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View Poll Results: Which paddle gear box gives a better driving experience?
New MDCT 85 79.44%
Old SMG II 22 20.56%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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      08-30-2008, 01:18 AM   #23
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there is no comparison ... period!!!! ... tried the SMG extensively
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      08-30-2008, 10:30 AM   #24
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Anyone feel the time lag when you do the shifting? The time lag I am talking about is, when you pull the paddle to give the command for the car to shift, it take sometime e.g. at least 1/2 to 2/3 second to react. Then the gearbox shift very fast, yes, very fast. But when the two part added together, the shift was very slow..... when compare with other dual clutch system.

I have complained this to my dealer to see what they can do. I think maybe something wrong with my car but not others.
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      08-30-2008, 02:01 PM   #25
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There is a difference between a rawer car and technologically inferior car. While sometimes they can be mistaken for each other, in this case the SMG is just the inferior technology. Preferring SMG over DCT is like preferring a harsh bumpy ride to a firm compliant ride.

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      08-30-2008, 02:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
There is a difference between a rawer car and technologically inferior car. While sometimes they can be mistaken for each other, in this case the SMG is just the inferior technology. Preferring SMG over DCT is like preferring a harsh bumpy ride to a firm compliant ride.

Jason
+1... 100% agree... MDCT FTMFW!
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      08-30-2008, 04:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatting View Post
Anyone feel the time lag when you do the shifting? The time lag I am talking about is, when you pull the paddle to give the command for the car to shift, it take sometime e.g. at least 1/2 to 2/3 second to react. Then the gearbox shift very fast, yes, very fast. But when the two part added together, the shift was very slow..... when compare with other dual clutch system.

I have complained this to my dealer to see what they can do. I think maybe something wrong with my car but not others.
And tell me what dual clutch systems you have tried because I know DSG is slower than the M-DCT, I have been told by a person with an EVO X that it's also slower. That leaves the GTR and the Bugatti, so which one have to tried?
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      08-30-2008, 05:54 PM   #28
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The GTR is quick, tried it. But Bugatti... it's still a DSG from VW, how quick can it be? O, btw... you left out the new PKD from porsche.
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      08-31-2008, 08:21 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by synclastica_86 View Post
The GTR is quick, tried it. But Bugatti... it's still a DSG from VW, how quick can it be? O, btw... you left out the new PKD from porsche.
I haven't tried the Porsche system, I did get offered to go to the Porsche centre at Silverstone to sample it before it's launch here but business commitments ruled that out.

The GTR may be quicker but I doubt it will be anything difference when both cars are on it, then the M3 shift as quick as any of them when the paddle is flicked. The Bugatti is the car very few will ever get to sample and though it is similar in design to the VAG DSG the two are built both different companies.

I just find it funny for someone to comment on all of the systems as say M-DCT is the slowest.
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      08-31-2008, 11:58 AM   #30
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I have tried VW R32, Nissan GTR35. For VW, gearshift change wise, not as fast as BMW, but when you give the 'command' over to the stick/paddle. The 'signal' was transferring faster than BMW. For GTR, no doubt, the fastest, the time you push the paddle, then the time it change.

But for F1 shift changing, it's more solid and not like DSG, too soft in engaging gears. The 599 and 430 shift using F1 technology is much better. The Scuderia 430 is the best in world in this moment, from my 2 cents point of view.
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      08-31-2008, 12:11 PM   #31
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Ferrari's still jerk during gear change. If BMW made more improvements the original SMG, i'm sure they can make it as good as Ferrari.

But still, ppl will still be complaining that a single clutch system jerks too much
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      08-31-2008, 12:50 PM   #32
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SMG! for me. but y is it that when i press the accelerator in the new mdct there is like a delay before the car goes. i have to press really far down for it to take off and even then it doesn just goi have to wait a few?????
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      08-31-2008, 01:34 PM   #33
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Try having sportier settings in the M drive. I had the same problem after getting used to the sport settings and then going back to comfort.
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      09-19-2008, 03:46 PM   #34
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According to wiki: "BMW also has a system simply called "SMG" (an abbreviation for sequential manual gearbox), but it is not a true sequential, just a modified H-pattern gearbox which uses separate electronically controlled actuators on each of the 3 selector rails." Is this true? Then is having a true sequential gearbox with a foot operated clutch the answer for the ideal gearbox for the M3?
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      09-19-2008, 03:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Of the people voting, how many have actually driven both?


I voted and haven't driven either
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      09-20-2008, 07:28 PM   #36
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DCT Is The Future - SIGH

I own an E46 M3 w/SMG and have driven the DCT. I MUCH prefer SMG's raw feel - DCT is far too smooth and makes you feel even less connected to the car than SMG (which some would argue isn't connected enough vs. manual). I HATE the fact that the new M3 is less raw and therefore less fun to drive when not being pushed to the limit (both the engine and DCT) but unfortunately DCT is the way of the future.

So, as much as I prefer SMG for its fun-to-drive factor I guess I'm going to have to get used to DCT (just like everyone else here). In 2-3 years SMG will be history an all M models and DCT, PDK, DSG, or whatever brand managers want to call it will be ubiquitous. Which is a shame, as I know I'm going to miss my SMG.

