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      08-10-2008, 09:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
...republican slime... Why did your god let 3k americans die on 9/11?

Go for the ad hominem, I sure will.
I am not a religous person, and I am not really ussually one to enter into these types of arguments, heck, I have never even come into this section of the forums before...
... but I thought it interesting that whenever something bad happens, God gets blamed...

People died that day at the hand of other men, excersizing their free will.

I find it interesting also that a beleif in God is linked with being "republican"... where actually, if you look back into the bible, where the record of when God suposedly walked the earth as Jesus... he was one of the most radical, anti-religous, anti-government people... so much so that it was the religous political people that actually crucified him. He was not killed by atheists, or "non-religous" people... he was killed by the very people that were meant to worship him.

I think a lot of so called "christians" these days have it messed up... they go around wearing WWJD bracelets thinking that is going to change the world, yet they just point fingers at people that don't beleive the same as them, calling them evil, and damn everyone to hell... is that really what Jesus would do?

Maybe God sent me to post this here, who knows... All I know is that there is SO MUCH in this world that we do NOT understand, science is based on just as much faith as a beleif in a creator... and the more we discover, the more we relize how complex our world actually is. Its a beautiful and complex universe, and a beleif that something exists beyond what we know, whether it be spiritual, alien, or just "unkown", is to accept that we are human.... limited... small, and non-existent without whatever it is that actually gives us life.

A living body is not just a some of its parts... there is something inside of us, life, breath, spirit, whatever you want to call it... but we will never be able to explain why it is that we have the capacity that we do... the capacity to CREATE, the capacity to LIVE, the capacity to DIE.... and the capacity to bring life or death to others...

There are powers at work in this universe that no man can explain, and the day you can explain that to me, is the day that I will no longer beleive in some sort of "God"... whether it be the one described in the bible, or otherwise.

Maybe a beleif in God is more about the acceptance that something larger in this world exists than us, and even though we have a free will to screw it all up, and kill, and destroy eachother... maybe there is a creator that will judge our hearts one day, and those that went against Gods will, will be judged accordingly.

Am I saying this is 100% truth? Nope... just saying that nobody really knows... and if I use my time on this earth to truly love and care for others, giving my all to do everything it my stregth to make this world a better place by helping those in need, not just thriving in my own selfish existance, then at least I can die knowing that the mark I left on this world was a good one, and if there is a God that I meet when I die, He will be proud of what I accomplished with the life I was given.

just my 2c...

Last edited by RiXst3r; 08-10-2008 at 09:51 AM. Reason: typo
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      08-10-2008, 09:31 AM   #24
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Thanks for taking the time for the read ........... well put .........
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      08-10-2008, 02:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoKids View Post
to answser your question, here are some possibilities...

A) there is no god

B) god doesn't give out justice, life does. so if a guy is a murderer he will be killed by the people he has affected. justice will come to him without intervention by god.
if he is so powerful that he kills all his enemies and dies of old age and never faces justice, then he won. unless he has a conscience which bites at him every day until he dies, justice will never come to this man.

C) there's no such thing as evil, there's no such thing as good. humans give labels to many things, so maybe god (if he does exist) does not intervene because good and evil to him are not important.
Now, thats a "thinking" man's response.
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      08-10-2008, 02:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
... but I thought it interesting that whenever something bad happens, God gets blamed...
The point I was trying to make is that ďgodĒ is a human invention and it doesnít exist. I would NEVER blame Dumbledore for 9/11 either. Heís fictional too.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
People died that day at the hand of other men, excersizing their free will.
True.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
where actually, if you look back into the bible, where the record of when God suposedly walked the earth as Jesus... .

Bible is a man-made, ancient, contradictory, on-purpose-ambiguous, morally-outdated book.


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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
All I know is that there is SO MUCH in this world that we do NOT understand, science is based on just as much faith as a beleif in a creator... .
This is a ridiculous statement that I would expect to come from a pulpit. Science makes claims to truth by its ability to make matter and energy jump through hoops on command, and to predict what will happen and when.

Religions contradict one another and the physical world we live in.


