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      08-20-2008, 05:32 PM   #1
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American Missile Defense Shield vs. Russia.. WWIII??

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...zVeFrts-owNltw

US insists on the shield, Russia claims the shield is geared against russia..

with the whole Europe/NATO/US/Georgia vs. Russia, is the world heading towards a new cold war, or a new world war?

what about china? are they in favor of more super power in the region, or they're okay as long as they are "a" super power and that the US isnt the only player.

thoughts??
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      08-20-2008, 05:52 PM   #2
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A missile defense system is by its very nature a defensive system that poses no threat to anyone else. The system proposed for Europe is clearly designed to defend against a rogue state such as Iran and is incapable of handling what the Russians possess.

The agreement with Poland allows for 10 interceptor missiles. Each missile is designed to intercept a single warhead which makes it little threat to Russia's 500+ ICBM's.
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      08-20-2008, 05:54 PM   #3
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oh let me be clear since the beginning. this thread is not about the reasoning behind the shield and whether it's a legitimate cause or not. the shield will be built regardless. the shield itself has been discussed for years now.

the question is what happens now?

but thanks for the info ganeil... do u expect the days of cold war to be back, or some nuke action or what?

Russia has explicitly threatened poland indicating Poland has put herself as a russian target "100%"
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      08-20-2008, 06:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
oh let me be clear since the beginning. this thread is not about the reasoning behind the shield and whether it's a legitimate cause or not. the shield will be built regardless. the shield itself has been discussed for years now.

the question is what happens now?

but thanks for the info ganeil... do u expect the days of cold war to be back, or some nuke action or what?

Russia has explicitly threatened poland indicating Poland has put herself as a russian target "100%"
No, I do not see a return to the Cold War. One reason is that this is not a situation where two competing ideologies at work now. The Russians are worried about being encircled by NATO and are flexing their petro/military muscles but I do not believe it will go much further (militarily) than what is occurring in Georgia.
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      08-20-2008, 06:10 PM   #5
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the reason why i say that is coz this particular incident reminds us of soviet missiles in Cuba back in the day...

thoughts on Europe/China's reaction to all this?
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      08-20-2008, 06:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
the reason why i say that is coz this particular incident reminds us of soviet missiles in Cuba back in the day...

thoughts on Europe/China's reaction to all this?
Europe's reaction will vary by country. The former Soviet client states will be more supportive, the original NATO members generally less so but will appreciate the protection.

As for China, I think they are more concerned with the system in the Pacific that may complicate a missile attack on Taiwan.
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      08-21-2008, 08:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
the reason why i say that is coz this particular incident reminds us of soviet missiles in Cuba back in the day...
I understand the parallel but there is one difference. The Cuba missles were offensive and the Poland missles are defensive.
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      08-21-2008, 10:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
I understand the parallel but there is one difference. The Cuba missles were offensive and the Poland missles are defensive.
yah but to the russians they're not defensive they're a threat. bottom line is no super power will be happy with a bunch of missiles next to them
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      08-21-2008, 12:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
yah but to the russians they're not defensive they're a threat. bottom line is no super power will be happy with a bunch of missiles next to them
The question is, "Why is Russia so threatened by this system?"

It clearly does not pose a significant threat to their strategic forces so I believe the answer has more to do with the location of the system than the system itself.

Placement of such a strategic American system in Poland and Czech Republic solidifies the position of these former satellites in NATO. That is what has the Russians upset, not the very modest ABM capability.
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      08-21-2008, 12:26 PM   #10
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if china puts a shield in mexico and says it's defense, what's the US gonna do?
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      08-21-2008, 12:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
if china puts a shield in mexico and says it's defense, what's the US gonna do?
Laugh!!!

Why would our missles need to head that way.

Also, they would end up being dismantled and sold as scrap metal within the first two months.
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      08-21-2008, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
Laugh!!!

Why would our missles need to head that way.

Also, they would end up being dismantled and sold as scrap metal within the first two months.
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      08-21-2008, 01:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
if china puts a shield in mexico and says it's defense, what's the US gonna do?
Hmm...look at a globe (not a flat map). Mexico isn't on the way from the US to China. Therefore Chinese defensive missles in Mexico won't work.

