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      09-05-2008, 03:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solefald View Post
What did you think about it?

I thought it was pretty damn low to use a tragedy of that magnitude to promote your own agenda.

Apparently it is supposed to be a "tribute"....



Oh, and McCain speech last night was the biggest waste of my time. EVER.
It sounded like he was reading a good-night story to his grandchildren.

Yawn... it's getting old..
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      09-05-2008, 03:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
I don't have an issue mentioning 9/11 and talking about why its still relevant for their "cause"...but showing 5 mins of video footage of the event is a little much.

If the Democrats did the same thing, would you come on here and say that?

Would any of you be against it..

No.
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      09-05-2008, 03:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
If the Democrats did the same thing, would you come on here and say that?

Would any of you be against it..

No.
That's the thing..democrats aren't fearmongers. We understand what happened during 9/11...we don't need to consistently "remind" people what occured with distrubing video footage.
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      09-05-2008, 04:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
I don't have an issue mentioning 9/11 and talking about why its still relevant for their "cause"...but showing 5 mins of video footage of the event is a little much.
What happened 9/11 was a horrific American tragedy. To have that tradgedy constantly exploited by the Republicans and the current administration for political advantage, every chance they get is nothing short of criminal. George Bush and Dick Cheney used 9/11 to increase the power of the presidency AND the vice presidency, and to undermine and strip away constitutional freedoms they saw as hinderances to their power grab, calling anyone who questioned them unpatriotic.

The RNC is calling this a tribute? See it for what it is. Yet another blatant attempt to use a tragic memory for Americans to envoke fear and insecurity in the electorate and to make you feel unsafe. The simple reason is because polling has shown that when you feel scared and unsafe the republicans benefit. This is Republican politics 101.

Vote for McCain and get more of the same.

He will follow Osama Bin Laden to the gates of hell. What's he gonna do when he gets there? He can't even raise his arms above his head! I guess he'll sick that pitbull with lipstick on him.

I agree completely with Keith Olberman's commentary. If you don't want to watch the "tribute" again you can speed up to 2:50 to skip it and go directly to Keith.

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      09-05-2008, 04:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Quite a bit. 9/11 changed what was considered an acceptable risk and what was not.

The purpose of the military action taken by the US after 9/11 was not to punish those who perpetrated the attacks but to do whatever was possible to make sure that nothing like those attacks happened again.

9/11 altered the paradigm on terrorism. Before 9/11, terrorist attacks were generally focused more on making a statement rather than creating mass casualties. This preconception was shattered by the attacks that realistically could have killed ten times those they actually did. This new understanding made the threat of a lawless regime with a history of defying the international community, supporting international terrorists, and using WMD no longer one we could accept.
Iraq was a "low-hanging fruit" that the US wanted to grab in the utopian hope to stabilize the Middle East. But, they got chaos instead of stability. That chaos might be subsiding now, but at the cost of thousands killed.

Ganeil: Saddam Hussein's oppressive regime killed thousands of its own people (maybe ... and 25 years ago). In contrast, our sister country of Georgia just wanted to punish separatists, who were absolutely not like Kurds (oh wait, the Kurds were separatists too). Umm ... Here! Georgia is officially a democracy, but Iraq was a totalitarian state! Bingo! Democratic states can kill their own people, but totalitarian cannot. And where is the fucking evidence??? From an independent source! (like Fox news)
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      09-05-2008, 04:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT View Post
That's the thing..democrats aren't fearmongers. We understand what happened during 9/11...we don't need to consistently "remind" people what occured with distrubing video footage.
Some of the things we should be reminded of might include what happened to the branch Davidians, and at Ruby Ridge. This was irresponsible reaction from the U.S. Government acting against nutty groups. They did not need to kill.

Perhaps we should be reminded of
  • the Oklahoma City bombing
  • 9/11
  • the American holocaust that is taking place even today
  • the reasons for the Declaration of Independence
  • the stock market crash of 1929 and the depression that followed
  • the landing of man on the moon
  • hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, pestilence
  • the liberty and freedom Americans once envisioned and enjoyed
  • the Protestant Reformation
and so much more great, wrong, and inevitable.
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      09-05-2008, 04:14 PM   #29
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Yep, this is what they should have been talking about at the RNC: landing on the moon. I suspect that the moon has not seen democracy yet.
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      09-05-2008, 04:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
George Bush and Dick Cheney used 9/11 to increase the power of the presidency AND the vice presidency, and to undermine and strip away constitutional freedoms they saw as hinderances to their power grab, calling anyone who questioned them unpatriotic.
There was a time where it may have been best to have the Patriot Act. But that time has passed. We must regain our freedoms and constitutional rights soon, or they will be lost for as long as this government exists. Think of the Federal Income Tax. This was supposed to be temporary to fund the war. We still have it 100 years later. Now, it is only the "kook fringe" that want to do away with it.
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      09-05-2008, 04:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
What happened 9/11 was a horrific American tragedy. To have that tradgedy constantly exploited by the Republicans and the current administration, every chance they get is nothing short of criminal. George Bush and Dick Cheney used 9/11 to increase the power of the presidency AND the vice presidency, and to undermine and strip away constitutional freedoms they saw as hinderances to their power grab, calling anyone who questioned them unpatriotic.