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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
and the more we discover, the more we relize how complex our world actually is. Its a beautiful and complex universe, and a beleif that something exists beyond what we know, whether it be spiritual, alien, or just "unkown", is to accept that we are human.... limited... small, and non-existent without whatever it is that actually gives us life..
Spoken like a true scientist. Nicely done.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
A living body is not just a some of its parts... there is something inside of us, life, breath, spirit, whatever you want to call it... but we will never be able to explain why it is that we have the capacity that we do... the capacity to CREATE, the capacity to LIVE, the capacity to DIE.... and the capacity to bring life or death to others.....
You messed up here big time. You made huge claims here based on a hunch. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. You provide none.

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There are powers at work in this universe that no man can explain, and the day you can explain that to me, is the day that I will no longer beleive in some sort of "God"... whether it be the one described in the bible, or otherwise.
So we should just give up and pray, right?

We donít know YET, but we have our brightest minds working on it around the clock. Whether we benefit from answers is up to us, not science. Science is NOT a body of knowledge, it's a way of thinking critically.


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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Maybe a beleif in God is more about the acceptance that something larger in this world exists than us, and even though we have a free will to screw it all up, and kill, and destroy eachother... maybe there is a creator that will judge our hearts one day, and those that went against Gods will, will be judged accordingly.
Well, that's where you are wrong. It's not a belief in "a" God, it's a belief in "the" God. If you worship a different god you go to hell for eternity.

Do you believe that 1.5 billion Muslim are going to hell?


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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Am I saying this is 100% truth? Nope... just saying that nobody really knows... and if I use my time on this earth to truly love and care for others, giving my all to do everything it my stregth to make this world a better place by helping those in need, not just thriving in my own selfish existance, then at least I can die knowing that the mark I left on this world was a good one, and if there is a God that I meet when I die, He will be proud of what I accomplished with the life I was given.

just my 2c...
Well said. This is exactly what agnostic humanism talks about.
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      08-10-2008, 05:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
The point I was trying to make is that “god” is a human invention and it doesn’t exist. I would NEVER blame Dumbledore for 9/11 either. He’s fictional too.



True.




Bible is a man-made, ancient, contradictory, on-purpose-ambiguous, morally-outdated book.




This is a ridiculous statement that I would expect to come from a pulpit. Science makes claims to truth by its ability to make matter and energy jump through hoops on command, and to predict what will happen and when.

Religions contradict one another and the physical world we live in.




Spoken like a true scientist. Nicely done.



You messed up here big time. You made huge claims here based on a hunch. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. You provide none.



So we should just give up and pray, right?

We don’t know YET, but we have our brightest minds working on it around the clock. Whether we benefit from answers is up to us, not science. Science is NOT a body of knowledge, it's a way of thinking critically.




Well, that's where you are wrong. It's not a belief in "a" God, it's a belief in "the" God. If you worship a different god you go to hell for eternity.

Do you believe that 1.5 billion Muslim are going to hell?




Well said. This is exactly what agnostic humanism talks about.
You put a lot of words in my mouth with your reply... like you are expecting me to beleive something you disagree with...

My point is that you don't know everything that exists. PERIOD. Nobody knows... and to deny the fact that something exists that is larger and more powerful than us is saying otherwise.

Science doesn't know. PERIOD. Really? Ya, really... notice how everything science has to explain unkown origins of the world and nature is all a "theory". Sure its based on facts... but its based on what we "know"... and if we can agree that we don't "know" everything... then beleiving the theory of a scientist takes as much faith as beleiving the theory of a creationist.

I remember being in school and being shown all this stuff about a big explosion, and monkeys, and everything else that is taught to children about where we come from... me, being a scientific mind, even at a young age, needing to know how everything works, and how everything came to be, asked TONS of questions... and every answer was the same... its a "theory"... monkeys? well, ya, we evolved... see this chart of monkey men... so.. ok, then why is there a "missing link"? Am I just supposed to beleive this without that link? Where are these middle monkey men? if monkeys are still here, why are the middle ones not still here?

