BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Evolve Automotive
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-06-2008, 07:35 PM   #45
JetBlack5OC
Major
 
Drives: E60&E92
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: west

Posts: 1,084
iTrader: (0)

I got an idea.

Lets see a M3 DCT owner put his money were his mouth is.

Race for pink slips.

C63 vs. M3 DCT, stock vs. stock. Best 3 out of 5 races.
JetBlack5OC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2008, 07:37 PM   #46
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
I got an idea.

Lets see a M3 DCT owner put his money were his mouth is.

Race for pink slips.

C63 vs. M3 DCT, stock vs. stock. Best 3 out of 5 races.

I am not sure where the C63 insecurity is coming from? Who is saying the M3 is faster?

Also, is your bet for a track with turns ?
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2008, 09:01 PM   #47
JetBlack5OC
Major
 
Drives: E60&E92
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: west

Posts: 1,084
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I am not sure where the C63 insecurity is coming from? Who is saying the M3 is faster?
Insecurity? Wouldn't I have to own one to be insecure. I am a BMW guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Also, is your bet for a track with turns ?
Nope, exactly how Gustav is running these cars.

Just laying out the guanlet.
JetBlack5OC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2008, 09:12 PM   #48
Sticky
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu

Posts: 2,244
iTrader: (0)

If a C63 wants to meet up I am game.
Sticky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2008, 09:32 PM   #49
JetBlack5OC
Major
 
Drives: E60&E92
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: west

Posts: 1,084
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
If a C63 wants to meet up I am game.
Where is Hans? Someone PM him, he is located in Huntington Beach.

I am sure you can find someone on the other MB forums. It should not be hard at all. If you are serious I will post on their forums for a competitor.

Did you ever run against your friends M5?
JetBlack5OC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2008, 10:08 PM   #50
Sticky
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu

Posts: 2,244
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
Where is Hans? Someone PM him, he is located in Huntington Beach.

I am sure you can find someone on the other MB forums. It should not be hard at all. If you are serious I will post on their forums for a competitor.

Did you ever run against your friends M5?
Of course I am game, I just want to make sure it is a stock car I am running. I am a member of MBWorld, there is a Benz in the garage I don't want to go looking for a race but whatever, if someone would like to run that is fine.

Yes, I ran him, but it wasn't fair, I did not even bother to post. He has 20's and once again there were passengers so I beat him soundly, from the freeway roll and especially from a stop.

I have another friend who is still on stock wheels but I think he has carbon filters removed. Either way, it needs to be a one vs. one and when I run him it will be the best representation.
Sticky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 01:15 AM   #51
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Sticky comments on wanting to know the other car is stock basically proves to me how flawed T Bone's insistence of using M5Board video events as proof positive. All their videos prove is that the two cars in question in eah race that there is a winner and that is it, not whether they are stock or anything.

Gustav, even pointed out as much in his on comments.

The facts are that all of the C63 is almost every controlled tested (magazine) the C63 is quicker, though as of yet no M-DCT vs C63 has been conducted to the best of my knowledge. The point is that up to the 150mph mark the C63 is over 2 seconds quicker and in the only test I know of where the M3 MT and DCT have been tested together the manual was slower to the 120mph mark but regained the advantage after this point and was quicker to the 150mph mark.

Likewise the controlled tests of the RS4 show that though it IS slower than the M3, the gap is in the tenths of a second to the 150mph mark and not in the seconds as the M5Board events videos show. If you were to believe them as gospel then Quattro does saps huge amounts of power but I know from experience that when two pretty equally power cars meet (awd vs rwd) the difference is still very much so driver dependent.

Maybe T Bone needs to see pass his BWM bias and live in the real world.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 01:26 AM   #52
Dascamel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dascamel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Posts: 1,662
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
I got an idea.

Lets see a M3 DCT owner put his money were his mouth is.

Race for pink slips.

C63 vs. M3 DCT, stock vs. stock. Best 3 out of 5 races.
High my name is Vin, is your name Paul?
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options
2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
Dascamel is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 01:30 AM   #53
adamr
Major
 
adamr's Avatar
 
Drives: 997 GT3 RS
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Johannesburg

Posts: 1,032
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
High my name is Vin, is your name Paul?
lol ...

honestly though i think just race guys ... no pink slips ... was suppose to get a C63 also, and would love to see how the dct fairs against it ...
__________________


2007 Porsche 997 GT3 RS
|PCM with NAV and GSM|Roll Cage|PCCB|Xenons|Sports Chrono Plus|PASM|Leather Pack|Silver Seat-belts|
adamr is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 07:25 AM   #54
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamr View Post
lol ...

honestly though i think just race guys ... no pink slips ... was suppose to get a C63 also, and would love to see how the dct fairs against it ...
I don't think that was really a serious option, racing for pinks. But I would love to see a stock M3 vs a stock C63 (both cars as near standard spec) as possible, just to confirm whether the opinion that the C63 is way faster is correct.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 09:25 AM   #55
T Bone
Brigadier General
 
T Bone's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

Posts: 4,021
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Sticky comments on wanting to know the other car is stock basically proves to me how flawed T Bone's insistence of using M5Board video events as proof positive. All their videos prove is that the two cars in question in eah race that there is a winner and that is it, not whether they are stock or anything.

