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      08-11-2008, 01:53 PM   #23
masmole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You feel torque delivered to the wheels (minus losses) divided by vehicle weight. (Hp-losses)/weight is a decent approximation of this in most cases. You also feel "lumpy" torque curves which adds a jerk component and like others said the M3 does not have much of this due to a very flat torque curve.

I'm truly sorry if you are not satisfied with your car.
Exactly! Like swamp said, the torque you're not feeling is mostly due to how flat the M3's torque curve is. It comes on early and stays flat, and of course the rev range seems endless. It's a beautiful thing. You compare it to the ISF and 335i which explains a lot. The ISF has secondaries that open up around 3600 that give that vtec-like surge that you hear and feel then everything tapers off around 6k rpms. It doesn't cover a large rpm range like the M3 because it redlines at only a little over 6k and the torque curve is not as flat either. And now the 335i has two turbos and despite how BMW markets it as being lag-free, there is lag and there most certainly is point where benefits of forced induction can be felt.
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      08-11-2008, 02:43 PM   #24
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You should try it at my elevation, at 4,500ft above sea level on a 90* day. It pulls noticeably slower than an e46 M3 at sea level.
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      08-11-2008, 03:03 PM   #25
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I just got back from testing out the new M3 and it was a whole different machine.

I come from a 335 and the M3 does not have the pull like the 335 I have grown to love.

The V8 is pure bliss.
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      08-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insider View Post
You should try it at my elevation, at 4,500ft above sea level on a 90* day. It pulls noticeably slower than an e46 M3 at sea level.
That's a very helpful comparison.
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      08-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #27
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Its all relativ

my first fast car was a merc clk. it felt incredibly fast after my sub 100 hp cars i had before. next was an m3 e46, a great improvement but the jump was not as big as to the clk. After a few years i felt the m3 did not have a enough power. So i got a porsche 4s. but yet again the improvement was there but not as much as i had hoped. a a few weeks ago i testdrove an m3 coupe, and also was a bit disappointed. it was fast but did not feel so fast. it really only felt fast with the engine being loud above 6000 revs. but the funny thing was, after a few hours driving it and then getting back into the porsche, now the porsche felt slow. so go figure. long story short. unfortunately you get used to acceleration far to quick and need a bigger and bigger meaning faster fix to feel the rush of speed :-) i think that is what you might be suffering of.
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      08-11-2008, 03:14 PM   #28
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Agreed the more comfortable you get with a car the slower it starts to feel. What always helps me with this is to let a friend take it for a ride with you in the passenger seat. Cars feel so much faster again when you're not the one in control of it anymore.
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      08-11-2008, 03:17 PM   #29
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Agreed the more comfortable you get with a car the slower it starts to feel. What always helps me with this is to let a friend take it for a ride with you in the passenger seat. Cars feel so much faster again when you're not the one in control of it anymore.
so true, i get scared shitless when somebody else drives, i think it is because the acceleration comes unexpected.
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      08-11-2008, 04:06 PM   #30
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I just don't get it. I traded my 335 in for a m3. And I feel the M3 pulls way harder than the 335. The only place 335 pulls harder is under 2500 rpms. But if your worried about the torque down there your driving your M totally wrong. 335 is a great car but in my opinion not even in the same league the Ms better in every way.
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      08-11-2008, 04:13 PM   #31
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Thanks for everyones feedback. Just to clarify, I knew what the torque figures were getting into the e92 M3 and expected that the torque would be very smooth and delivered in a linear manner. I still (obviously) love my car but I was just dissapointed compared to the competition.

I also am familiar with an individual getting used to the power of their current vehicle but in my situation, the first time I brought it above 5500rpm is when I kind of felt dissapointed.

It may be a bad comparision (some jokers here may start a flame) but it could be compared to a honda eg: NSX. The NSX is quite fast but looking at the torque figures and getting behind the wheel, it jsut doesn't have that kick.
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      08-11-2008, 04:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotrash8 View Post
Thanks for everyones feedback. Just to clarify, I knew what the torque figures were getting into the e92 M3 and expected that the torque would be very smooth and delivered in a linear manner. I still (obviously) love my car but I was just dissapointed compared to the competition.

I also am familiar with an individual getting used to the power of their current vehicle but in my situation, the first time I brought it above 5500rpm is when I kind of felt dissapointed.

It may be a bad comparision (some jokers here may start a flame) but it could be compared to a honda eg: NSX. The NSX is quite fast but looking at the torque figures and getting behind the wheel, it jsut doesn't have that kick.