Ok.... then they teach big bang... whatever... so an explosion created everything... I thought you just told me about the first law of thermodynamics... nothing can be created from nothing... its a law, right? ok.... so, here I am, a confused child... thinking to myself... people really beleive this crap?

Then there is the other side, that says that God did it all, and we are just to trust blindly that he will take care of us... um... OK, well, at least in this scenario its explained with a neat story, and a book... the problem is that this book was written by 20 different people over centuries of time... its amazing that anything at all lines up...

and now, I choose to beleive that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.

A lot of people deny that anything larger or more powerful then us exists because they live lives that are such a discusting moral cespool, that the thought of anyone "looking down on them" scares the shit of of them, and they beleive what they have to beleive to justify their actions.

Does religion cause a lot of problems? Yes... but in my mind, that is because religion is not so much about faith anymore to religous people, but its more about culture, and rituals... its outdated, ritualistic, human created religous nonsense... but that doesnt mean that God doesn't exist... it just means that people are idiots.

Faith is the beleif in that which cannot be seen. Science explains things using events or objects that cannot be seen, have not been seen, and will probably never be seen.... therefore it requires faith... or "trust" in the scientific thoery. Everyone lives with faith, its the draw of the human mind... to search for our purpose, to "understand"... and its this faith, or "hope" if you want to call it by another word, that drives science, just as much as it drives religion. The "hope" that what we do here is not a waste, not for nothing... because the moment stop searching, happens to still be the same moment in which we die.

So I know what you DON'T beleive in, you made that very clear... so what do you beleive? I am seriosuly interested to here your theory on the world, our purpose here, etc..., rather than just hear you bash other peoples opinion.

Your are not a TRUE ctitical thinker unless you can critisize both ends of the spectrum... and fully understand both sides as well.. and I don't just mean based on what some religous wacko apparently pushed on you at some point in your life, but actually looking for yourself.

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      08-10-2008, 05:29 PM   #28
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I'm not going to read the thread, because my IQ would probably drop by 20 points doing that, but I'll simply respond to the OP. Ever heard of free will? Rather important concept.
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      08-11-2008, 11:25 AM   #29
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I think these types of threads are ones that shouldn't be allowed here. The topic wasn't even stating anything other the an opinion of beliefs on an extremely sensitive subject.

Why some people have such a HUGE problem with people believing in a higher being is beyond me. Just let us believe, and go on with your life. If it brings comfort and stability to some of us (errr....the majority of the world) big deal.

It's the extremists of each type of religion that take things to levels they shouldn't.
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      08-11-2008, 11:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
You put a lot of words in my mouth with your reply... like you are expecting me to beleive something you disagree with...

My point is that you don't know everything that exists. PERIOD. Nobody knows... and to deny the fact that something exists that is larger and more powerful than us is saying otherwise.

Science doesn't know. PERIOD. Really? Ya, really... notice how everything science has to explain unkown origins of the world and nature is all a "theory". Sure its based on facts... but its based on what we "know"... and if we can agree that we don't "know" everything... then beleiving the theory of a scientist takes as much faith as beleiving the theory of a creationist.

I remember being in school and being shown all this stuff about a big explosion, and monkeys, and everything else that is taught to children about where we come from... me, being a scientific mind, even at a young age, needing to know how everything works, and how everything came to be, asked TONS of questions... and every answer was the same... its a "theory"... monkeys? well, ya, we evolved... see this chart of monkey men... so.. ok, then why is there a "missing link"? Am I just supposed to beleive this without that link? Where are these middle monkey men? if monkeys are still here, why are the middle ones not still here?

Ok.... then they teach big bang... whatever... so an explosion created everything... I thought you just told me about the first law of thermodynamics... nothing can be created from nothing... its a law, right? ok.... so, here I am, a confused child... thinking to myself... people really beleive this crap?

Then there is the other side, that says that God did it all, and we are just to trust blindly that he will take care of us... um... OK, well, at least in this scenario its explained with a neat story, and a book... the problem is that this book was written by 20 different people over centuries of time... its amazing that anything at all lines up...

and now, I choose to beleive that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.

