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      09-02-2008, 06:06 PM   #23
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Look at some of the comments for that video.. easily outproving the results with things such as 0-200kmh times.. C63 - 14.0 Sec and the E92 DCT Coupe - 15.2 sec
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      09-02-2008, 06:27 PM   #24
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I think we are looking like idiots discussing this video. This board is full of inconsistencies. Not on purpose, but they post what suit them. I don't think they do second runs when it does not suit them.

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      09-03-2008, 01:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerj View Post
As I was always an owner of a BMW and getting the C63 AMG soon. I went through some of the videos they have. They might not cheat, but one thing is for sure, the videos are not consistent. Check the video of THIS coupe vs the conv M3 and the C63 vs the conv. It is not possible for the coupe to pull on the C63.

On another note, I am going to show you all the inconsistencies (on this board) in the videos I saved.
Buddy, the E93 weighs more than an M5.

It is very possible for a DCT coupe to pull, I pulled an E63 the other day.
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      09-03-2008, 01:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Buddy, the E93 weighs more than an M5.

It is very possible for a DCT coupe to pull, I pulled an E63 the other day.
I don't know if you have been paying attention but there is 3 videos out right now..

1: E92 vs E93 - E92 won by 5-6 cars
2: C63 vs E93 - C63 won by 10 cars
3: C63 vs E92- ??? E92 won by 7-8 cars?

Show me your logic..
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      09-03-2008, 01:18 AM   #27
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E92 DCT 0-200 in 14.9 official figure. Best I've seen the Merc do in mag tests is 14.5. A number of times I've seen it pull more than 15 secs. Maybe the inconsistencies are on MB's behalf.
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      09-03-2008, 01:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
I don't know if you have been paying attention but there is 3 videos out right now..

1: E92 vs E93 - E92 won by 5-6 cars
2: C63 vs E93 - C63 won by 10 cars
3: C63 vs E92- ??? E92 won by 7-8 cars?

Show me your logic..
Did you not read quoted the post? He mentioned the E93 video running the C63. Comparing different cars from different videos as basis for a result of a E92 is futile. Not to mention the coupe is significantly lighter.

Sorry, your estimated car lengths are not exactly scientific. I feel what I do about the DCT performance from first hand experience, not estimating car lengths among different cars in different videos.
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      09-03-2008, 02:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
I don't know if you have been paying attention but there is 3 videos out right now..

1: E92 vs E93 - E92 won by 5-6 cars
2: C63 vs E93 - C63 won by 10 cars
3: C63 vs E92- ??? E92 won by 7-8 cars?

Show me your logic..
It sounds to me like you are not reading nor paying attention here. There is some inconsistency but not as much as you make out. It is not only Coupe vs. Vert but don't forget TRANSMISSION.
  • The E93 is about 450 lb heavier than the E92. That is roughly 10% in terms of power to weight or equivalently the E93 would need about 460 hp to just keep up with the E92! (Obviously considering both cars with the SAME transmission)
  • M-DCT is good for about a 20 hp equivalent, again a rough equivalent based on simulation and actual performance results.
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      09-03-2008, 02:18 AM   #30
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All: Don't forget the very useful database we have compiled here (or on the last page of that thread). Real world results WILL vary fairly widely, skilled driver or not, magazine test or not, attempts to standardize or not.

0-200 kph

E90/E92 (at least 10 data points)
best: 15.2 s
worst: 16.7 s

E92 M-DCT (single data point)
15.2 s

E93 M-DCT (only two data points)
17.3 s and 17.6 s

C63 AMG (only three data points)
best: 15.3 s
worst: 15.6 s

So my conclusion from this is that generally the C63 AMG will best a 6MT E90/E92 M3. M-DCT has a shot to slightly best the C63 AMG (more M-DCT data points needed to see the real world spread!). The E93 is in a different class, M-DCT or not.
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      09-03-2008, 04:27 AM   #31
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Alex posted a reply on the MB forum. If you read it, it will make sense why he lost by that much.
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      09-03-2008, 06:51 AM   #32
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To the C63 and M3 owners , why dont you guys film your own races?
Show us some racing videos. Prove m5board.com that the winner can be different. As of now you guys speculate with no proof to back it up.

I've seen two M3 vs C63 videos and the M3 wins both races. Now its up to you guys to show us a different result.


And comparing three different videos to decide which car is the fastest makes no sense. You dont get the exact same start or exact change gears everytime. A race differs, a race cant be the exact same over and over again. Many factors are involved.

