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      09-09-2008, 02:05 PM   #1
Spec 1
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Lightbulb A place for Independent thoughts

How many of you are registered Independents?

I want to provide an area for those Independent thinkers to discuss what's going on this election year without the inane attacks that are happening in most other threads. This will be a good place to put your ideas out and how you see the revelations of candidates come through. This is not intended to be a place to simply bash one candidate or the other, and I would really appreciate anyone who decides to share here who is NOT an Independent to be respectful of the views discussed herein.





Having said that, I'll share. I'm an Independent because I can not seem to completely agree with either of the two large parties trying to run our country right now. I tend to see a large portion of the American public follow their party blindly and take any angle the media/campaigns give them and spout it off as fact or smear when they're completely ignorant of the real issue at hand. I try to study each and every issue from an unbiast perspective, taking each side into account before coming up with my own decision on what sounds correct. I can't follow blindly. Is that what makes others decide to be Independent as well?

I've been having issues with each side from the start, and now that the conventions have happened and we are in the actual race for Presidency, I have found myself surrounded by hypocrisy, lies, and smear campaigns. I don't want to point out any group in particular at the moment, but I have become absolutely terrified with where this country is headed. Unless other Americans decide they need to defy scrutiny from friends and look at this race frmo a 3rd person perspective, accurately, without biast, then we're going to end up with a dead nation. The USA will (if we havent already) lose all respect we have in this world and no longer be the leading power.

We need to listen to the rest of the world and where we stand. We need to look at the past and where it's brought us. We need to look at the BIG plan for the future and not dwell on small stuff. We need to look at where our country will be, not what our candidate has done. We need to fix this country.

My final question for Independents, since we seem to be the deciding factor here, what are we going to do? How are the candidates reaching to our needs?

Again, let's please discuss things in a mature manner. No bashing.
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      09-09-2008, 02:33 PM   #2
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I guess I can't say that I am independent because I am a Consitutionalist.

We are living in a dysfunctional nation. This nation no longer knows what it is. Until we can get our own house in order, it's hard to be concerned about what other nations think of us.

Ultimately, I would like to see the U.S. be clearly a leader by example and one that other nations approach seeking wisdom.
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      09-09-2008, 03:00 PM   #3
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"There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
–James Madison, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788.
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      09-10-2008, 02:35 AM   #4
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sounds like not many here are for independant thoughts?
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      09-10-2008, 09:04 AM   #5
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Everyone hates the independent swing voters, yet they want our vote.

I've been following some of the boards.

For the record, I voted: Bush Senior, Clinton, Gore, GW Bush

I vote for the candidate and their principles rather than against the policies (i.e. negative campaigning does not ring my bell)

As a middle of the road voter - I can tell you that both sides hate me, but want my vote.

Not sure who I'm going to vote for this year. As a registered democrat, I voted for Barack in the Primaries but he's starting to scare me lately with his tax/eonomic plan.

Have to admit that McCaine is experienced, decorated war veteran, and walks the talk (sending son to military/Iraq)
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      09-10-2008, 01:09 PM   #6
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MCS, I agree with you, especially about how negative campaigning really works against a candidate rather than for, with me. I read an article this morning that had many good points about that, which I'll include an exerpt of below. It certainly gives the same feeling I get when I hear some of the nonsense and underhandedness of this election. In no way do I feel Obama's ticket is entirely uninclusive, but certainly I share some similar feelings with the author.

This seems to be written in contect of Obama using the line "You can't put lipstick on a pig and expect it not ot be a pig" on Tuesday, which in context was speaking about the war in Iraq. Repulicans have picked it up and claimed it to be an attack against Sarah Palin and demand an apology, even though McCain has used the exact same words over the last few months when describing Clinton's health plan.

I don't agree with everything written here, but it certainly brings an aspect of the campaign that I've been feeling out into the open.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...s-integri.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sullivan
For me, this surreal moment - like the entire surrealism of the past ten days - is not really about Sarah Palin or Barack Obama or pigs or fish or lipstick. It's about John McCain. The one thing I always thought I knew about him is that he is a decent and honest person. When he knows, as every sane person must, that Obama did not in any conceivable sense mean that Sarah Palin is a pig, what did he do? Did he come out and say so and end this charade? Or did he acquiesce in and thereby enable the mindless Rovianism that is now the core feature of his campaign?

So far, he has let us all down. My guess is he will continue to do so. And that decision, for my part, ends whatever respect I once had for him. On core moral issues, where this man knew what the right thing was, and had to pick between good and evil, he chose evil. When he knew that George W. Bush's war in Iraq was a fiasco and catastrophe, and before Donald Rumsfeld quit, McCain endorsed George W. Bush against his fellow Vietnam vet, John Kerry in 2004.... He put party first and his own career first ahead of what he knew was best for the country.

And when the Senate and House voted overwhelmingly to condemn and end the torture regime of Bush and Cheney in 2006, McCain again had a clear choice between good and evil, and chose evil.

He capitulated and enshrined torture as the policy of the United States, by allowing the CIA to use techniques as bad as and worse than the torture inflicted on him in Vietnam. He gave the war criminals in the White House retroactive immunity against the prosecution they so richly deserve. The enormity of this moral betrayal, this betrayal of his country's honor, has yet to sink in. But for my part, it now makes much more sense. He is not the man I thought he was.

And when he had the chance to engage in a real and substantive debate against [Obama] in a fall campaign where vital issues are at stake, what did McCain do? He began his general campaign with a series of grotesque, trivial and absurd MTV-style attacks on Obama's virtues and implied disgusting things about his opponent's patriotism.

And then, because he could see he was going to lose, ten days ago, he threw caution to the wind and with no vetting whatsoever, picked a woman who, by her decision to endure her own eight-month pregnancy of a Down Syndrome child in public, that was going to reignite the culture war as a last stand against Obama. That's all that is happening right now: a massive bump in the enthusiasm of the Christianist base.
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      09-10-2008, 01:13 PM   #7
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Independent, or non-partisan? I was registered Ind for a while, thinking that meant I was an independent thinker. Wrong! So now I'm NP. I got to choose which ticket to vote in the primaries. That was tough.
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      09-10-2008, 01:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Independent, or non-partisan? I was registered Ind for a while, thinking that meant I was an independent thinker. Wrong! So now I'm NP. I got to choose which ticket to vote in the primaries. That was tough.
I have never registered Independent (though I voted for an Independent in 1980). What do you mean it was wrong about Independent meaning independent thinker?
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      09-10-2008, 01:45 PM   #9
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If you register as Independent, you get the Independent party ballot. It is different than being an independent thinker, or not wanting party affiliation.
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      09-10-2008, 07:09 PM   #10
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I thought that Lou Dobbs was a Democrat party advocate on the news. But at the Independent Convention which is in session, I just heard this:

Fred Flannigan (WKRS In Waukegan):
"It's incredible on a local basis. We literally, in Cook county, have a sanctuary county in Cook county. We have a defacto sanctuary state in the state of Illinois. And noone has addressed this issue.

"The mainstream media won't touch this issue. We watched eight days of political conventions. Eight days. Did you hear this issue mentioned one time in those eight days? A single time?"

Lou Dobbs:
"That's why we're here. One of the reasons we're focusing on this issue.and I happen to agree with you. Until people understand that these two political parties are simply opposite wings of the same bird we're in a lot of trouble in this country because these two parties are selling out to the highest bidder."
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      09-11-2008, 03:27 PM   #11
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Now with official word from the Republican campaign that "this race will not be about political issues", I have to ask...

WHY?

Why isn't anybody talking about issues instead of bullshit? Anyone?
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