A lot of people deny that anything larger or more powerful then us exists because they live lives that are such a discusting moral cespool, that the thought of anyone "looking down on them" scares the shit of of them, and they beleive what they have to beleive to justify their actions.

Does religion cause a lot of problems? Yes... but in my mind, that is because religion is not so much about faith anymore to religous people, but its more about culture, and rituals... its outdated, ritualistic, human created religous nonsense... but that doesnt mean that God doesn't exist... it just means that people are idiots.

Faith is the beleif in that which cannot be seen. Science explains things using events or objects that cannot be seen, have not been seen, and will probably never be seen.... therefore it requires faith... or "trust" in the scientific thoery. Everyone lives with faith, its the draw of the human mind... to search for our purpose, to "understand"... and its this faith, or "hope" if you want to call it by another word, that drives science, just as much as it drives religion. The "hope" that what we do here is not a waste, not for nothing... because the moment stop searching, happens to still be the same moment in which we die.

So I know what you DON'T beleive in, you made that very clear... so what do you beleive? I am seriosuly interested to here your theory on the world, our purpose here, etc..., rather than just hear you bash other peoples opinion.

Your are not a TRUE ctitical thinker unless you can critisize both ends of the spectrum... and fully understand both sides as well.. and I don't just mean based on what some religous wacko apparently pushed on you at some point in your life, but actually looking for yourself.
Great post.

I actually belive the OP has the greatest potential to end up turning to religion later in life. A larger number of converts had the same mentality, even more negative.

I have no problem with the OP or any other who share his beliefs....but it sure does make me question how happy they are as a whole.
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      08-11-2008, 12:37 PM   #31
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I think these types of threads are ones that shouldn't be allowed here. The topic wasn't even stating anything other the an opinion of beliefs on an extremely sensitive subject.

Why some people have such a HUGE problem with people believing in a higher being is beyond me. Just let us believe, and go on with your life. If it brings comfort and stability to some of us (errr....the majority of the world) big deal.

It's the extremists of each type of religion that take things to levels they shouldn't.
Maybe because some of those beliefs are trickling down to other (non-believer) people's lives -- like proposals to teach intelligent design in schools and ban evolution approach, like abortion issue (vs. freedom), and many others...

But I agree, everyone should be allowed to believe in what they want and keep that to themselves...
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      08-11-2008, 01:04 PM   #32
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Maybe because some of those beliefs are trickling down to other (non-believer) people's lives -- like proposals to teach intelligent design in schools and ban evolution approach, like abortion issue (vs. freedom), and many others...

But I agree, everyone should be allowed to believe in what they want and keep that to themselves...
Then the secularists should keep their thoughts on abortion to themselves, and the secular public schools should be abolished.

I can't believe I posted a reply in this idiotic thread.
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      08-11-2008, 01:15 PM   #33
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My point is that you don't know everything that exists. PERIOD. Nobody knows... and to deny the fact that something exists that is larger and more powerful than us is saying otherwise.
We don’t know a lot of things YET. To claim supernatural without evidence is entering the world of fairytales and anecdotes. I could claim that there is a omnipotent undetectable gold saucer that orbits the earth and is the supreme power of the Universe.

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Science doesn't know. PERIOD. Really? Ya, really... notice how everything science has to explain unkown origins of the world and nature is all a "theory". Sure its based on facts... but its based on what we "know"... and if we can agree that we don't "know" everything...
I’ve explained this at least half a dozen times on this forum:

According to the United States National Academy of Sciences:

In common usage, the word theory is often used to signify a conjecture, an opinion, a speculation, or a hypothesis. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements which would be true independently of what people think about them.

In science a theory is a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation. For the scientist, "theory" is not in any way an antonym of "fact". For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and the general theory of relativity.

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… then beleiving the theory of a scientist takes as much faith as beleiving the theory of a creationist.
NO, no, no. Science is based on evidence and rigorous testing. Science is also open to change as new evidence comes in. Creationists base their knowledge on an anecdotal book. Scientific theories are testable, predictable and repeatable.

