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      08-28-2008, 08:40 PM   #23
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The C-class and CLK-class do quite well in DTM racing.
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      08-28-2008, 08:54 PM   #24
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I hope you could tell by the smilie that I was joking. I certainly didn't mean any offense by my comment or by my disagreement.

I find it dangerous, with cars or anything else, to live too much in the past, especially if it keeps one from honestly evaluating the present. The M3 has a ton of competition now, some of it coming from surprising directions, and I won't try to judge any of it based on past reputation, biased car rag fodder, or the opinion of some desk jockey sitting behind a computer who may or may not be 13 years old.

For example, I've heard some accuse the C63 of being a soft, granny touring car with a powerful engine, when by all accounts, it's more of a raw, visceral experience than the M3 is. You're automatically assuming that the CTS-V is like every other Cadillac for octegenarians without having driven it and you're judging the CTS-V's interior without ever having sat in it.

I'll admit that pedigree means little to nothing to me. The E30 M3 has as much to do with the E90 M3 as an old Celica has with the IS-F or a 300SL has with the C63. I love the E30 M3 and many other past BMW models, but that didn't keep me from objectively evaluating the E92 M3 in its own right. I do appreciate BMW's general philosphy, but car manufacturers' philosphies change. And lack of a racing pedigree doesn't make a particular car less of a competitor, especially a car like the RS-4.

Owning a Hennarot E30 M3 is definitely a nice memory to have though.
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      08-28-2008, 10:06 PM   #25
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my problems with the CTS-V are it's weight, 4250 pounds and it's faceted slab styling, which is already starting to look dated at the front of the car.
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      08-28-2008, 10:18 PM   #26
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my problems with the CTS-V are it's weight, 4250 pounds and it's faceted slab styling, which is already starting to look dated at the front of the car.
I agree

by the way, nice review!!!
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      08-28-2008, 10:32 PM   #27
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Fanboyism STRIKES AGAIN! I think you are being ignorant if you don't think a performance sedan in similar price and size isn't a direct competitor. It might not be a direct competitor for some people because they are brand loyal, but it would be wise for BMW to keep an eye on the competition. The fact is, most of these cars are here because of the M3. Each company is trying to get a piece of that performance pie that BMW has just about monopolized, since it has been delivering awesome luxury cars with a distinct bias towards performance or the "enthusiast". MB has been their only competitor for a while, but can't find the same success. Most complaints are the AMG C-class vehicles usually just feel like a luxury car with a hotted up motor. The M3 does not give this impression, it feels like it was designed as a sports car first, with amenities and smoothness of a luxury car

. I stopped being brand loyal quite a few years ago, and these days, I shop for whatever I feel gives me what I want for the best price. Sorry for being blunt, but you're an idiot if you think the CTS-V was designed for 80yr olds. Over the last 10 years the whole reinvention of Cadillac has been due to GM's realization that most of its customer base is aging and will eventually not be around to buy more cars. If you look at the recent ads and commercials, there's nothing "old" about them. The newly redesigned CTS has reviewed well in many publications, and won Motor Trend's Car Of The Year. The exterior is probably a love/hate for many people, but the new interior is the big difference. That and the new drivetrain are probably the biggest improvement over the previous gen CTS. The previous CTS was never created to have a performance model, so the CTS-V had its quirks, but it still was a good car for the money. The new CTS was designed with every intention of having a high performance model and even the non V model does a decent job as a mild sports sedan. The V however is a sports sedan in every sense of the word. The M3 and M5 were, squarely in the sights of the Engineers/Designers, and it received extensive suspension tuning on the Nurburgring. With a detuned ZR1 motor and 556 hp, and a sub 8 minute 'Ring time, you better believe the M3 is a competitor.
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      08-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #28
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Irb just get the M3, although I won't hate you if you get the CTS-V either. I'm just not ready for 4 doors, or I would have waited for it.
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      08-28-2008, 10:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
Fanboyism STRIKES AGAIN! I think you are being ignorant if you don't think a performance sedan in similar price and size isn't a direct competitor. It might not be a direct competitor for some people because they are brand loyal, but it would be wise for BMW to keep an eye on the competition. The fact is, most of these cars are here because of the M3. Each company is trying to get a piece of that performance pie that BMW has just about monopolized, since it has been delivering awesome luxury cars with a distinct bias towards performance or the "enthusiast". MB has been their only competitor for a while, but can't find the same success. Most complaints are the AMG C-class vehicles usually just feel like a luxury car with a hotted up motor. The M3 does not give this impression, it feels like it was designed as a sports car first, with amenities and smoothness of a luxury car

. I stopped being brand loyal quite a few years ago, and these days, I shop for whatever I feel gives me what I want for the best price. Sorry for being blunt, but you're an idiot if you think the CTS-V was designed for 80yr olds. Over the last 10 years the whole reinvention of Cadillac has been due to GM's realization that most of its customer base is aging and will eventually not be around to buy more cars. If you look at the recent ads and commercials, there's nothing "old" about them. The newly redesigned CTS has reviewed well in many publications, and won Motor Trend's Car Of The Year. The exterior is probably a love/hate for many people, but the new interior is the big difference. That and the new drivetrain are probably the biggest improvement over the previous gen CTS. The previous CTS was never created to have a performance model, so the CTS-V had its quirks, but it still was a good car for the money. The new CTS was designed with every intention of having a high performance model and even the non V model does a decent job as a mild sports sedan. The V however is a sports sedan in every sense of the word. The M3 and M5 were, squarely in the sights of the Engineers/Designers, and it received extensive suspension tuning on the Nurburgring. With a detuned ZR1 motor and 556 hp, and a sub 8 minute 'Ring time, you better believe the M3 is a competitor.

I agree, other companies are catching up. Times and performance are impressive. But it still looks s**t and in two years its going look like its 10 years old.
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      08-28-2008, 11:06 PM   #30
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Nice review!
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      08-29-2008, 01:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
Fanboyism STRIKES AGAIN! I think you are being ignorant if you don't think a performance sedan in similar price and size isn't a direct competitor. It might not be a direct competitor for some people because they are brand loyal, but it would be wise for BMW to keep an eye on the competition. The fact is, most of these cars are here because of the M3. Each company is trying to get a piece of that performance pie that BMW has just about monopolized, since it has been delivering awesome luxury cars with a distinct bias towards performance or the "enthusiast". MB has been their only competitor for a while, but can't find the same success. Most complaints are the AMG C-class vehicles usually just feel like a luxury car with a hotted up motor. The M3 does not give this impression, it feels like it was designed as a sports car first, with amenities and smoothness of a luxury car

. I stopped being brand loyal quite a few years ago, and these days, I shop for whatever I feel gives me what I want for the best price. Sorry for being blunt, but you're an idiot if you think the CTS-V was designed for 80yr olds. Over the last 10 years the whole reinvention of Cadillac has been due to GM's realization that most of its customer base is aging and will eventually not be around to buy more cars. If you look at the recent ads and commercials, there's nothing "old" about them. The newly redesigned CTS has reviewed well in many publications, and won Motor Trend's Car Of The Year. The exterior is probably a love/hate for many people, but the new interior is the big difference. That and the new drivetrain are probably the biggest improvement over the previous gen CTS. The previous CTS was never created to have a performance model, so the CTS-V had its quirks, but it still was a good car for the money. The new CTS was designed with every intention of having a high performance model and even the non V model does a decent job as a mild sports sedan. The V however is a sports sedan in every sense of the word. The M3 and M5 were, squarely in the sights of the Engineers/Designers, and it received extensive suspension tuning on the Nurburgring. With a detuned ZR1 motor and 556 hp, and a sub 8 minute 'Ring time, you better believe the M3 is a competitor.
........





and for good measure, . You obviously are one of those envious nissan owners. Don't hate self loathe, don't hate your car either. My friend has one and both he and I love it. But he doesn't waste his time on BMW boards calling people fan boys. Just as I don't spend my time on Z-boards telling them they are fan boys. Many of your posts are taking on this feel, so just stop it. Oh, and

BTW: thanks for the review OP!!!
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      08-29-2008, 02:14 AM   #32
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My ranking order, subjective in all ways and possibly very uninformed. A spur of the moment ranking.

1. M3 (Good looking, managable power/powerful, great weight-distribution)
2. RS5 (Good looking, powerful, but most likely expensive)
3. CTS-V (Bargain when compared to M5, extremely powerful, but heavy)
4. C63 AMG (Decent looking, very powerful, uncontrollable when traction off)
5. GT-R (Decent looking, managable power/extremely powerful, much more expensive than rest, expensive maintainance, harsher ride/not great DD)
6. IS-F (Decent looking, powerful, most likely more reliable than competition, Just don't like it)
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      08-29-2008, 11:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
The C-class and CLK-class do quite well in DTM racing.
can either of them claim to come from the same bloodline as the most succesful touring car ever?
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      08-29-2008, 11:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
I certainly didn't mean any offense by my comment or by my disagreement.
...
Owning a Hennarot E30 M3 is definitely a nice memory to have though.
non taken

it's a great memory still regret selling it
but this is why i am going to buy a Melbourne red with black leather
same as my old one
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      08-29-2008, 11:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
Sorry for being blunt, but you're an idiot if you think the CTS-V was designed for 80yr olds. Over the last 10 years the whole reinvention of Cadillac has been due to GM's realization that most of its customer base is aging and will eventually not be around to buy more cars.
they can do all they want
at the end of the day American car companies always end up with one thing
take the corvette engine and put it in another car and lo and behold
a sports car!
takes more than just an engine, it might perform well on the 'ring
but this is no competitor to the M3, maybe the C63
they will always be good value
but you can tell where they tried to save money

watch the Top Gear review and you will see why there still is no competition to the M3

vhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDA7wMp8WE
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      08-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
........





and for good measure, . You obviously are one of those envious nissan owners. Don't hate self loathe, don't hate your car either. My friend has one and both he and I love it. But he doesn't waste his time on BMW boards calling people fan boys. Just as I don't spend my time on Z-boards telling them they are fan boys. Many of your posts are taking on this feel, so just stop it. Oh, and

BTW: thanks for the review OP!!!


I'm not sure why I have to repeat myself since you seem to have a response for a lot of my posts, but the reason I joined the board was to get a good feel from enthusiasts about the car, it's strengths/weaknesses, reliability, and the people that drive them. I've gotten a great feel overall, and so far have the M3 at the top of my list. To me, it's important to do your own research when making a $70k purchase.I'm not sure how my Z got brought into this, I love that car, but since I've got a growing family, its mostly become a garage queen. So I've decided I'm going to sell it and buy a nice luxury-sport sedan. I've always been a fan of BMW's but have never owned one, so I have no emotional attachment that would cloud my judgement. I probably would have bought the M3 already, but I'm currently deployed. Lastly, going by your math, ou have a 335 so you must have M3 envy and should probably stick to e90post.

Last edited by Irb Digital; 08-29-2008 at 01:40 PM.
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      08-29-2008, 12:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
I'm currently deployed making sure Al Quaeda doesn't violate your freedom to get on a public forum and act like an idiot.

you really beleive that??
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      08-29-2008, 12:35 PM   #38
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You're an idiot! First of all, if you don't understand a subjective review of other competitive sports sedans, then that just shows your ignorance about cars, but if you really think that our U.S. forces aren't having an impact over in the Middle East and you don't support the troops, then you trully are a stupid idiot!
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      08-29-2008, 12:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
you really beleive that??
First of all, you begin a sentence with a capital letter. Secondly, it's not "beleive", it's believe. Got it?

Finally, anyone with firing neurons (and everybody on both sides of the aisle in Washington) absolutely believes that. That's a fundamental, ever since we got caught with our blinders on, assuming we were impervious here in the U.S.

Bruce

Edit: PS - PM me if you'd like to continue the discussion.
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      08-29-2008, 12:56 PM   #40
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nice review..for the rest I can't wait to get my E90...I don't care...BMW is a BMW and I like what they have and produce...even if it isn't the fastest or torqueist car on the planet...I like the car and I am getting it!

M
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      08-29-2008, 12:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXM32B View Post
You're an idiot! First of all, if you don't understand a subjective review of other competitive sports sedans, then that just shows your ignorance about cars, but if you really think that our U.S. forces aren't having an impact over in the Middle East and you don't support the troops, then you trully are a stupid idiot!

i see you are well trained and trust what you hear by the media and the government
my what a good cititzen you are

when did i not understand the subjective review?
i disagreed with it, not misunderstood
your US forces are having an impact alright
negative opinion of the US is at an all time high
good job!
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      08-29-2008, 01:03 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
First of all, you begin a sentence with a capital letter. Secondly, it's not "beleive", it's believe. Got it?

Finally, anyone with firing neurons (and everybody on both sides of the aisle in Washington) absolutely believes that. That's a fundamental, ever since we got caught with our blinders on, assuming we were impervious here in the U.S.

Bruce

Edit: PS - PM me if you'd like to continue the discussion.
um ok mr english professor

you got caught with your guard down and you have taken action that accomplished zero
mission is not acomplished

do you really think its safer in Afghanistan now?
have you helped the average Iraqi on the street?
not really
infact most Iraqis want you out
and you spent over 800 billion fighting an winnable war
when your own people are dying of hunger and below the poverty line
what kind of action is that?

and if you really believe all this
well i have a list of about 100 nations who have dictators
when do we start with number 3?
or is it just the nations who have tons of oil?
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      08-29-2008, 01:09 PM   #43
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Do you not understand what "subjective" means dumb ass? It means non-slanted or non-opinionated. How can you disagree with a subjective review?

I never once stated that I bought into the media's take on the war in Iraq or our involvement in the middle east. My information comes directly from buddies that have served in the military.
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      08-29-2008, 01:32 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXM32B View Post
Do you not understand what "subjective" means dumb ass? It means non-slanted or non-opinionated. How can you disagree with a subjective review?

I never once stated that I bought into the media's take on the war in Iraq or our involvement in the middle east. My information comes directly from buddies that have served in the military.

the same people in the millitary who are trained so say
"SIR YES SIR" ?
funnily enough, the media's take on the issue is exactly the same as your friends in the millitary

don't get me wrong
i have a lot of respect for people in the millitary
i just don't agree with the crap they are being fed, the whole "we are fighting for the freedom of your fellow americans , blah blah blah"
and i feel very sorry for the people who die over there
needlessly in my opinion


oh so if i claim my statements are subjective
you can no longer disagree with them?
interesting idea
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