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      08-22-2008, 10:22 PM   #1
skierman64
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First day on the track with my E92 M3 DCT

I previously drove a E36 M3 on the track, however today was my first day on the track with my E92. All I can say is wow. What a car. I'm extremely impressed and so are the instructors that rode with me. The engine pulls like a freight train, the brakes are unbelievably strong and are a good match for the never ending power from the engine. The handling/cornering is rock solid and very neutral. Just a slight bit of understeer, but that can be controlled. I'm used to running on R-compound tires and therefore the PS2 while very track worthy becomes a slight limitation on the track, just as any street tire would be.

I ran in M-mode with MDM, S-5, Sport pedal, sport steering.

I'm running Thunderbolt raceway in NJ. I did experience the no downshift issue with the DCT. It especially happens at the end of the front straight where I brake from about 125-130ish to about 60 or 70. It would simply ignore my requests for a downshift. However, after turn-in, while cornering near the limit of adhesion it would let me downshift. Luckily, the downshifts are so smooth that downshifting in a corner does not upset the chassis at all. Seem strange it won't let me downshift in a straight line, but it will in a high G corner. At the end of the back stretch, it usually let me downshift 4-3 at the end of that straight, I didn't get ignored on the backstretch much. Backstretch braking is from about 110-60ish. I don't know why it didn't do it on the backstretch but almost always on the front stretch.

The only other issue is the brake pedal is a bit soft. I know it can be fixed by bleeding the front brakes. However no loss of brake effectiveness, I simply let the brake fluid get too hot.

It's a great car, very, very fun to drive at 9 to 10/10ths.

EDIT 8/26/08: Here's the link to the video from the weekend, posted in the video section: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166409
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Last edited by skierman64; 08-26-2008 at 02:39 PM.
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      08-23-2008, 12:00 PM   #2
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I told you you would be impressed!
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      08-23-2008, 03:59 PM   #3
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Great to hear!!! Did you use the stock pads?

So when is the video getting put up?

thanks,
TomK
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      08-23-2008, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
I previously drove a E36 M3 on the track, however today was my first day on the track with my E92. All I can say is wow. What a car. I'm extremely impressed and so are the instructors what rode with me. The engine pulls like a freight train, the brakes are unbelievably strong and are a good match for the never ending power from the engine. The handling/cornering is rock solid and very neutral. Just a slight bit of understeer, but that can be controlled. I'm used to running on R-compound tires and therefore the PS2 while very track worthy becomes a slight limitation on the track, just as any street tire would be.

I ran in M-mode with MDM, S-5, Sport pedal, sport steering.

I'm running Thunderbolt raceway in NJ. I did experience the no downshift issue with the DCT. It especially happens at the end of the front straight where I brake from about 125-130ish to about 60 or 70. It would simply ignore my requests for a downshift. However, after turn-in, while cornering near the limit of adhesion it would let me downshift. Luckily, the downshifts are so smooth that downshifting in a corner does not upset the chassis at all. Seem strange it won't let me downshift in a straight line, but it will in a high G corner. At the end of the back stretch, it usually let me downshift 4-3 at the end of that straight, I didn't get ignored on the backstretch much. Backstretch braking is from about 110-60ish. I don't know why it didn't do it on the backstretch but almost always on the front stretch.

The only other issue is the brake pedal is a bit soft. I know it can be fixed by bleeding the front brakes. However no loss of brake effectiveness, I simply let the brake fluid get too hot.

It's a great car, very, very fun to drive at 9 to 10/10ths.
I wonder if it in some way connected to the ABS system, it seems to only happen under really heavy braking?
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      08-23-2008, 08:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I told you you would be impressed!
I am very, very impressed, it's amazing how the car hides it's weight. It is so balanced in the turns. As soon as the DCT downshifting problem is fixed the car will be perfect for the track.

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Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
Great to hear!!! Did you use the stock pads?

So when is the video getting put up?

thanks,
TomK
Yes, I'm driving with the stock pads, with no fading at all. As a reference, my front stretch speeds are at or close to 140 and I'm having to slow to about 70 for the first corner. There are 5 other braking zones on the 2.1 mile track. I have hours of video, which I will post sometime next week. One more day of driving tomorrow. Which means more video tomorrow.

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I wonder if it in some way connected to the ABS system, it seems to only happen under really heavy braking?
I'm not into the ABS when it rejects my downshift command. This better be fixed soon. The September software update better fix this or I'll be very dissapointed. Larry Koch, are you reading this? This is unacceptable for a performace car.
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      08-23-2008, 08:48 PM   #6
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Nice write-up, to the point.

How were the outside temps, session length, and were you on stock brake fluid?

