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      08-28-2008, 03:15 PM   #1
plnwu
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Thoughts on New Camaro?

Was reading thread on M3 versus Challenger/Charger/Neon/Dart for amusement. Would like to hear thoughts out there on new Camaro versus the M3 as I still apparently have some leftover muscle car genes in the system. My guess is M3 will clearly outperform it, particularly on handling side. But less big/boxy than Charger, legacy brand, etc. makes it a more formidable competitor I would guess. Any thoughts?
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      08-28-2008, 03:16 PM   #2
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2008 M3  [3.50]
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heavy. nice exterior, typical GM interior
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      08-28-2008, 10:31 PM   #3
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Two different cars catering to two different markets. There is no way you can compare them. Both are excellent cars for different reasons.
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      08-29-2008, 01:22 AM   #4
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the world is not flat, not straight, and not 1/4 mile long. therfore Camaro FTL!
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      08-29-2008, 04:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
the world is not flat, not straight, and not 1/4 mile long. therfore Camaro FTL!
The new Camaro was only 2 seconds slower around the "ring' than the IS-F, so it can't handle that bad.
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      08-29-2008, 08:52 AM   #6
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I like the new Camaro a lot,but it is not a M3 challenger at all.I am quite nostalgic about the Camaros as I learned to drive on my moms 67 convertible and have owned quite a few including a 70 Z28 and 96 SS.I hope the car does quite well as GM needs that.
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      08-29-2008, 11:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
the world is not flat, not straight, and not 1/4 mile long. therfore Camaro FTL!
Not actually sure what FTL actually means (pardon my ignorance), but I can assume it's not akin to a thumbs up.

However, this is a common misconception amongst those who don't follow amateur racing venues.

The last generation Camaros absolutely owned the SCCA showroom stock racing and autocross (YES) events in their class. They had a ton of power, really good brakes, and were absolute track rats, especially with the 1LE (think sports) package.

The new one is (surprise) bigger and heavier, but that 8:20 at the 'Ring compares favorably with the Euro E46 M3, so I'm guessing it'll be a fun ride - around the twisties as well as in a straight line.

No, I doubt it will be any real challenge to a current M3, but of course I'm wondering what a U.S. spec M3 (meaning standard sneakers and brakes) would do at the 'Ring with a cockpit assassin on board (which I assume was a part of the Camaro effort). At a guess, a little off the current 8:05 mark, but nowhere near the 8:20 mark.

More importantly, perhaps, is how will the car feel in everyday driving. At a guess, pretty decent, but not in M3 territory. I've already documented my feeling about the M3 steering (good, but I actually liked a 128i better). However, this was in a laid-back test drive of a brand new car. In a subsequent M3 drive wherein I could hammer the car a bit, I thought the steering pretty much perfect - an area where I'd guess the Camaro would fall somewhat short.

I'm thinking the new Camaro will be a winner, dynamically speaking, but obviously in a double or triple-A league, as oppposed to the bigs.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 08-29-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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      08-29-2008, 09:57 PM   #8
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Hi Bruce,

Good points; unfortunately, those days are likely over. The Camaro was cheap for the performance it gave, but I think that the new one will be alot more expensive. There are magazines hinting that even the standard V6 will start at least $25,000.

I would love for GM to bring out a small RWD V8 coupe for about $20,000. They can even keep it at 300 hp (just as long as it's a smallblock) to avoid competing with the Camaro.
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      08-30-2008, 12:05 PM   #9
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I like the styling, but thats about it....I'm sure the interior, build quality and handling will suck too....

For example I drove a GTO with the 6.0L V8 400hp automatic...the engine was great...good power through the RPM range....not the typical high RPM drop off that most pushrod V8's do.... Handling was okay too......but the ride sucked & the interior squeeked and rattled something horrible for a 1 year old car with 10k miles....
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      08-30-2008, 12:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemang17 View Post
I like the styling, but thats about it....I'm sure the interior, build quality and handling will suck too....

For example I drove a GTO with the 6.0L V8 400hp automatic...the engine was great...good power through the RPM range....not the typical high RPM drop off that most pushrod V8's do.... Handling was okay too......but the ride sucked & the interior squeeked and rattled something horrible for a 1 year old car with 10k miles....
In all fairness, the squeaks/rattles can be found in any car, regardless of brand. Secondly, to use one test example to conclude that any car that comes out of GM will suffer the same problems is erroneous.

The GTO and Camaro share almost nothing in common. They don't share the same suspension, chassis, or even architecture. They don't even share the same engines or automatic transmissions.
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      08-31-2008, 07:16 PM   #11
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I like the retro-ish interior.
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      09-02-2008, 11:06 AM   #12
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The specs that I have seen on the new Camaro are 3700 lbs with an almost 50/50 weight balance. There is the possibility of a surprising result in terms of handling on this car. I don't think it is an M3 competitor, but it might be a very good value at $32-35K.
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      09-14-2008, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
The specs that I have seen on the new Camaro are 3700 lbs with an almost 50/50 weight balance. There is the possibility of a surprising result in terms of handling on this car. I don't think it is an M3 competitor, but it might be a very good value at $32-35K.
- minus the GM employee discount for the win!
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      09-14-2008, 11:53 PM   #14
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Definitely not a competitor of the M3, but its exterior looks are quite good.
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      09-15-2008, 12:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Not actually sure what FTL actually means (pardon my ignorance), but I can assume it's not akin to a thumbs up.