Gustav, even pointed out as much in his on comments.

The facts are that all of the C63 is almost every controlled tested (magazine) the C63 is quicker, though as of yet no M-DCT vs C63 has been conducted to the best of my knowledge. The point is that up to the 150mph mark the C63 is over 2 seconds quicker and in the only test I know of where the M3 MT and DCT have been tested together the manual was slower to the 120mph mark but regained the advantage after this point and was quicker to the 150mph mark.

Likewise the controlled tests of the RS4 show that though it IS slower than the M3, the gap is in the tenths of a second to the 150mph mark and not in the seconds as the M5Board events videos show. If you were to believe them as gospel then Quattro does saps huge amounts of power but I know from experience that when two pretty equally power cars meet (awd vs rwd) the difference is still very much so driver dependent.

Maybe T Bone needs to see pass his BWM bias and live in the real world.

Footie, perhaps you need help with the English language....

The M5board videos show the exact results of any given race no matter who wins. There is no bias.

In the case of the MDCT vs. C63, it is universally accepted that the C63 is faster. The C63 could have lost for a whole host of reasons in the videos.

In the RS4 (again you bring up Audi), it loses universally, against BMWs, MBs and even trucks. There are enough M5board videos of the RS4 getting spanked that it eliminates the odd bad run.


Just for your reading impairment:
  • M5board videos = unbias
  • C63 is univerally faster than M3
  • RS4 gets killed by M3, MB, SUVs.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
T Bone is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 10:41 AM   #56
KWY91
Major
 
KWY91's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 BMW M3 (on order), 458
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Exeter, Devon

Posts: 1,299
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamr View Post
lol ...

honestly though i think just race guys ... no pink slips ... was suppose to get a C63 also, and would love to see how the dct fairs against it ...
+1 I would love to see how the C63 fairs against the M3!
KWY91 is offline   Singapore
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 10:57 AM   #57
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Footie, perhaps you need help with the English language.... I actually use proper English, unlike you, i.e. tyre instead tire.

The M5board videos show the exact results of any given race no matter who wins. There is no bias. Please read my reply to Gustav, you will see I have readjusted my position on whether they are bias or not.

In the case of the MDCT vs. C63, it is universally accepted that the C63 is faster. The C63 could have lost for a whole host of reasons in the videos.
So you are saying that on this occasion the results of this M5Board video isn't gospel. Now that is an amazing turn around for you.

In the RS4 (again you bring up Audi), it loses universally, against BMWs, MBs and even trucks. There are enough M5board videos of the RS4 getting spanked that it eliminates the odd bad run. The facts are that only in these videos from M5Board events does Quattro cars lose by such a large gap and I even proved as much with the 3.0TDiQuattro vs 530d video, two cars with identical power+torque figures and near identical weights. I don't recall you commenting on that one.


Just for your reading impairment:
  • M5board videos = unbias Maybe, but they are not controlled
  • C63 is univerally faster than M3 It's definitely my opinion anyway
  • RS4 gets killed by M3, MB, SUVs. Only in M5Board events
P.S.
Univerally is spelt with an S = Universally.

English man, English.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 01:47 PM   #58
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,032
iTrader: (1)

Hans (our best C63 AMG convert/board participant) and I live within an hour or so of each other and my office is about 20 minutes from her house. I would be down for some race experimentation but would certainly like a safe place not to go to jail doing it.... Hans??
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2008, 03:48 PM   #59
ybbiz34
Moderator
 
ybbiz34's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 C63 AMG Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,446
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Hans (our best C63 AMG convert/board participant) and I live within an hour or so of each other and my office is about 20 minutes from her house. I would be down for some race experimentation but would certainly like a safe place not to go to jail doing it.... Hans??
Glorious.
__________________
'13 Iridium Silver C63 AMG Sedan (540 hp; 500 lb-ft)
ybbiz34 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2008, 04:37 AM   #60
Sticky
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu

Posts: 2,244
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
Where is Hans? Someone PM him, he is located in Huntington Beach.

I am sure you can find someone on the other MB forums. It should not be hard at all. If you are serious I will post on their forums for a competitor.

