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      09-05-2008, 02:46 PM   #1
TMNT
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Libertarian?

Does anyone on this board consider themselves a libertarian or follow this party much?

I reviewed their website today out of curiousity and I must say that I like a lot of the ideas and thinking. Not all of them, but many of them. If anyone hear would like to answer some of my questions or clarify their platform please do.

Quote:
1. We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives. The mission of the FDA is to protect us from unsafe medicines. In fact, the FDA has driven up healthcare costs and deprived millions of Americans of much-needed treatments. For example, during a 10-year delay in approving Propanolol Propranolol (a heart medication for treating angina and hypertension), approximately 100,000 people died who could have been treated with this lifesaving drug. Bureaucratic roadblocks kill sick Americans.]
So what will you create to protect us from unsafe medicines? More agile, free-market alternatives doesn't answer anything. How do you do that while still being effective? Free market can't regulate free market. Unless you can explain how...

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We should repeal all government policies that increase health costs and decrease the availability of medical services. For example, every state has laws that mandate coverage of specific disabilities and diseases. These laws reduce consumer choice and increase the cost of health insurance. By making insurance more expensive, mandated benefits increase the number of uninsured American workers.
What is currently mandated and why is the government mandating it? Where healthcare companies denying coverage before? Maybe that's why a mandate was created in the first place? What's to say they won't do it again? I believe in giving businesses some space, but too much space will backfire....look at the morgage industry for example.

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Almost everyone agrees that a job is better than any welfare program. Yet for years this country has pursued tax and regulatory policies that seem perversely designed to discourage economic growth and reduce entrepreneurial opportunities. Someone starting a business today needs a battery of lawyers just to comply with the myriad of government regulations from a virtual alphabet soup of government agencies: OSHA, EPA, FTC, CPSC, etc. Zoning and occupational licensing laws are particularly damaging to the type of small businesses that may help people work their way out of poverty. In addition, government regulations such as minimum wage laws and mandated benefits drive up the cost of employing additional workers. We call for the repeal of government regulations and taxes that are steadily cutting the bottom rungs off the economic ladder.
So how does this focus on the areas that truely need help aka the inner cities? Shouldn't there be incentives...maybe more tax cuts for those businesses who bring opportunities to the inner city?

Or education...
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Wealthy and middle class parents are able to send their children to private schools, or at least move to a district with better public schools. Poor families are trapped -- forced to send their children to a public school system that fails to educate. It is time to break up the public education monopoly and give all parents the right to decide what school their children will attend.
Please explain how you plan on doing this? This just doesn't make any sense and sounds flawed. Lets say 6 high schools are really good and 13 others are complete shit...who gets to choose which students get to go to the best 6? What happens to the rest? Do they still get stuck with the shitty ones?...there must be a real plan to make this effective...is there?

Thanks in advance for your clarifications.
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      09-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #2
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IMHO the answers to your questions are why we have not seen an advance in the LP. There are groups in my state, but it's very "utopian" ideology.

I don't think everybody is capable of that level of self government or it would happen. There are to many human traits that don't allow this. Greed, racism, social status, and plain old ignorance are why there is government in the first place. Some government mechanisms protect the less knowledgeable, some don't.

I couldn't imagine having to shop for my health care regulator or school board. I have a hard enough time finding a good vitamin to take (which is unregulated of course).

Also, making education, and regulation in general private will most certainly open them up to extreme corruption. Who keeps them honest?

Then again who knows... the current system isn't really working either.
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      09-05-2008, 03:54 PM   #3
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I haven't studied anything about the Libertarians, but what I have heard of them makes me think of them as too close to anarchy. Moving our present government from it's current status closer to anarchy would be good. But it seems that Libertarians go too far. Certainly you have seen my sig line. The Constitution Party advocates a great deal of change that would also take us closer to anarchy than the tyranny we live with today. But it seeks balance and Constitutional government as a Representative Republic. We see the Democrat and Republican establishment as very similar to each another, and far too close to tyrannical government. It is ruler's law rather than people's law at work today.
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      09-05-2008, 05:01 PM   #4
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Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:

1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government is reserved for the state and local jurisdictions;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.
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      09-05-2008, 05:37 PM   #5
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yep...i think that most americans are libertarian if you asked them which party 's principles they agreed with the most...too bad we are stuck with this crappy 2 party systems...and the biased media tries to label them as kooks...
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      09-05-2008, 06:28 PM   #6
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I learned quite a bit about the party earlier in the year when Ron Paul was my leading choice for the next President. The Libertarian party is fantastic but highly idealist. As somebody else mentioned I think a lot of us agree with many of their positions, but unfortunately not many Americans would be able to live within society's norm.