However, this is a common misconception amongst those who don't follow amateur racing venues.

The last generation Camaros absolutely owned the SCCA showroom stock racing and autocross (YES) events in their class. They had a ton of power, really good brakes, and were absolute track rats, especially with the 1LE (think sports) package.

The new one is (surprise) bigger and heavier, but that 8:20 at the 'Ring compares favorably with the Euro E46 M3, so I'm guessing it'll be a fun ride - around the twisties as well as in a straight line.

No, I doubt it will be any real challenge to a current M3, but of course I'm wondering what a U.S. spec M3 (meaning standard sneakers and brakes) would do at the 'Ring with a cockpit assassin on board (which I assume was a part of the Camaro effort). At a guess, a little off the current 8:05 mark, but nowhere near the 8:20 mark.

More importantly, perhaps, is how will the car feel in everyday driving. At a guess, pretty decent, but not in M3 territory. I've already documented my feeling about the M3 steering (good, but I actually liked a 128i better). However, this was in a laid-back test drive of a brand new car. In a subsequent M3 drive wherein I could hammer the car a bit, I thought the steering pretty much perfect - an area where I'd guess the Camaro would fall somewhat short.

I'm thinking the new Camaro will be a winner, dynamically speaking, but obviously in a double or triple-A league, as oppposed to the bigs.

Bruce

FTL=For the Loss
where as FTW=For the Win
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      09-26-2008, 12:32 AM   #16
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the Camaro is probaly the best American car thats not a corvette that has been made in some time...

0-60 in 4.5

422 hp, but with light upgrades makes well over 500hp.

It lap'd the ring faster than a Porsche Cayman S...

It pulls a lateral acceleration at .97gs.

just a little comparison...

Porsche 911 Turbo .96gs

Nissan GTR .98g's

E92 M3 .94gs

The best thing about it though, is it will start under 30k, so it wont break the bank to buy one and ugrade the shit out of it
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      09-26-2008, 09:01 AM   #17
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Sorry, but I just think the Camero looks like shite. It could be as fast as a F430 and I'd still not be tempted by it.

Sure, BumbleBee in the Transformers movie looked great. But that is putting the car into a very bright and specific spotlight.
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      09-26-2008, 09:13 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Sorry, but I just think the Camero looks like shite. It could be as fast as a F430 and I'd still not be tempted by it.

Sure, BumbleBee in the Transformers movie looked great. But that is putting the car into a very bright and specific spotlight.
and a $15,000 paint job

ive got a buddy that has one on pre-order... i hear alllll about it whether i want to or not.

Its gonna be a badass car for the money, definately dominating anthing near the price range. that being said, ill take an M.
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      09-26-2008, 09:23 AM   #19
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In my opinion GM cars lack class... I'm sure the Camaro will be a great car for the money, probably very fast and easy to modify. I bet it will give any M3 owner a run for their money on the street too. Depending on the driver will probably win a lot also. But what I like about the M3 is it's a classy car too. When you don't feel like racing from stop light to stop light you still have a really nice almost luxury car to go out in. Nice leather seats, comfortable. Perfect when you're going out to a nice dinner on a date or some other nice event. GM just looks cheap for all these occasions. in my opinion this makes the M3 far superior, because you get the best of both worlds. Plus everything I've ever owned of GM, (which has been a lot) ends up going in for lots of warranty work.
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      09-26-2008, 12:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
the world is not flat, not straight, and not 1/4 mile long. therfore Camaro FTL!
True, but how many people do you think would take their car to a road course, let alone a $70k car like the M3. Guarantee no more than 10% of the current M3 owners will be tracking their car. If you look at all the race videos in Youtube or Streetfire.net or any other race related video forums, they are mostly if not all a straighline race. Whether it'll be from a roll or a dig or in a 1/4 mile. So yes the world is not all about straighline racing, but in the real world, that is all that is mostly available.

BTW, a great example would be the racing videos from M5board.com. All straightline races from ethier a roll or dig. And most cars are usually great road course handling cars such as BMW's and Porsche's.

Last edited by jaeS4; 09-26-2008 at 01:53 PM.
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      09-26-2008, 01:11 PM   #21
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Off topic, but nice video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovZWaOYMBkE

Granted that the Z06 is about 500lbs lighter, but If the Z06 can do this to the M6, the V8 Camaro might have a chance with the M3 if it's not too heavy or better yet lighter than the M3.
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      09-26-2008, 01:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
the world is not flat, not straight, and not 1/4 mile long. therfore Camaro FTL!
well at least someone can live with being ignorant!

Im really not a huge camaro fan, dont like the interior.. and i can stand the exterior just not something id want to own...

but a stock Camaro will give an M3 a run for its money, and an upgraded camaro will beat the M3 without to much trouble.

If you watch that video, the power that corvette puts out that destroys the M6, is about 75hp and 20lbs of torque LESS than what you'd get with 5k worth of parts for the Camaro.
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