If you make it out to T.dot, bring your F430 and I will slap you around with my M6..... which feels slow to me too now and it lacks torque just like the M3.
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      08-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebreeze View Post
I just don't get it. I traded my 335 in for a m3. And I feel the M3 pulls way harder than the 335. The only place 335 pulls harder is under 2500 rpms. But if your worried about the torque down there your driving your M totally wrong. 335 is a great car but in my opinion not even in the same league the Ms better in every way.
+1 - you need to learn how to drive the car. Its a high revving V8, not a hemi. Go drive the E46 M on a track, it will teach you how to extract power out of these motors. Once you understand how they work, its addicting. It makes you work for the power, but its rewarding. Very different than a car where you mash the pedal, get a rush to 5k rpm, then it runs out of breath. 5k is where this car is just getting started...

kinda like a single malt. its an acquired taste
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      08-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #34
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Feeling fast is not necessarily the same thing as being fast. M3 has plenty of torque at the wheels/lb. This has been calculated/plotted/debated to death on this forum.
thank you

it delivers more than a vette, and close to a C63...

gearing rules
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      08-11-2008, 06:01 PM   #35
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A v-8 that revs to the moon.Im in love.
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      08-11-2008, 06:39 PM   #36
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      08-11-2008, 06:58 PM   #37
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If the M3 isn't snapping your neck while accelerating in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd you're doin it wrong.
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      08-11-2008, 09:16 PM   #38
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You should trade in the M for the C63 AMG if you want torque. But you lose the flat torque line and fun high revving engine.
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      08-11-2008, 09:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotrash8 View Post
Thanks for everyones feedback. Just to clarify, I knew what the torque figures were getting into the e92 M3 and expected that the torque would be very smooth and delivered in a linear manner. I still (obviously) love my car but I was just dissapointed compared to the competition.

I also am familiar with an individual getting used to the power of their current vehicle but in my situation, the first time I brought it above 5500rpm is when I kind of felt dissapointed.

It may be a bad comparision (some jokers here may start a flame) but it could be compared to a honda eg: NSX. The NSX is quite fast but looking at the torque figures and getting behind the wheel, it jsut doesn't have that kick.
I sort of understand, but don't fully agree. I just got the car back from the 1200 mile service and started to open her up a bit and the car is crazy fast. The low end doesn't feel as fast as the 335, but the 335 runs out of breath quickly by comparison. The first time I went over 7500 rpm and shifted I was wowed. It caught me off guard, it felt like I wasn't going that fast (I do miss the low end torque of the 335) and suddenly I realized I was going way too fast. By the time 3rd gear comes up the car feels like it's about to take off.

Regular around town driving, I see what you're saying with it not having enough kick. It doesn't feel that fast if you're driving around in traffic and shifting at low rpm.

Last edited by Herms; 08-12-2008 at 01:49 AM.
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      08-11-2008, 09:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Feeling fast is not necessarily the same thing as being fast. M3 has plenty of torque at the wheels/lb. This has been calculated/plotted/debated to death on this forum.
Really? You don't say.....you are suggesting that we have discussed this before

Waiting for someone to do the old
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      08-12-2008, 02:44 AM   #41
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As someone mentioned before, torque you feel is a bump in the torque curve. The feeling of "pull" is due to a high rate of change in acceleration- which is due to a high rate of change in the torque curve.
A good example is a car with a decently large turbo-you feel the rush right as the turbo hits, which looking at a dyno plot is the spot where the torque curve is almost vertical or a steep angle (and rate of change of acceleration is high) Once peak boost is met and the torque curve flattens, the rush is gone even though the rpms continue to climb and horsepower curve continues to climb and the car continues to accelerate (but the acceleration rate is not changing as rapidly).

Sorry, I guess you might not have needed a calculus lesson.
Still can't decide on how to order my M3.
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      08-12-2008, 03:31 AM   #42
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The M3 kept above 5,000 rpm is just astonishing!
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      08-12-2008, 07:14 AM   #43
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I continue to be amazed by the flexability of the S65 engine.With its flat torque curve you can run around all day in town with more than enough power without ever going above 3-4000 rpm.It pulls well enough from about 1500 that you do not need to be doing a whole lot of shifting if you do not want to.But the best part is what that motor feels like above 5000 rpm to 8400.That is so special and it still amazes me after 10000 kms.There is no lack of useable torque in this powerplant!
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      08-12-2008, 11:11 AM   #44
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it all comes down to what you are used to driving. Your experience may vary from others and is somewhat subjective. Once you realize what your expectations should be at then you should be ok. This is a car that is designed to be great above 5k and poised in the lower rpms.
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