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I remember being in school and being shown all this stuff about a big explosion, and monkeys, and everything else that is taught to children about where we come from... me, being a scientific mind, even at a young age, needing to know how everything works, and how everything came to be, asked TONS of questions... and every answer was the same... its a "theory"... monkeys? well, ya, we evolved... see this chart of monkey men... so.. ok, then why is there a "missing link"? Am I just supposed to beleive this without that link? Where are these middle monkey men? if monkeys are still here, why are the middle ones not still here?
Humans and apes, (NOT MONKEYS) had common ancestors. This is easily observed in their DNA. Similarities are stunning. If you google evolution, it shows humans and modern apes (gibbon, siamang, gorilla, orangutan and chimpanzee) are two branches of the same tree…but I’m not a evolutionary biologist, I’m sure if you wanted you could brush up on your biology.

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Ok.... then they teach big bang... whatever... so an explosion created everything... I thought you just told me about the first law of thermodynamics... nothing can be created from nothing... its a law, right? ok.... so, here I am, a confused child... thinking to myself... people really beleive this crap?
First law of thermodynamics (conservation of energy) you refer to applies to closed thermodynamic systems.

Lets say that conservation of energy totally negates Bib Bang theory. It doesn’t , but if it did, why jump to supernatural god simply because we don’t understand something YET?

Using God as explanation leads to explanation being more puzzling then the puzzle. God explanation for origin of the Universe kills our quest for truth. It says that some dude on a cloud made stuff and we should go on with our lives. He will judge you and roast you if you don’t believe (spelled correctly btw) in HIM.
Now, that’s a load of crap.


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Then there is the other side, that says that God did it all, and we are just to trust blindly that he will take care of us... um... OK, well, at least in this scenario its explained with a neat story, and a book... the problem is that this book was written by 20 different people over centuries of time... its amazing that anything at all lines up...
Harry Potter is a “neat” book. It doesn’t make it true though.

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and now, I choose to beleive that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.
We didn’t know how to build a flyable machine until a century ago. Be patient and think critically.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
A lot of people deny that anything larger or more powerful then us exists because they live lives that are such a discusting moral cespool, that the thought of anyone "looking down on them" scares the shit of of them, and they beleive what they have to beleive to justify their actions.
Larger and powerful are very vague attributes. Please be specific.

The ones who are scared are the religious ones. They have been indoctrinated by fear of hell. Why would I be scared of something a don’t believe exists. I’m not afraid of dragons of Freddy Kruger either.

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Does religion cause a lot of problems? Yes... but in my mind, that is because religion is not so much about faith anymore to religous people, but its more about culture, and rituals... its outdated, ritualistic, human created religous nonsense... but that doesnt mean that God doesn't exist... it just means that people are idiots.
About God existence. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. God might exist. Those who make such claims have to provide detectable evidence and testable hypothesis. Book is not considered evidence.

Remember that plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not facts.

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Faith is the beleif in that which cannot be seen. Science explains things using events or objects that cannot be seen, have not been seen, and will probably never be seen.... therefore it requires faith... or "trust" in the scientific thoery. Everyone lives with faith, its the draw of the human mind... to search for our purpose, to "understand"... and its this faith, or "hope" if you want to call it by another word, that drives science, just as much as it drives religion. The "hope" that what we do here is not a waste, not for nothing... because the moment stop searching, happens to still be the same moment in which we die.
Science provides testable hypothesis with repeatable results. Quantum mechanics is the least understood part of modern physics. I certainly don’t claim to understand it, but IT WORKS. It repeats, its predictable and accurate.

Where is religion driven to? Certanly not toward serch for truth and how Universe works. It tells you the truth. Believe or burn.

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So I know what you DON'T beleive in, you made that very clear... so what do you beleive? I am seriosuly interested to here your theory on the world, our purpose here, etc..., rather than just hear you bash other peoples opinion.
Everyone has to determine their purpose in life. You very nicely stated yours, and mine doesn’t differ much. I can be nice to my family, friends without skydaddy. Universe works just fine without him.

If you talk about the purpose of human race, that is different.

