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      09-09-2008, 12:46 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by FranklinDelanoBluth View Post
First we have accusations of naivety on my part and then 'even you should be able to figure that out?' You sound like a poorly educated teenager. Also, for the record, superchargers are included in the forced induction category.

"Translation: we want to keep the profits for ourselves," is extremely negative and quite frankly so redundant and stupid I cannot believe I'm writing this message as it clearly isn't worth getting into any sort of a discussion with you. The M3 may have a larger tuning market but that does not necessarily correlate into quality aftermarket products. That is a completely off topic discussion that has no place in this thread. Later down the line feel free to write about the tuning kits you purchase from one of the companies you've mentioned, unfortunately I haven't heard of them.
That is cute, now you are nitpicking. Would forced induction encompass turbos and nitrous? I suppose those would be separate from a supercharger, and hence I wrote forced induction to cover them instead of spelling each one out separately for you. If that is how you want to play, game on.

It is not stupid and redundant at all, it is a smart business move. Since when is protecting ones assets stupid? It is frustrating for the true enthusiasts on here who would like to know all the details.

What is clear is that you have no understanding of the aftermarket or development history. A crash course in the E46 M3 is in order before you start talking about the E92 and stroker development.

You contradict yourself, when does production volume equate to quality in the BMW aftermarket? At least you are able to admit the M3 has the larger aftermarket. The M5 has had its share of failed aftermarket ventures even with a production volume that could be counted on one hand (ever heard of RMS?).

I am not surprised you have not heard of any of those companies, you don't know what you are talking about and you clearly do not have the knowledge necessary to continue a discussion on the aftermarket and future development.
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      09-09-2008, 12:49 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by RDSport View Post
There is a parameter (the only one you haven't mentioned) which is proprietary to Mahle, and that is the coating of the S85/S65 piston. Without that, close but no cigar!
Isn't it an iron coating?
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      09-09-2008, 12:51 AM   #69
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I don't wish to contradict you, but the reality at Racing Dynamics S.p.A./RDSport is that HC Motors are sold as a loss-leader. We use the aura of the cars that we outfit with our motors to drive the business for our parts. I have rarely seen anyone coming into the market with an identical product to ours at a lesser cost. I would be willing to bet that we give you more components per dollar spent than any other tuner, and this ratio would skew even more in our favor if you calculated our actual cost (from purchasing all European components in Euro) vs. the cost of our competitors.

We welcome any and all competition, providing we all agree to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Ultimately, it all comes down to bang-for-the-buck, and this is a parameter that we always consider at RDSport.
Well, for now it seems the only announced competition is Dinan. They want 40k for their V10, the V8 should fall somewhere between 30-40k. I am going to guess you are somewhere in this range as well? If so, I don't see Dinan selling this product at a loss, they will be making plenty considering the majority of parts are carried over from the V10 stroker.
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      09-09-2008, 01:05 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
It is not stupid and redundant at all, it is a smart business move. Since when is protecting ones assets stupid? It is frustrating for the true enthusiasts on here who would like to know all the details.

You contradict yourself, when does production volume equate to quality in the BMW aftermarket? At least you are able to admit the M3 has the larger aftermarket. The M5 has had its share of failed aftermarket ventures even with a production volume that could be counted on one hand (ever heard of RMS?).
Once again I can't help but think you're extremely young. Your statement regarding profits and RD wanting to "keep them for themselves" was so obvious that there was no need to write it with a cynical tone. Of course profits are good for business, I hope you learned that in school today. Secondly your point about enthusiasts wanting to know details is fair but unobtainable given a competitive business environment. Is it frustrating for Coke drinkers that they don't know how to formulate the drink in their garage?
Furthermore, I did not contradict myself. Try reading my post again and using a dictionary for words you don't understand. I said that a large product market does NOT necessarily translate into quality aftermarket products.
Now with all due respect to the OP, please stop posting about this meaningless garbage and PM me if you wish to discuss anything. I've had enough with taking this thread off topic.
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      09-09-2008, 01:32 AM   #71
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Some more pictures, better ones are coming very soon.

What the 6MT transmission case looks like:


Close up of the clutch:


Car as it is now, waiting for bodywork to get done:




One body piece that is done, carbon fibre roof spoiler. There is also a matching trunk spoiler but I can't find a picture.



Once again I'd like to thank everyone for the nice comments. However for a few people out there please try and keep things on topic. As I mentioned in the first post I didn't want this to turn into some sort of tuning war, and I hate reading through tons of off-topic posts. Also, as I mentioned earlier I will not be discussing prices on the forum. Someone at RDSport has been kind enough to take the time to respond to some technical questions, if they it's important and relevant I'm sure questions will be answered in due time.
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      09-09-2008, 01:40 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranklinDelanoBluth View Post
Once again I can't help but think you're extremely young. Your statement regarding profits and RD wanting to "keep them for themselves" was so obvious that there was no need to write it with a cynical tone. Of course profits are good for business, I hope you learned that in school today. Secondly your point about enthusiasts wanting to know details is fair but unobtainable given a competitive business environment. Is it frustrating for Coke drinkers that they don't know how to formulate the drink in their garage?
Furthermore, I did not contradict myself. Try reading my post again and using a dictionary for words you don't understand. I said that a large product market does NOT necessarily translate into quality aftermarket products.
Now with all due respect to the OP, please stop posting about this meaningless garbage and PM me if you wish to discuss anything. I've had enough with taking this thread off topic.
You did say a large product market does not necessarily translate into quality aftermarket products. Your manner implied a smaller one does. There are examples of large or small volume products having flaws, pointless. I can't help but think you are dense.