Downshift: It is awkward it prevents a shift in a straight line, hoping the same that the issue gets resolved.
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      08-24-2008, 01:16 AM   #7
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I bet yur high school enlish teacher aint so impressed!!!

"and so are the instructors what rode with me" LOL!!!
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      08-24-2008, 02:48 PM   #8
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Does any of you know who this is?



Goes by the name of SFBimmer13.
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      08-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Does any of you know who this is?



Goes by the name of SFBimmer13.
that would be me

Laguna Seca was great - I was about to post the video in a separate thread...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166057
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      08-24-2008, 04:31 PM   #10
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That's a total threadjack, but thanks for the video. It should help get me through until mine shows up around the end of October/early November.

After hearing all the horror stories about no downshift from DCT under heavy braking, I'm wondering if anyone has tried a track session in D5?
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      08-24-2008, 04:49 PM   #11
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Skierman, hurry up and get your videos on here!
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      08-24-2008, 10:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
I bet yur high school enlish teacher aint so impressed!!!

"and so are the instructors what rode with me" LOL!!!
Fixed, thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure how I missed that on the proof reading prior to hitting send.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
That's a total threadjack, but thanks for the video. It should help get me through until mine shows up around the end of October/early November.

After hearing all the horror stories about no downshift from DCT under heavy braking, I'm wondering if anyone has tried a track session in D5?
Of course it will downshift in D5, however it won't downshift prior to the turn, it will downshift as your passing the apex of the turn and getting into the gas, which is a bad, bad idea, because as gears go down the torque to wheels increases and you could suddenly be drifting unintentionally as the sudden increase of power to the rear wheels breaks them loose.

My compensation for the no downshift issue was to downshift between the turn in point and the apex as I was feathering the throttle, then by the time I reached the apex and got into the throttle, I was in third so I could rocket out of the corner into the next turn.

As I said, D would not kick down until after the apex, as the accelerator pedal goes down, that's not a good plan.

Here's to hoping the September software update fixes this DCT issue.
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      08-25-2008, 03:27 AM   #13
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Here's to hoping the September software update fixes this DCT issue.
My car is due for collection on the 1st of September, once it's run-in I will try and recreate the conditions and see if it will downshift or not.
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      08-25-2008, 06:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
My car is due for collection on the 1st of September, once it's run-in I will try and recreate the conditions and see if it will downshift or not.
It would be good to know if the European software is different than the North American software in regards to the downshifting issue. If the European software allows downshifting under threshold braking, it certainly would be a positive thing as at least we would know for sure that a software update is all that's required to fix this issue.
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      08-25-2008, 06:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
It would be good to know if the European software is different than the North American software in regards to the downshifting issue. If the European software allows downshifting under threshold braking, it certainly would be a positive thing as at least we would know for sure that a software update is all that's required to fix this issue.

I have already asked this question and the answer is it still does it. Or at least up to a month or so ago.

I still believe it's something to do with ABS/DSC, even if you are not activating the ABS doesn't not mean it isn't relaying data back.
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      08-25-2008, 08:30 AM   #16
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IIRC, the M-DCT doesn't have the downshifting issue with DSC OFF, right?
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      08-25-2008, 08:48 AM   #17
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IIRC, the M-DCT doesn't have the downshifting issue with DSC OFF, right?
I'm nearly sure Enigma had everything off and it was still there.
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      08-25-2008, 11:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
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IIRC, the M-DCT doesn't have the downshifting issue with DSC OFF, right?
I have tried with S4, S5 and S6 and DSC off - same issue, so I guess that rules out DSC intervention causing the downshift issue...
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      08-25-2008, 11:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
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IIRC, the M-DCT doesn't have the downshifting issue with DSC OFF, right?
wrong.
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      08-25-2008, 12:26 PM   #20
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Wow, in a way I'm glad DSC off doesn't solve the issue because I would have been pissed at myself for not trying it.

I ran MDM mode the entire time except one time I ran a few laps in normal DSC when I forgot to hit the M button befoe going out on the track. The DSC light was on a lot in normal DSC.
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      08-25-2008, 01:32 PM   #21
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Even with the system off, it still monitors what the car is doing from the background. One thing you can't do is turn off ABS and it works in combination with traction control to form the system called DSC.

As I said it never totally turns off.
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      08-26-2008, 01:05 PM   #22
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Skier is mad fast on the track! Your car looked great and very solid on the track (great racing line). The sound of the 4.0 on the back straight was pure music. Most muffled cars were difficult to hear, but from the observation deck I could hear your car singing away.

Get the vids posted up! Great to meet you and your family over a really nice weekend. BMWCCA really knows how to put on an event.
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