Laser Interceptor and you're still paying less than the Ci and getting just as good a radar detector and a better laser jammer -- just a suggestion. Of course, custom installation is pretty cool too and may be worth it for you.

Good luck.
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      11-04-2008, 06:17 PM   #63
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I can get the ci for 1100. the xi for $400. you can only compare the v1 to the xi and they are the same price.
also I have the v1 in l and its not x-band that alerts, its k.
also no false alerts are in x band either, they are either ka or laser.
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      11-05-2008, 02:43 PM   #64
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Interesting that you don't get x-band falses. I get k falsing once in a great while. I can usually find the source of k-band bogies. If it's Ka or laser then it's always something to look out for. Half the time Ka alerts are cops coming the other way and are not a factor. No detector can clear that out, but the ramp up with the V1 is so good that I can tell when it's coming towards me, or stationary. Laser is almost always an LEO. Once in a while a rear third brake light on GM SUVs will trip the laser alert. But it's obvious when that happens.

All considered, with K-band off in Maryland, I rarely get false alerts. And when I do I can usually identify the source so this works good for me. Sorry to hear that your V1 is too chatty. The Ci is definitely a good choice if you don't mind spending the money. Only the laser jammer part could be better.
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      11-06-2008, 10:16 PM   #65
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I just bought the 9500 and thus far am very happy. It saved me this morning for sure. On my usual ride to work this morning on a road thats fairly str8, I was goin at a decent clip. I came up on traffic and couldn't see much in front of me. Thats when the escort went off on the Ka band. Signal was defintely instant on, I looked all around and didn't see anything. 10 seconds later at the light across from me, a state trooper arrives....

I had an older generation escort prior to this which false alerted WAY more.....very few false alerts with the 9500. The speed display feature which at first glance seems gimmicky, is actually fairly useful when trying to figure out what radar band and how fast one actually is travelling.

Overall, it seems the V1 and escort 9500 are pretty close in performance....the false alerts for me deciding factor.....i did ignore a lot of radar signals with my old detector, not so much with the new one.
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I just picked up my 9500ix and so far I'm impressed. I loved the warning of a redlight camera on my way home. I'm coming from a older Bel model I liked and saved me on numerous occasions. I'll save judgement for the sensitivity as, I haven't encountered to many bogeys just yet. But I like the features on the unit, and GPS with the Autolearn feature is groundbreaking. I haven't marked any of my own locations yet, but thats another plus. I updated the camera database, and the firmware last night, which was very simple. The only complaint I have is having to take my laptop out to the car, because I have no other way to power the unit. The lighting is cool, but I'd prefer the red of the Bel, to have a closer match to the BMW lighting. From the comparisons I've read, the sensitivity of this unit is equal to or greater than the V1 in everything but X band. The only place where I've seen X band still in use, is when I first get into New Jersey. I don't hate on the V1, but for me to take a look at Valentine, they are going to have to come out with a completely new model.....not just firmware updates, and GPS is a must.
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