Less talk more videos please!
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      09-03-2008, 10:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I know I have been very harsh with my opinions on the subject of M5Board videos but this has only come about through comments from T Bone, using it as gospel when everything about their evidence is circumstantial. The same applies with this M3 vs C63 video, on this occasion the M3 won but the reality is that 9 out of 10 times the Merc would win,

Show me where I say the M3 is faster than the C63....ever. These videos are about the best videos on the net for anything resembling a controlled environment for high speed runs. There is no fixing as you have falsely accused on numerous ocassions.

You are just pissed because none of these videos ever show Audi taillights.
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      09-03-2008, 11:26 AM   #34
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This should help answer some questions. This is from the owner of the C63 who lost in that race:

"Hi guys!

Me and my friend took turns driving my dads C63 at this little event.
As youīve seen earlier we won against the M3 Conv, and as I said lost against this Coupe.

I donīt know what was done to that Coupe, more than the Hartge exhaust, but It was definately something īcause it was fu**ing fast!

I hardely hadīnt driven the Merc before this event īcause I lost my driverslicense, so I didnīt really "feel it" regarding optimal starts and shifts etc.

At 50-250 km/h i tried starting at M1 but it shifted too fast to second gear so I lost to much time in the start, which explains the big difference in the beginning of the race.

Regarding M5board, I think they do a pretty good job, Gustav invites a couple of guys that races to each other, wantīs to have a good time and thats it.

Itīs always some smarta** that say their car is standard but everybody knows itīs not, but thats the way it is.

And the drivers are all hobbyracers, so itīs pretty hard judging starts when theyīre not pros.

Alex"
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      09-03-2008, 01:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
This should help answer some questions. This is from the owner of the C63 who lost in that race:

"Hi guys!

Me and my friend took turns driving my dads C63 at this little event.
As youīve seen earlier we won against the M3 Conv, and as I said lost against this Coupe.

I donīt know what was done to that Coupe, more than the Hartge exhaust, but It was definately something īcause it was fu**ing fast!

I hardely hadīnt driven the Merc before this event īcause I lost my driverslicense, so I didnīt really "feel it" regarding optimal starts and shifts etc.

At 50-250 km/h i tried starting at M1 but it shifted too fast to second gear so I lost to much time in the start, which explains the big difference in the beginning of the race.

Regarding M5board, I think they do a pretty good job, Gustav invites a couple of guys that races to each other, wantīs to have a good time and thats it.

Itīs always some smarta** that say their car is standard but everybody knows itīs not, but thats the way it is.

And the drivers are all hobbyracers, so itīs pretty hard judging starts when theyīre not pros.

Alex"
Thanks for the reply and explanation Alex, oh and sorry for losing the license, it's a bummer.

It's always been my point about street racer or these events that Gustav organises, great though they are you can not take as gospel that every race is on an equal footing, meaning stock vs stock. To believe for one minute that an M3 with a simple exhaust mod would walk away from a C63 in acceleration is absurd, but that is what we are lead to believe from the video and by the owner of the M3. This is not to say that if two stock cars meet a similar situation M3 M-DCT vs C63 that the racing wouldn't be close, but you definitely wouldn't have to view a falling behind C63 through the rear side window.

Magazine results are as near a true reflection of each car's performance as we will ever get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone
Show me where I say the M3 is faster than the C63....ever. Never said you did These videos are about the best videos on the net for anything resembling a controlled environment for high speed runs. They definitely are pure entertainment and I enjoy watching them as much as the next person There is no fixing as you have falsely accused on numerous ocassions. Agreed, I have been harsh in this but it's you insistence that everything we see is gospel that has lead to my using that statement

You are just pissed because none of these videos ever show Audi taillights. TB, you insist that Quattro robs power and use these videos as evidence, I have provided similar video from Youtube showing the opposite, isn't about time to stop this quest you are on and accept that what every differences there are between awd and rwd are a lot smaller than you are portraying
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      09-03-2008, 03:15 PM   #36
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Magazine results could also show a "slow C63 AMG", as one of the most respected publications in Europe, Auto Motor und Sport issue 4/2008.

http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/fi..._2008_B3BT.pdf

There the C63 AMG does 0-200 km/h slower
than the manual BMW M3 Coupe:

15,4 (M3 Coupe manual) vs 15,6 (C63 AMG) to 200 km/h.

My guess is that the M3 DKG will have the upper hand compared to the auto C63 AMG at speeds over 200 km/h as well.

FYI we also recorded 0-200 km/h times with proffesional equipment with the M3 Coupe and the best time to 200 km/h was 15,49 s to 200 km/h.

And a question for you: wiht how many carlenths will the C63 AMG beat the Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) that was on the event?




Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Thanks for the reply and explanation Alex, oh and sorry for losing the license, it's a bummer.