Did you ever run against your friends M5?
I ran another friends M5 tonight and got it on video (seems like all my friends have M5's). His M5 is modded, with Dinan gears, software, intake, and exhaust along with HRE C20's. I'll have the video up probably by the end of the week if I am not too busy. I think it will open some eyes as to the M3 DCT capability.
Sticky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2008, 05:20 AM   #61
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Sticky,

I take it that from the above comments that your M3 did quite well.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2008, 06:23 AM   #62
Sticky
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu

Posts: 2,244
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Sticky,

I take it that from the above comments that your M3 did quite well.
Shockingly well... the run from a stop really shows the difference between the quality of launch control on the M3 with DCT vs. SMG.
Sticky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2008, 01:30 PM   #63
footie
Major General
 
footie's Avatar
 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

Posts: 7,507
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Shockingly well... the run from a stop really shows the difference between the quality of launch control on the M3 with DCT vs. SMG.

I'm looking forward to sampling the LC for myself, but I still will stay clear of any C63s or RS4s for now as I still have doubts if the M3 will win below the 120mph marker.
footie is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2008, 05:21 PM   #64
Sticky
Banned
 
Drives: E92 Jerez DCT M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anaheim Hills / Malibu

Posts: 2,244
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I'm looking forward to sampling the LC for myself, but I still will stay clear of any C63s or RS4s for now as I still have doubts if the M3 will win below the 120mph marker.
No reason to, with launch control the C63 will be playing catch up and the RS4 driver better know how to launch the AWD perfectly. Even just flooring it out of 1st in MDM is a great way to launch.
Sticky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2008, 02:16 PM   #65
Hans Delbruck
BMW & MB - friends in my garage
 
Hans Delbruck's Avatar
 
Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Posts: 1,285
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Hans (our best C63 AMG convert/board participant) and I live within an hour or so of each other and my office is about 20 minutes from her house. I would be down for some race experimentation but would certainly like a safe place not to go to jail doing it.... Hans??
Thanks for the propers swamp.... and I don't want to poop on the party but I don't think this would really prove anything. I've run every possible scenario of outcomes in my head (which we know is the perfect place to run simulations ) and it's always going to come down to the driver. Therefore, it's not going to prove anything about the cars except what happens when swamp in an M-DCT M3 races Hans in a C63. Seriously, any data is going to be different for any two other cars with two other drivers in a different venue.

These cars are just too close acceleration-wise. It's a driver's "race" IMO. The only legitimate place to do this would be on a dragstrip. And while I claim a mild amount of skill in launching a manual... I claim no skill with an automatic. I could have a friend of mine drive my car down the strip, but again, I don't know what this will prove beyond what we've already read in the ragazines. The M-DCT is a formidable car in a straight line and I have never claimed the C63 to be faster (unless the DCT is stalling or limping ) If I did line up with one, I would report any results here but it would have to be a chance occurance. An arranged event has way too much potential for 20,000 hits on the thread, 40,000 assumptions about the results and even more publicity about our driving skills/cars than I think either swamp or I would want.

__________________
2009 135i 6MT Euro Delivery 9/5/09
BMW Performance Power Kit - Exhaust - Short Shifter
Hans Delbruck is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-09-2008, 04:03 PM   #66
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,032
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Thanks for the propers swamp.... and I don't want to poop on the party but I don't think this would really prove anything. I've run every possible scenario of outcomes in my head (which we know is the perfect place to run simulations ) and it's always going to come down to the driver. Therefore, it's not going to prove anything about the cars except what happens when swamp in an M-DCT M3 races Hans in a C63. Seriously, any data is going to be different for any two other cars with two other drivers in a different venue.

These cars are just too close acceleration-wise. It's a driver's "race" IMO. The only legitimate place to do this would be on a dragstrip. And while I claim a mild amount of skill in launching a manual... I claim no skill with an automatic. I could have a friend of mine drive my car down the strip, but again, I don't know what this will prove beyond what we've already read in the ragazines. The M-DCT is a formidable car in a straight line and I have never claimed the C63 to be faster (unless the DCT is stalling or limping ) If I did line up with one, I would report any results here but it would have to be a chance occurance. An arranged event has way too much potential for 20,000 hits on the thread, 40,000 assumptions about the results and even more publicity about our driving skills/cars than I think either swamp or I would want.

A very good set of points and a agree. I have only been to the strip a few times. So my ability to launch a MT or AT is nowhere near a professional (nor even ameteur) racer. Heck I have had lots of trouble with launch control in my M-DCT which should be dummy proof.

Although I agree much of any head to head testing would demonstrate more about driver skill than vehicle. However, if we did some rolling starts, timed things well and left both cars in automatic mode we should be able to tell more about the cars than us as drivers. The more empirical evidence the better. I do reiterate that as willing as I would be to do this I am not willing to risk license and jail time. If it was done not at a real strip it would really have to be private property or the middle of nowhere.

Have a think about it. I'd still like to, would be fun. We could switch cars again as well, which would be a hoot.

swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST