Dinan stoppers...

[synclastica_86]

I'm looking into the Dinan/Brembo front and rear brakes for my E92 M3. I can't decide between the cross-drilled or the slotted options. What difference will that make? What should I go with?

BTW, my ride is Artic White, so the blacks will look better right?

[JEllis]

Are you looking to just improve the looks or are you actually unhappy with the BMW brakes.

Jason

[TLud]

I'm probably either paranoid or misinformed or both, but I've always been wary of cross-drilled rotors and the potential for cracking. If you're just going to be using these on the street, however, that probably isn't a concern with a quality cross-drilled rotor. There are different performance benefits to each, and it depends on what you're using the car for and what kind of pads you're running.

Comparing otherwise identical rotors, the cross-drilled will be lighter than the slotted, which helps get rid of unsprung weight. I've also read that cross-drilled rotors work slightly better in the rain/wet.

[icemang17]

unless you do SERIOUS track work & your driving style is hard on brakes...you don't need a BBK......but they sure do look cool!

BUT for $7645......DAMM thats STEEP

[Radiation Joe]

If you are serious about stopping power and don't seem to be able to get by with the original equipment, both Performance Friction and Alcon produce superior systems to Brembo and Stoptech. These are not "off-the-shelf" systems and must be properly configured for your car (you have to know what you are doing). This assumes that you are looking for ultimate braking performance and not ease of installation and bling factor.

[GT3 Tim]

Radiation Joe -- Curious why you think Alcon and PF are better than StopTech? Spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Radiation Joe -- Curious why you think Alcon and PF are better than StopTech? Spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know.

Performance Friction:
Used by NASCAR, CART, etc. Only BBK that isn't a BBK; the rotors are stock size (for the e46). This company knows what they are doing.

Alcon:
To be honest I though PTG used them on their cars, but a review shows they run Brembos (at least they used to).

I really don't have a good argument why PF or Alcon are any better or worse than Brembo or Stoptech. And I won't put up some BS argument to try to convince anyone that they are. My gut feeling is towards the PF and Alcon set-ups. I've heard about issues with Stoptech calipers flexing, but this is unsubstantiated. In fact when I started searching the internet, my impression of Stoptech improved.

Some good discussions can be found at the link below. Read through the thread as a lot of good information is presented. A search on Google can provide some enlightenment. As a person that doesn't and hasn't run a BBK, I should just bow out of this conversation as I'm just muddying the water with my ignorance. Sorry.

AudiWorld brake discussion

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by icemang17

unless you do SERIOUS track work & your driving style is hard on brakes...you don't need a BBK......but they sure do look cool!

BUT for $7645......DAMM thats STEEP

Is the dinan setup 380mm front and rear? I'm wondering what dealer cost would be on these?

[BCMPOWER]

Radiation Joe, I agree PF brakes are the best you can get on the market for the simple fact that they are the same equipment used on race cars. The ZR28 calipers are the ones directly taken from CART race cars. However they are very expensive and only for limited applications. Since they don't really make vehicle specific parts it is not a simple bolt on as brembo or stoptech. For the OP I feel he is looking for more of the look and feel of a BBK and not the supreme stopping power and reliability to the PF brakes. The Dinan Brembo package will probally work best for the OP, slotted for hard braking and longevity, drilled for wieght savings and look. However for normal use and limited track drilled will work fine.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

What difference will that make?

NONE - except for looks unles syou race the car on a track a lot.


oh - I guess the difference would be the debit to your bank account.

[knifegun]

Brembos are used by the BMW F1 team.

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Performance Friction:
Used by NASCAR, CART, etc. Only BBK that isn't a BBK; the rotors are stock size (for the e46). This company knows what they are doing.

Alcon:
To be honest I though PTG used them on their cars, but a review shows they run Brembos (at least they used to).

I really don't have a good argument why PF or Alcon are any better or worse than Brembo or Stoptech. And I won't put up some BS argument to try to convince anyone that they are. My gut feeling is towards the PF and Alcon set-ups. I've heard about issues with Stoptech calipers flexing, but this is unsubstantiated. In fact when I started searching the internet, my impression of Stoptech improved.