Ask yourself this first: Is there a purpose? Is purpose necessary for existence of life? Could it be a random event? Just because someone has a need to believe in something, it doesn’t make it so.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
Your are not a TRUE ctitical thinker unless you can critisize both ends of the spectrum... and fully understand both sides as well.. and I don't just mean based on what some religous wacko apparently pushed on you at some point in your life, but actually looking for yourself.
Science has been wrong many times. Heck, some of todays theories will for sure be revised in the future. Science is a self correcting machine. It’s most cherished truths are hanging like piŮata to be crushed by anyone with a brilliant idea based on evidence.

Religion is closed for scrutiny. It claims monopoly on truth. Believe in a specific deity or roast forever.

Belief system that can’t withhold scrutiny is NOT worth having.
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      08-11-2008, 01:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
I think these types of threads are ones that shouldn't be allowed here. The topic wasn't even stating anything other the an opinion of beliefs on an extremely sensitive subject.

Why some people have such a HUGE problem with people believing in a higher being is beyond me. Just let us believe, and go on with your life. If it brings comfort and stability to some of us (errr....the majority of the world) big deal.

It's the extremists of each type of religion that take things to levels they shouldn't.


Why not? Everything else is up for debate, why not religion?

I don't have a problem of believing in a higher being, I have a problem of believing without evidence.

Thatís exactly why you have conflicting religions. anyone can claim anything, it canít be tested, and non-believers roast in hell.
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      08-11-2008, 01:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
Great post.

I actually belive the OP has the greatest potential to end up turning to religion later in life. A larger number of converts had the same mentality, even more negative.

I have no problem with the OP or any other who share his beliefs....but it sure does make me question how happy they are as a whole.
Are you saying one needs religion to be happy? Are you happy because you communicate to deity of your choice.


de∑lu∑sion


noun

Definition:

false belief: a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of a psychiatric condition
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      08-11-2008, 01:50 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
I'm not going to read the thread, because my IQ would probably drop by 20 points doing that, but I'll simply respond to the OP. Ever heard of free will? Rather important concept.
You've opened yourself for a nasty IQ joke, which I'll skip this time.

Free will. Yes I've heard of it. Are you saying that God can't stop us from doing horrible things, or that he WON'T?

If he can't, he is not a driving force, if he won't he is a voyeuristic sadist, no?

Now, I'm being kind here and talking about God in general. It gets really bizarre when we talk about religion-specific deity.
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      08-11-2008, 03:38 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
You've opened yourself for a nasty IQ joke, which I'll skip this time.

Free will. Yes I've heard of it. Are you saying that God can't stop us from doing horrible things, or that he WON'T?

If he can't, he is not a driving force, if he won't he is a voyeuristic sadist, no?

Now, I'm being kind here and talking about God in general. It gets really bizarre when we talk about religion-specific deity.
He won't.
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      08-12-2008, 09:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Maybe because some of those beliefs are trickling down to other (non-believer) people's lives -- like proposals to teach intelligent design in schools and ban evolution approach, like abortion issue (vs. freedom), and many others...

But I agree, everyone should be allowed to believe in what they want and keep that to themselves...
I don't think one should be banned over the other. I think both should be discussed in the classroom.

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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Why not? Everything else is up for debate, why not religion?

I don't have a problem of believing in a higher being, I have a problem of believing without evidence.

Thatís exactly why you have conflicting religions. anyone can claim anything, it canít be tested, and non-believers roast in hell.
It's the way you phrased it. You didn't set up your opinion/argument in the proper way to be discussed.

Believers evidence is things such as the bible, and places deemed holy.

Just as you can't disprove the existance either, so your argument is weak.
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Originally Posted by e90im View Post
Are you saying one needs religion to be happy? Are you happy because you communicate to deity of your choice.


de∑lu∑sion


noun

Definition:

false belief: a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of a psychiatric condition
I figured you'd say that. You completely missed my point. I'm not saying you need religion to be happy. What I'm saying is that your attitude towards others beliefs expresses a lot of negativity. Which in turn makes me question how happy a person is in general.

