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      08-22-2008, 07:46 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
I decided to call up the BMW NA (800) number and, as I expected, they cannot confirm that the '09 M3 will have the updated iDrive. The rep that I spoke with explained that it's strongly rumored that the '09 M3s will all have the updated iDrive, but that they have not received official confirmation or any official word one way or another. So, if any BMW NA rep has told you one way or another, they're just guessing like the rest of us. In fact, the rep I spoke with stated that he would find out the same day as anyone with internet access.
Thank you for updating us.
I also called again today and talked to Dee, She said the same thing you just did. She did word it a little different and said that that on Aug 5th BMW came out and said that all 3 and 7 series will get the new Idrive starting with the new 09's She claimed that although the M cars are considered different, that for the purpose of the Idrive they would be included.


I think they are all full of shi** now.

I can tell you this much, If the Sales Manager, and BMWNA lied to me, and after all the trouble I had with my 12 hour old 08, I will cancel the order and move on to another car, I will recoupe the lost money on my trade, tax credit, and my deposit one way or another. In MN it's simple, take the dealer to court and you win.
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      08-22-2008, 07:54 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Many posters here are very eager to have a say in this bet, even though they aren't a part of it (kind of strange to me). As such, they seem very eager to prove that the 09 iDrive will be available from week 36 -- because many of them have W36 cars on order. C-Scott is one such person. Since so much time has elapsed since C-Scott said he was going to call BMW "now" and an update hasn't yet come (when he's been so eager to give every update in the first minute possible) -- it makes me wonder if C-Scott got a different answer today?

Clearly, different people are getting different answers -- all calling the same 1-800 number at BMWUSA. Obviously BMW has a vested interest in selling you your car -- no matter what the truth may be -- and may simply be telling you anything you want to hear. My GM friend has no reason to tell me anything other than what he was told. Until the first deliveries come rolling into the US, I doubt anybody really knows for sure.

Now that may all change by W36. After W36 rolls around, I think it will be very likely that solid information will be available about the builds -- even though they haven't landed in the US yet.

My bet with TLud is just a sporting one -- something that seems to be keeping this thread alive. I know I speak for myself, and possibly TLud when I say that we're not taking this too seriously in the first place.

(Written two hours ago before all of these recent updates.)
Excuse me there mister poker player, look who's post was before your's!
Guess I beat you to the punch

(Excuse me I wrote this post 5 hour's ago while I was taking a nap.) lol
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      08-22-2008, 08:07 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
My bet with TLud is just a sporting one -- something that seems to be keeping this thread alive. I know I speak for myself, and possibly TLud when I say that we're not taking this too seriously in the first place.
Indeed, especially as far as the bet is concerned.
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      08-22-2008, 08:13 PM   #114
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That's why they call these forums the crack pipe.
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      08-22-2008, 09:45 PM   #115
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My CA told me...
The General Sales Manager at my dealer said specifically...
My SA said...
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Do not believe everything you hear from anybody working at a dealership. There has always been as much misinformation coming from dealers as there is anywhere. EVERYTHING you hear from the dealer has to be taken with a grain of salt.
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      08-23-2008, 01:05 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
It's funny because after I wrote my message, I left it sitting on the computer and went downstairs to watch TV with the wife for a couple of hours. When I went back to the computer I saw all of the updates (yours included) and decided to post it anyways because in lieu of all of the updates, what I wrote two hours earlier seemed even more relevant. You've seem to have been so fast to respond to everything else in this thread, that the lack of response made me very curious...that you might have received a completely different story from BMWUSA today. And if it were me, and I had been expecting the 09 iDrive in my W36 order, and then got some seriously bad news that not only contradicted it but seemed very definitevely contradicted it...I'd be so pissed that I wouldn't want to post anything about it. I have to say that your update seems to have that exact tone to it.

Since you seemed to like the poker analogies so much. I'm curious...who has the Royal Flush today?