And, FWIW, I know that I'm in the minority camp by saying that I like SMG. But I've had it for years and continue to really enjoy. And it has no software issues!!
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      09-20-2008, 07:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyr4 View Post
I own an E46 M3 w/SMG and have driven the DCT. I MUCH prefer SMG's raw feel - DCT is far too smooth and makes you feel even less connected to the car than SMG (which some would argue isn't connected enough vs. manual). I HATE the fact that the new M3 is less raw and therefore less fun to drive when not being pushed to the limit (both the engine and DCT) but unfortunately DCT is the way of the future.

So, as much as I prefer SMG for its fun-to-drive factor I guess I'm going to have to get used to DCT (just like everyone else here). In 2-3 years SMG will be history an all M models and DCT, PDK, DSG, or whatever brand managers want to call it will be ubiquitous. Which is a shame, as I know I'm going to miss my SMG.

And, FWIW, I know that I'm in the minority camp by saying that I like SMG. But I've had it for years and continue to really enjoy. And it has no software issues!!
No software issues but wasn't the first implementation of SMG a total failure. DCT is still new. Just gotta give them time to work it out like any new technology.
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      09-20-2008, 09:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synclastica_86 View Post
According to wiki: "BMW also has a system simply called "SMG" (an abbreviation for sequential manual gearbox), but it is not a true sequential, just a modified H-pattern gearbox which uses separate electronically controlled actuators on each of the 3 selector rails." Is this true? Then is having a true sequential gearbox with a foot operated clutch the answer for the ideal gearbox for the M3?
The SMG II is simply a modified manual M3 6 speed gearbox which in itself is just the E39 M5 6 speed gearbox.

SMG III was built from the ground up as a sequential.
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      09-20-2008, 09:38 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyr4 View Post
I own an E46 M3 w/SMG and have driven the DCT. I MUCH prefer SMG's raw feel - DCT is far too smooth and makes you feel even less connected to the car than SMG (which some would argue isn't connected enough vs. manual). I HATE the fact that the new M3 is less raw and therefore less fun to drive when not being pushed to the limit (both the engine and DCT) but unfortunately DCT is the way of the future.

So, as much as I prefer SMG for its fun-to-drive factor I guess I'm going to have to get used to DCT (just like everyone else here). In 2-3 years SMG will be history an all M models and DCT, PDK, DSG, or whatever brand managers want to call it will be ubiquitous. Which is a shame, as I know I'm going to miss my SMG.

And, FWIW, I know that I'm in the minority camp by saying that I like SMG. But I've had it for years and continue to really enjoy. And it has no software issues!!
If you put DCT in S6 the shifts are so brutal SMG is tame in comparison. This is coming from a guy who had an SMG E46 M3 and loved it. The only thing I miss is the shifter response time. In my opinion the new M3 is superior on the limit, same conclusion most mags come to.
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      09-21-2008, 12:39 AM   #40
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Quote:
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If you put DCT in S6 the shifts are so brutal SMG is tame in comparison. This is coming from a guy who had an SMG E46 M3 and loved it. The only thing I miss is the shifter response time. In my opinion the new M3 is superior on the limit, same conclusion most mags come to.
+1

S6. floor it, very very brutal. I've been on the track in multiples SMGs, DCT > SMG except for the downshift denial which "should" be fixed.
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      09-21-2008, 12:47 AM   #41
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      09-21-2008, 05:36 AM   #42
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I have driven extensively E46 M3 SMG2 and TT Mk2 DSG.
I have driven E90 M3 DCT for 1 month.
SMG2 - the feel is pretty much like a manual shift, raw, and you need some "skills" to manage it.
DSG - As smooth as automatic no matter how you drive it, really quick shift time
DCT - So far, I am using S3 and D2 and my the first impression is that it s somewhere in-between SMG2 and DSG. Need more time to explore.
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      09-21-2008, 07:34 AM   #43
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I have driven extensively E46 M3 SMG2 and TT Mk2 DSG.
I have driven E90 M3 DCT for 1 month.
SMG2 - the feel is pretty much like a manual shift, raw, and you need some "skills" to manage it.
DSG - As smooth as automatic no matter how you drive it, really quick shift time
DCT - So far, I am using S3 and D2 and my the first impression is that it s somewhere in-between SMG2 and DSG. Need more time to explore.
S1 definitely slures the shifts, S2 I am not so sure, S3 has a very slight jerk, S4 more jerk and near perfect blip on downshift, S5 too extreme on the jerk and blip also too extreme.

I prefer S2~3 at the moment but I also feel that DSG is quicker at completing the shift.
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      09-21-2008, 08:31 AM   #44
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I've driven both SMG2 and DCT and I've also driven both on the track. Once the downshifting issue has been resolved for DCT it will be a superior transmission for all phases of driving, however right now it only effects track driving.

I agree with some previous posts that (pre DCT software update) DCT is better for street driving while SMG was better for the track. However I'm hoping the update will fix the DCT track shortcomings. SMG shifts on the track are lightning quick although there was still an interruption of power. DCT downshifts in S5 on the track are so smooth they can't be felt and can't really be heard (with the windows down) so I found myself having to look at the gear indicator to determine if it downshifted or not. That probably won't be a factor after the software update fixes the downshifting problem.

Supposedly the upcoming software update (beginning of October) is also going to fix some of the shift delay as well as the downshifting issue. We'll have to wait and see if it's true.
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