Once you make a coherent statement regarding the aftermarket I will read your posts again. There is no dictionary in the world that is going to make sense of it. You reiterate what I said, enthusiasts wanting to know is fair but considering the competitive environment it is not in their best interest to share. How you want to interpret that is up to you, I boiled it down to $. Sounds like the exact same thing but in different words... interesting.

As far as your Coke example, if you really want to be technical, Coke does provide the ingredients and the mixes if you have seen Coke orders come in for stock at fast food places or restaurants. There are several competitors offering basically the same thing in a different package at a different price. Some have the brand name, some don't. Kind of a self-defeating point you raise, not that I am surprised considering the quality of your posts.

I could care less about how you feel about the thread. Take care
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      09-09-2008, 02:11 AM   #73
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Sticky, you may not care about how FDB feels about the thread, but I've asked a number of times to be on topic so please respect that, and he did offer to turn to PM's instead of continuing. To be honest, I read the exchange between the two of you and didn't want to comment directly, and don't take this the wrong way but I would really appreciate it if you limited your postings on this thread.
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      09-09-2008, 02:17 AM   #74
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PencilGeek, Mahle makes great forged pistons too
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      09-09-2008, 02:32 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd54 View Post
Sticky, you may not care about how FDB feels about the thread, but I've asked a number of times to be on topic so please respect that, and he did offer to turn to PM's instead of continuing. To be honest, I read the exchange between the two of you and didn't want to comment directly, and don't take this the wrong way but I would really appreciate it if you limited your postings on this thread.
I understand your point, I would like for the thread to stay on topic as well.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am going to post as I see fit

With regards to Mahle, RD mentioned just the piston coating. The stock pistons have an iron coating of some sort, but when going with aftermarket pistons is this coating still necessary or is it more of a function of retaining stock paramaters?
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      09-09-2008, 06:32 AM   #76
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Heh, looks like my post sparked quite the discussion.

I just want to say thank you to RDSport for replying to my post. I can appreciate the desire to keep you secrets closely guarded even if they may possibly be exposed by your competitors in the future. Cheers.
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      09-09-2008, 02:35 PM   #77
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Looking great ND54, very nice work! Can't wait to see the finished product and feedback? When do you expect it will be complete?
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      09-09-2008, 03:41 PM   #78
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This is gonna be sweet when its done!! I'm sure there is quite a bit of dyno-tuning time needed to optimize the larger engine.....but 520hp seems reasonable....since that makes 113hp/L & the Dinan V10 is 115hp/L vs 103.5hp/L for the stock 4.0L

Strokers for German V8's ARE NOT CHEAP....I have friends in the 928 club that enlarged their 5.0L V8 to 6.4-6.5L and make silly HP...with the highest being 675hp in a very streetable engine.....but it was well over $30k
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      09-09-2008, 03:51 PM   #79
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This is gonna be sweet when its done!! I'm sure there is quite a bit of dyno-tuning time needed to optimize the larger engine.....but 520hp seems reasonable....since that makes 113hp/L & the Dinan V10 is 115hp/L vs 103.5hp/L for the stock 4.0L

Strokers for German V8's ARE NOT CHEAP....I have friends in the 928 club that enlarged their 5.0L V8 to 6.4-6.5L and make silly HP...with the highest being 675hp in a very streetable engine.....but it was well over $30k
Yep, lots of dyno-tuning as it appears to be a first!! I'd say well over $30.
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      09-10-2008, 08:29 AM   #80
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Like others here I commend you for your courage (and your willingness to spend $) and I look forward to your continued posts on the progress of your rebuild. I'm sure we'll all benefit from your experience. Good luck!
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      09-10-2008, 10:47 AM   #81
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+1!! My sincer congratulations!
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      09-10-2008, 01:57 PM   #82
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More pictures of the motor:












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      09-10-2008, 02:48 PM   #83
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Man, no wonder this thing costs a fortune.
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      09-10-2008, 04:58 PM   #84
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Those are fantastic pics. Thanks for keeping us posted. How long will the entire job take?
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      09-10-2008, 05:46 PM   #85
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i love this thread...only wish it was my car...great pics and read
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      09-10-2008, 05:53 PM   #86
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Very very cool to see some of the design details up close! BMW's done some very interesting stuff on the new M engines- the way the main bearing girdle works is especially cool to me.
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      09-12-2008, 01:53 AM   #87
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Can't wait to see everything come back together
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      09-12-2008, 09:15 AM   #88
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Can't wait to see everything come back together
+1, are there any plans for video showing us how this thing performs?
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