I lived a life of deep deep depression, suicidal thoughts, and an all out negative attitude towards life. Which started in high school. I did not want to live. I could never do it. I kept thinking the pain I would cause my parents, and how caluous and vain that would be. All this happened when I turned my back on my faith.

Is it so wrong that I've found faith to keep my mind focused on the positive and stray from the negativity that brought me to the darkest point in my life. I never ever expect anyone to just stop believing one way or another. It would be nice if the hatred for those of use who do believe, but do not wear our religions and point of views on our sleeves. If the dislike and/or disgust you have is with those who attempt to force their views upon others as the only way to live, you need to make that point more clear.
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      08-12-2008, 11:31 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Couch View Post
I don't think one should be banned over the other. I think both should be discussed in the classroom.
Not in the science classroom. History or philosophy, yes, but not science.


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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
It's the way you phrased it. You didn't set up your opinion/argument in the proper way to be discussed.
I think I phrased it just right to provoke thought.

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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
Believers evidence is things such as the bible, and places deemed holy.
So Harry Potter book and Hogwarts University are also evidence?

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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
Just as you can't disprove the existance either, so your argument is weak.
Your claim that supernatural, undetectable god governs Universe and that I canít disprove his existence.

Islam claims existence of Allah. Can you disprove it? Does that make Muslim right? Hindu?

It is the one that makes the claim who must produce evidence.

If I claimed that Flying Spaghetti Monster runs the show, would you go looking for it?


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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
I figured you'd say that. You completely missed my point. I'm not saying you need religion to be happy. What I'm saying is that your attitude towards others beliefs expresses a lot of negativity. Which in turn makes me question how happy a person is in general.
It's not negativity and hatred I express. It's ridicule.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
- Thomas Jefferson



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Originally Posted by Couch View Post
I lived a life of deep deep depression, suicidal thoughts, and an all out negative attitude towards life. Which started in high school. I did not want to live. I could never do it. I kept thinking the pain I would cause my parents, and how caluous and vain that would be. All this happened when I turned my back on my faith.

Is it so wrong that I've found faith to keep my mind focused on the positive and stray from the negativity that brought me to the darkest point in my life. I never ever expect anyone to just stop believing one way or another. It would be nice if the hatred for those of use who do believe, but do not wear our religions and point of views on our sleeves. If the dislike and/or disgust you have is with those who attempt to force their views upon others as the only way to live, you need to make that point more clear.
OK, your faith helped you overcome deep depression. If that's what it takes for you to feel better, go for it.

Is it more plausible that you find a way from a difficult situation by relaxing through prayer, thinking positively and being hopeful, or that supernatural man on a cloud created universe?

You got better = God exists reasoning is completely false.
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      08-12-2008, 11:33 AM   #40
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He won't.
Why not? That was my question at the beginning.
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      08-12-2008, 11:39 AM   #41
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Why do people feel like they have to flaunt the fact that they don't believe in God?

This thread is nuts. I'm not surprised though.
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      08-12-2008, 11:52 AM   #42
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Why do people feel like they have to flaunt the fact that they don't believe in God?

This thread is nuts. I'm not surprised though.
Because religious people tend to vote based on ancient bizarre book.
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      08-12-2008, 12:01 PM   #43
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If our freedom and our rights did not come from God, then they must have come from man. If man determines freedom and rights, then man may deny freedom and rights. There would be no freedom and there would be no rights that could be considered inalienable. Then the selection of leadership would become even more critically important.

The only reason we can claim inalienable rights is because these rights are given not by man, but by God.

Without God, the U.S. Constitution may as well be burned and replaced with edict of whomever is the current leader.
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      08-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #44
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If our freedom and our rights did not come from God, then they must have come from man. If man determines freedom and rights, then man may deny freedom and rights. There would be no freedom and there would be no rights that could be considered inalienable. Then the selection of leadership would become even more critically important.

The only reason we can claim inalienable rights is because these rights are given not by man, but by God.

Without God, the U.S. Constitution may as well be burned and replaced with edict of whomever is the current leader.
Which God handed us our rights? Be specific.
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