Some good discussions can be found at the link below. Read through the thread as a lot of good information is presented. A search on Google can provide some enlightenment. As a person that doesn't and hasn't run a BBK, I should just bow out of this conversation as I'm just muddying the water with my ignorance. Sorry.

AudiWorld brake discussion

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by knifegun

Brembos are used by the BMW F1 team.

Ha. Ha. Very funny.

I'll call up Bimmerworld and ask for a set of F1 Brembos. Do you really think the Brembos you can buy have anything in common with the ones used in F1? That's like saying your M3 has an F1 V8 in it.

[synclastica_86]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Are you looking to just improve the looks or are you actually unhappy with the BMW brakes.

Jason

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

If you are serious about stopping power and don't seem to be able to get by with the original equipment, both Performance Friction and Alcon produce superior systems to Brembo and Stoptech. These are not "off-the-shelf" systems and must be properly configured for your car (you have to know what you are doing). This assumes that you are looking for ultimate braking performance and not ease of installation and bling factor.

Well this is what I am doing: I want to begin some modification on my E92. Above anything else, I'm most concerned with the handling. Power always comes second. I am not an expert tuner, and I just want a place to start, thus the breaks.

[IWC Doppel]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Well this is what I am doing: I want to begin some modification on my E92. Above anything else, I'm most concerned with the handling. Power always comes second. I am not an expert tuner, and I just want a place to start, thus the breaks.

For me I would order aftermarket brakes in the following order

Brembo
AP Racing
Other branded AP or Brembo's (eg Dinan I suspect)

Large gap

Stoptech
Alcon

After that I would tread very carefully

I am awaiting the AP Racing kit available soon

[badfish]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I really don't have a good argument why PF or Alcon are any better or worse than Brembo or Stoptech. And I won't put up some BS argument to try to convince anyone that they are. My gut feeling is towards the PF and Alcon set-ups. I've heard about issues with Stoptech calipers flexing, but this is unsubstantiated. In fact when I started searching the internet, my impression of Stoptech improved.

Thanks for being straightforward and honest in your opinions, always appreciated. However, when it comes to Stoptech flexing that is a rumor I believe we can put to rest. As it's been proven that Brembo flexes more, Stoptech has a bridge that minimizes deflection so Stoptech does in fact flex less than Brembo. Not just a little stiffer, but twice as stiff! But Brembo would argue and quite rightfully so that flexing is not an issue with their calipers so there a point where it's good enough. So if people are complaining that Stoptech flexes, those same people should be complaining that Brembo flexes. In truth, they both have some amount of deflection but it would be insignificant. We're really getting into diminishing returns.

[synclastica_86]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

NONE - except for looks unles syou race the car on a track a lot.


oh - I guess the difference would be the debit to your bank account.

They cost exactly the same. The description is the same. The only difference is one have holes drilled and the other doesn't. What is the difference? Does the cross drilled cool faster? But don't you want your breaks up to temperature to work? Isn't that what F1 cars do?

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Ha. Ha. Very funny.

I'll call up Bimmerworld and ask for a set of F1 Brembos. Do you really think the Brembos you can buy have anything in common with the ones used in F1? That's like saying your M3 has an F1 V8 in it.

Give him a break... that is exactly how BMW and brembo wants him to think! All I can say is "great going BMW... it worked!"

[KINGLEH]

Joe.... dont think just because stoptech and brembo offer a 'basic' setup for our cars makes them less of a company...

they could also setup equal systems to be just as efficient and balanced... like PF would...


when it gets down to it... its really just about how much $ u wanna spend...