I do enjoy everything they preach about reducing government and providing more personal choice. I hope they at least gain ground over the next number of years. This two party system is bunk.
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      09-05-2008, 07:39 PM   #7
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yes- I like most of thier principals.
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      09-05-2008, 09:16 PM   #8
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I don't think I can QUITE consider myself a libertarian, but I'm darn close. They take things a bit too far sometimes.

Though I might not agree with Scotty all that often, I think the Constitution party isn't a bad one to look into, even if I don't agree with them on everything.

I'll be voting Barr, Ron Paul, or Baldwin in November.

As for the questions of the OP, one CRITICAL thing that you have to keep in mind is State's Rights. Libertarians generally want wellfare programs to be handled on a state-by-state basis. While they are certainly for a weak federal government, the libertarian party is also big on State's Rights, allowing each state to take their own approach.
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      09-05-2008, 09:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
I don't think I can QUITE consider myself a libertarian, but I'm darn close. They take things a bit too far sometimes.

Though I might not agree with Scotty all that often, I think the Constitution party isn't a bad one to look into, even if I don't agree with them on everything.

I'll be voting Barr, Ron Paul, or Baldwin in November.

As for the questions of the OP, one CRITICAL thing that you have to keep in mind is State's Rights. Libertarians generally want wellfare programs to be handled on a state-by-state basis. While they are certainly for a weak federal government, the libertarian party is also big on State's Rights, allowing each state to take their own approach.
I have never been 100% in agreement with anyone when discussing multiple topics. But I agree with what you said here. I don't agree with the Constitution Party on everything either. And some things that I think, "no way" when I first look at it comes to make good sense as more gaps are filled in. No third party could change America overnight. It took the Democrats and the Republicans more than a century to get us into our present mess. It will take time to get us out of it even once we start winning. Today, it seems to be a goal that is worth effort. At least we don't have to take up arms.
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      09-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
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Less government control
less government interference.
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      09-08-2008, 03:08 PM   #11
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I would like to think of myself as a libertarian but, I can't waste my vote on Ron Paul so thats why I'm for McCain.
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      09-08-2008, 03:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
I would like to think of myself as a libertarian but, I can't waste my vote on Ron Paul so thats why I'm for McCain.
Bob Barr is the Libertarian candidate. Ron Paul is Republican and no longer running for President.
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      09-08-2008, 10:17 PM   #13
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less taxes.
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      09-10-2008, 08:23 PM   #14
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I am a registered Libertarian. And to answer the obvious question, when an election is close I pick one of the two major candidates. But when it is not I send a message. And I do know that the message is heard, at least in the Republican leadership.

IMO you can divide the party into two parts, those who are most focused on the social aspects and those focused on the market/governmental aspects. Social libertarians want the government kept a long distance from people’s personal lives, the Jefferson view about that which neither breaks my bones nor picks my pocket being none of the government’s business neatly sums up their position. These are the people who bristle at the concept of “victimless crime”.

Other libertarians are concerned with free markets and general government structure -- the freer and smaller the better. However it is important to realize that “free” does not mean “chaotic”, a true Libertarian will see good contract law as an important government function. Indeed a critical one. A free market must be fair and transparent.

I would encourage anyone at all interested to do two things. Google the Libertarian Party and spend some time on their well structured web site. The second is to google Reason Magazine, a Libertarian and very well respected and well written magazine that is more widely read within the beltway and academia than you might think.

Most importantly it is not a party of hate. By its very nature its members want to be free and understand that tolerating others is part of that process. This is why it has become a refuge for people like me, former Republicans who admire Eisenhower and Goldwater, despise hate mongering religious fanatics and are inclined to at least try the free market solution before rolling out the Grand Governmental Program.

And yes, the Libertarians are burdened with their nut jobs. But then so are the two major parties.
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      09-10-2008, 10:05 PM   #15
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Thanks for your input, I will take a look at your recommendations
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      09-11-2008, 08:08 AM   #16
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Another great libertarian (small "l" - not affiliated with the party) is the CATO Institute.
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