It's always been my point about street racer or these events that Gustav organises, great though they are you can not take as gospel that every race is on an equal footing, meaning stock vs stock. To believe for one minute that an M3 with a simple exhaust mod would walk away from a C63 in acceleration is absurd, but that is what we are lead to believe from the video and by the owner of the M3. This is not to say that if two stock cars meet a similar situation M3 M-DCT vs C63 that the racing wouldn't be close, but you definitely wouldn't have to view a falling behind C63 through the rear side window.

Magazine results are as near a true reflection of each car's performance as we will ever get.
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      09-03-2008, 03:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Magazine results could also show a "slow C63 AMG", as one of the most respected publications in Europe, Auto Motor und Sport issue 4/2008.

http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/fi..._2008_B3BT.pdf

There the C63 AMG does 0-200 km/h slower
than the manual BMW M3 Coupe:

15,4 (M3 Coupe manual) vs 15,6 (C63 AMG) to 200 km/h.

My guess is that the M3 DKG will have the upper hand compared to the auto C63 AMG at speeds over 200 km/h as well.

FYI we also recorded 0-200 km/h times with proffesional equipment with the M3 Coupe and the best time to 200 km/h was 15,49 s to 200 km/h.

And a question for you: wiht how many carlenths will the C63 AMG beat the Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) that was on the event?
Firstly, my I formally welcome you to this site as it's only been your second post.

I suppose I should apologise for my remarks on your tests, my disagreement with some of the results aren't really anything to do with you personally, all races are held in good faith and you have to take people at their word. But some of the results are very suspect, even you have to admit that much.

I haven't checked on the split times from 200km/h ~ 250km/h for either car (M3 DCT & C63), may be you can enlighten us with these facts. I have read results from US magazines were the Mercedes reaches to the 150mph mark over 2 seconds quicker but this was a manual M3.

As for the 997 vs C63, I haven't a clue, I guess by 4~6 lengths. Please tell.

P.S.
Is there a typo on the weight of the M3 and C63 in that AMS test, the M3 saloon weighs 1609Kgs compared to the C63 weighing 1803Kgs. BWM even quote more than that (1680Kgs) with zero extras fitted, while Mercedes quote (1730Kgs), that means the M3 came under weight by 71Kgs and the C63 was over weight by 73Kgs. Very strange if you ask me and might explain the results we are seeing in this particular test.
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      09-03-2008, 04:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Thanks for the reply and explanation Alex, oh and sorry for losing the license, it's a bummer.
Just to clarify, that was a quote I pulled off of mbworld.org. I'm not Alex, nor do I know him.
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      09-03-2008, 05:00 PM   #39
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oh footie...first swamp..now gustav.
You forgot to add T Bone to that list.
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      09-05-2008, 01:07 AM   #40
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Welcome to board Gustav, always enjoyed your videos. Keep it up!
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      09-06-2008, 03:38 PM   #41
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Call me stubborn, but I still can't accept an M3 being as quick in acceleration as the C63.
[u2b]PBi9c0ddamk&feature=related[/u2b]


I know this in only a manual M3 and the M-DCT car will be a little quicker but when I match up the points when both cars start to accelerate, the Mercedes is the quicker and it's more than just a second or so to the 250km/h mark.
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      09-06-2008, 05:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Call me stubborn, but I still can't accept an M3 being as quick in acceleration as the C63.
[u2b]PBi9c0ddamk&feature=related[/u2b]


I know this in only a manual M3 and the M-DCT car will be a little quicker but when I match up the points when both cars start to accelerate, the Mercedes is the quicker and it's more than just a second or so to the 250km/h mark.
The DCT is geared shorter and shifts faster, footie your post provides no insight into DCT vs. C63.

It is fairly easy for me to accept that a manual M3 will be beaten by a C63. I can accept that a manual M5 will be beaten by an E55 as well.
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      09-06-2008, 07:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Call me stubborn, but I still can't accept an M3 being as quick in acceleration as the C63.
Trust me, you are not the only one. The post on the MB forum by the C63 driver, really tells it all.
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      09-06-2008, 07:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Call me stubborn, but I still can't accept an M3 being as quick in acceleration as the C63.

I know this in only a manual M3 and the M-DCT car will be a little quicker but when I match up the points when both cars start to accelerate, the Mercedes is the quicker and it's more than just a second or so to the 250km/h mark.

There are 2 issues footie.... I think the C63 is faster than the M3 DCT but the second issue is you take the M5board video and then say it is fixed.

In that particular race the M3 won, who knows what the circumstances are. The M5board videos show just that, not fixed. I wouldn't be surprised in Gustav's next round of vids, the C63 win.
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