The RNC is calling this a tribute? See it for what it is. Yet another blatant attempt to use a tragic memory for Americans to envoke fear and insecurity in the electorate and to make you feel unsafe. The simple reason is because polling has shown that when you feel scared and unsafe the republicans benefit.

Vote for McCain and get more of the same.


I agree completely with Keith Olberman's commentary. If you don't want to watch the "tribute" again you can speed up to 2:50 to skip it and go directly to Keith.
9/11 was not a tragedy in the way that an earthquake or tornado is. It was an attack by those who follow an ideology that that teaches them that the way to heaven is by killing Americans. We needed to respond to that attack. That is something the vast majority of Americans understood on 9/12 but that a large portion of the Democratic party has forgotten.

The current administration has claimed no authority that previous wartime administrations have not had. In what way has the President increased his power? When have they called anyone unpatriotic?

I wonder if you would have felt the same way when FDR evoked Pearl Harbor during his reelection campaign or if you would have protested as fear mongering LBJ's commercial that linked Goldwater to nuclear war.

We were attacked and national security is a perfectly legitimate issue in selecting a president. Because the Democrat Party is asking us to trust a completely unprepared and ill-qualified man to serve as commander in chief of a nation at war makes this even more important an issue.
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      09-05-2008, 04:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Iraq was a "low-hanging fruit" that the US wanted to grab in the utopian hope to stabilize the Middle East. But, they got chaos instead of stability. That chaos might be subsiding now, but at the cost of thousands killed.

Ganeil: Saddam Hussein's oppressive regime killed thousands of its own people (maybe ... and 25 years ago). In contrast, our sister country of Georgia just wanted to punish separatists, who were absolutely not like Kurds (oh wait, the Kurds were separatists too). Umm ... Here! Georgia is officially a democracy, but Iraq was a totalitarian state! Bingo! Democratic states can kill their own people, but totalitarian cannot. And where is the fucking evidence??? From an independent source! (like Fox news)
Maybe? Saddam's atrocities are not in dispute and they continued until the invasion. I have seen the mass graves and spoken to the victims of his torture. In contrast there is quite a bit of dispute as to whether Georgia was responsible for anything even remotely similar.
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      09-05-2008, 04:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Because the Democrat Party is asking us to trust a completely unprepared and ill-qualified man to serve as commander in chief of a nation at war makes this even more important an issue.

It's better to trust an old man and a 42 y.o. cheerleader. Was B.Clinton prepared to be a commander-in-chief? Does the president need military experience? Having a hot-headed retired veteran in the office can be dangerous in the world sitting on nuclear weapons ...
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      09-05-2008, 04:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Maybe? Saddam's atrocities are not in dispute and they continued until the invasion. I have seen the mass graves and spoken to the victims of his torture. In contrast there is quite a bit of dispute as to whether Georgia was responsible for anything even remotely similar.
Were the Iraqi Kurds killed by Saddam separatists?
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      09-05-2008, 04:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ATG View Post
It's better to trust an old man and a 42 y.o. cheerleader. Was B.Clinton prepared to be a commander-in-chief? Does the president need military experience? Having a hot-headed retired veteran in the office can be dangerous in the world sitting on nuclear weapons ...
Bill Clinton was more prepared than Obama. No, a president does not need military experience but it is a plus.

Having a novice with no appreciation for dangerous world we live in where our enemies may be sitting on nuclear weapons is even more dangerous.
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      09-05-2008, 04:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Were the Iraqi Kurds killed by Saddam separatists?
Who are/were Saddam separatists?
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      09-05-2008, 04:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solefald View Post
Exactly. It's a war for Iraq's oil, under buzzwords of War on Terror and Building Democracy.
Please elaborate.
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      09-05-2008, 04:58 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
What's he gonna do when he gets there? He can't even raise his arms above his head! I guess he'll sick that pitbull with lipstick on him.
Not cool, dude...
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      09-05-2008, 04:59 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Who are/were Saddam separatists?
Objection noted. I'll rephrase the question:

Were the Kurds, whom Saddam had allegedly killed, separatists?
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      09-05-2008, 05:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Bill Clinton was more prepared than Obama. No, a president does not need military experience but it is a plus.

Having a novice with no appreciation for dangerous world we live in where our enemies may be sitting on nuclear weapons is even more dangerous.

In what way was B. Clinton more prepared than Obama to be a commander-in-chief? By avoiding the draft?
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      09-05-2008, 05:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Bill Clinton was more prepared than Obama. No, a president does not need military experience but it is a plus.

Having a novice with no appreciation for dangerous world we live in where our enemies may be sitting on nuclear weapons is even more dangerous.
Damn. He used "dangerous" twice in the same sentence!!!
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      09-05-2008, 05:14 PM   #42
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

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      09-05-2008, 05:30 PM   #43
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Oh, sweet! Another EPIC RNC FAILURE!

Got to love the staged military funeral and fake soldiers!



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4415886.shtml

Quote:
But CBS News found that the footage of the ‘funeral’ and soldiers is what is called ‘stock’ footage. The soldiers were actors and the funeral scene was from a one-day film shoot, produced in June. No real soldiers were used during production.

The footage, sold by stock-film house Getty Images was produced by a commercial filmmaker in Chicago. Both Getty and the production company, Mr. Big Films, confirmed that the footage was shot on spec and sold to the Republican National Committee.
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      09-05-2008, 06:00 PM   #44
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Sweet! Next thing we know is that Sarah Palin is a rubber-woman.
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