[sayemthree]

did someone say F1? yeah CF disks and pads - BIG difference$$$$$$$$$$$$

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by badfish

Thanks for being straightforward and honest in your opinions, always appreciated. However, when it comes to Stoptech flexing that is a rumor I believe we can put to rest. As it's been proven that Brembo flexes more, Stoptech has a bridge that minimizes deflection so Stoptech does in fact flex less than Brembo. Not just a little stiffer, but twice as stiff! But Brembo would argue and quite rightfully so that flexing is not an issue with their calipers so there a point where it's good enough. So if people are complaining that Stoptech flexes, those same people should be complaining that Brembo flexes. In truth, they both have some amount of deflection but it would be insignificant. We're really getting into diminishing returns.

Good information. An obsession with flex can absolutely be a case where the law of diminishing returns come into play. Especially when in the realm of a street car that you take on the track. I have often pondered the question of who makes "the best" BBK and it sounds like you have pondered the exact same thing. It even sounds like you can point to some testing with real data, which I would love to see. Do you have a reference? Heck any reference to any actual comparisons among the major suppliers would be great. Perhaps I am getting too OT here but heck this happens all the time in a good discussion. So here goes.... I'd love to see a thorough test of a bunch of BBKs for a particular car. Perhaps the order of which system is "best" would not be identical if you changed vehicles, so you would have to just pick a car. Anyway some great criteria to use (not in any particular order) would be the following:

• Weight
• Fade resistance
• Temperature gain during stops (which is related but not identical to the bullet point above)
• Swept area
• Cold stopping distances
• Hot stopping distances
• Brake feel/modulation
• Brake balance (front/rear)
• Variety of pads available (from street to track day to race)
• Amount of brake dusting (not a big deal for race guys but for any one who gives even a tiny crap about looks and maintenance this is factor)
• Longevity
• Ease of pad changes
• Ease of other maintenance
• Required rim diameter

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

did someone say F1? yeah CF disks and pads - BIG difference$$$$$$$$$$$$

Carbon-Carbon NOT Carbon fiber. COMPLETELY difference materials!

[badfish]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Good information. An obsession with flex can absolutely be a case where the law of diminishing returns come into play. Especially when in the realm of a street car that you take on the track. I have often pondered the question of who makes "the best" BBK and it sounds like you have pondered the exact same thing. It even sounds like you can point to some testing with real data, which I would love to see. Do you have a reference? Heck any reference to any actual comparisons among the major suppliers would be great. Perhaps I am getting too OT here but heck this happens all the time in a good discussion. So here goes.... I'd love to see a thorough test of a bunch of BBKs for a particular car. Perhaps the order of which system is "best" would not be identical if you changed vehicles, so you would have to just pick a car. Anyway some great criteria to use (not in any particular order) would be the following:

I'll have to find the hardcopies of the materials I picked up while I was at the Stoptech production facilities. I did find this on their website but doesn't have the charts that I have in the materials I picked up. The charts and graphs might be buried in their technical information section somewhere. This isn't a point of contention with Brembo either, I read a thread once where a Brembo engineer acknowledged this but was quick to point out that deflection was never an issue with their brakes. Given their track success and following, that's hard to argue with.

Stoptech differentiates their kits by offering packages which they feel are more balanced. They pride their kits on offering more combinations of piston sizes, the ST60 front kit has 19 different piston diameter combinations. The competition has a lot less. Head of engineer Steve Ruiz drove my car and his focus was on delivering a package for the M3 that was balanced. So instead of just making it fit, they picked calipers with a piston diameter combination that would work best based on their testing. I wanted a big 14" rotor in the rear like the Brembos have but it Steve said it was unnecessary and didn't make sense and it would affect the bias. So instead of a 380mm rotor like you get with the Brembo kit, I have a 355mm which is thicker than the Brembo rotor by 4mm. The front is a 380mm rotor though.

To be honest, I just looked at the offerings from Brembo, Stoptech and Rotora. I was offered the sponsorship deal from Brembo for Bimmerfest. Rotora I quickly scratched off my list because from the advice of many racers with firsthand experience.

UPDATE: I found some information on the caliper stiffness here.

Though they don't specify the manufacturers below, you can bet one of them was Brembo.



An illustration of the bridge.

[McLuVan]

I prefer the looks of slotted