In fact US defensive missles in Poland won't protect us from Russian ICBMs since Poland isn't between us and Russia. Beside Russia has enough boomer submarines that they don't need to be concerned about a missle defense system in Poland. They can launch SLBMs a few hundred miles off the shore.

Russia is just sabre rattling.
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      08-21-2008, 03:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
if china puts a shield in mexico and says it's defense, what's the US gonna do?
+100000



Not that a shield in Mexico would help China, but nobody would like it if it was done to them. Russia's complaints are perfectly understandable.
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      08-21-2008, 03:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAaaAR View Post
+100000



Not that a shield in Mexico would help China, but nobody would like it if it was done to them. Russia's complaints are perfectly understandable.
These are defensive missiles, they intercept missiles being shot by someone else. How are the Russian complaints understandable unless they plan to attack Europe?
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      08-21-2008, 03:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
These are defensive missiles, they intercept missiles being shot by someone else. How are the Russian complaints understandable unless they plan to attack Europe?
well coming out in 2008 and say russian wanna attack europe is a hostile act. raising that issue now by itself is very provocative IMHO.

Russia wanted to plant a shield in Syria. Israel said that's a definite no no, altho it's the same concept, defensive. should i ask why israel objects unless israel plans on attacking somebody?

defense missile are still missile, if not today then tomorrow u'll have the offensive one.

this discussion has deviated. im not asking the legitimacy of the shield. it's a fact. done. the question is now what??
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      08-23-2008, 03:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
A missile defense system is by its very nature a defensive system that poses no threat to anyone else. The system proposed for Europe is clearly designed to defend against a rogue state such as Iran and is incapable of handling what the Russians possess.

The agreement with Poland allows for 10 interceptor missiles. Each missile is designed to intercept a single warhead which makes it little threat to Russia's 500+ ICBM's.
Ah, just like our great Department of DEFENSE (our Military) that is purely Defensive nature...
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      08-23-2008, 03:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
These are defensive missiles, they intercept missiles being shot by someone else. How are the Russian complaints understandable unless they plan to attack Europe?
Answer the question you're replying to...

Anyway, Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Georgia, Kosovo, Romania, Afghanistan...lets completely surrender Russia...just for the heck of it...
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      08-23-2008, 03:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post

this discussion has deviated. im not asking the legitimacy of the shield. it's a fact. done. the question is now what??
I believe this will cause tensions and a new "arms race" or whatever race that will serve no good to anyone.

There is absolutely no reason to put these in Poland other than just provoke Russia that complained about this idea years ago...

Just as there is no clear reason for some Kosovo people to start fighting with Serbian Military (that could have crushed them overnight) or for Georgia to start fighting with Russia that could have eaten them in a few hours... Pure provocations where innocent and weak suffer...
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      08-23-2008, 06:46 PM   #20
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There is absolutely no reason to put these in Poland other than just provoke Russia that complained about this idea years ago...

Just as there is no clear reason for some Kosovo people to start fighting with Serbian Military (that could have crushed them overnight) or for Georgia to start fighting with Russia that could have eaten them in a few hours... Pure provocations where innocent and weak suffer...
It really is not that simple. You left out threats from middle eastern regions as well as finacial incentives. Nothing is normally a simple as you suggest.
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      08-23-2008, 07:33 PM   #21
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you guys still discussing the shield... maybe i should re-title the thread. the shield will be a fact soon regardless of reasons. that discussion was years ago, not now.

how do u expect Russia to escalate? do you expect Russia to strike Poland like they have threatened? do you expect intervention from other European nations? do u expect emergence of China in the conflict in an attempt to appear as a super power?
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      08-23-2008, 08:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
how do u expect Russia to escalate? do you expect Russia to strike Poland like they have threatened? do you expect intervention from other European nations? do u expect emergence of China in the conflict in an attempt to appear as a super power?
IMO, the sabre will be sheathed within a month or two for the most part.
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