I agree 110%. But I think many people want to believe one thing or the other probably because they have an emotional interest in the outcome (such as they have a car on order and want the new iDrive). I look at it differently, almost from a marketing perspective and say to myself that introducing the new iDrive early in 09 on the M3 doesn't make much sense because in a way, it would be like BMW admitting that the 08 iDrive was a mistake (something they can never admit). So delaying the new iDrive introduction on a car that has only been on the US market 8 months makes more sense to me than the other alternative.
I think PG makes an excellent point. I personally canceled my 08 E92 2 weeks before supposed delivery because I wanted the new iDrive. I too will be disappointed if my 09 I ordered does not have it. My CA put in writing that it would have it but nonetheless, I will cancel this order as well if that turns out to be false
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      08-23-2008, 01:11 AM   #117
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i think that yes it will have new i drive, like bmw did in 2002 when they put the new i drive version with biggest screen in 2002 e46 m3, i think is going to be the same, and in 2010 i think we may see a change in the tail lights, like it happens in 2003 e46 m3, and in 2012 we might see a special pakage like it happens in 2005 e46 m3 competition pakage.
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      08-23-2008, 01:52 AM   #118
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i was remembering that in 2002 e46 we saw a change in the xenon headlights from the 2001, i was thinking, who knows? we may see newer headlights in 2009.
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      08-23-2008, 01:55 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I agree 110%. But I think many people want to believe one thing or the other probably because they have an emotional interest in the outcome (such as they have a car on order and want the new iDrive). I look at it differently, almost from a marketing perspective and say to myself that introducing the new iDrive early in 09 on the M3 doesn't make much sense because in a way, it would be like BMW admitting that the 08 iDrive was a mistake (something they can never admit). So delaying the new iDrive introduction on a car that has only been on the US market 8 months makes more sense to me than the other alternative.
Setting the bet aside, I do have an emotional interest in the outcome since I have an E92 scheduled for W36 production. That being the case, I'm certainly not going to read anything into what anyone tells me based on that. I'd rather have the truth, so I can make a decision as to how to handle my order. I agree with you and MB about people hearing what they want to hear, and dealers saying what they think their customer's want to hear. Me, I earn a living by being skeptical of just about everyone I meet and everything I hear and read.

I think the chips stack in favor of the M3 getting the iDrive in '09, hence my bet, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it either.

For those who just bought or were in the process of ordering a 2008 model, do you really think your dealer is going to tell you that BMW is turning right around and putting in the new and improved iDrive less than 6 months later? Of course not. They either want you to order/buy the '08 model or don't want you to feel bad at having just bought an outmoded car.

For those of you who have an order placed on an '09, do you think the dealer is going to give up a potential sale just because he doesn't know whether the '09 will have the new iDrive yet? If it does, he makes a sale. What happens if it doesn't? What good is his signature on your order sheet? Worst case scenario, he just sells your car to someone else. Meanwhile he's had your deposit collecting interest in the bank for at least a month or two before he gives it back.
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      08-23-2008, 06:53 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post

I agree 110%. But I think many people want to believe one thing or the other probably because they have an emotional interest in the outcome (such as they have a car on order and want the new iDrive). I look at it differently, almost from a marketing perspective and say to myself that introducing the new iDrive early in 09 on the M3 doesn't make much sense because in a way, it would be like BMW admitting that the 08 iDrive was a mistake (something they can never admit). So delaying the new iDrive introduction on a car that has only been on the US market 8 months makes more sense to me than the other alternative.
I agree with the first part of this comment (that people are too emotional about it), but I think you are way off when you say that introducing the new idrive early in the 09 m3 indicates that the 08 idrive was a mistake. the bottomline is that the new idrive was not ready when it was time to unveil the 2008 m3. bmw planned the introduction of the new idrive in 2009, so they had a decision to make. why would they hold back on releasing the m3 until 2009 for idrive when they could have an entire year of sales in 2008? i think that you are trying to make a connection that just isn't there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
I think the chips stack in favor of the M3 getting the iDrive in '09, hence my bet, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it either.

For those of you who have an order placed on an '09, do you think the dealer is going to give up a potential sale just because he doesn't know whether the '09 will have the new iDrive yet? If it does, he makes a sale. What happens if it doesn't? What good is his signature on your order sheet? Worst case scenario, he just sells your car to someone else. Meanwhile he's had your deposit collecting interest in the bank for at least a month or two before he gives it back.
Absolutely TLud, the chips definitely stack in favor of the M3 getting the iDrive in 2009. There are so many skeptics on this forum. Look at the evidence...we have seen both pictures and press releases detailing the new idrive in 2009 M3s for the UK and for Europe. We know that all German M3s are getting the new idrive in 2009. All M3s are made in Regensburg. We also know that all 3 series are getting a new idrive in 2009. So, BMW is going to give all 3 series a new idrive except for the M3? The flagship model is left out on a major upgrade...I don't think so.

For those who want to say 2009.5 or January production, okay...I think you are looking for an excuse. We already know that European spec 2009 M3s are getting the new idrive in Sep 2009. So BMW is going to hold off on giving the US Spec M3s the idrive for a few months? Again, doesn't make any sense at all (from both a production, economical, and sales perspective).

This whole debate is getting really really old. I will have a picture for all of you on Sept 20th when I pick up my US Spec Week 36 M3 in Grafenwoehr. Hopefully that will end this debate once and for all.
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      08-23-2008, 08:01 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post

I agree 110%. But I think many people want to believe one thing or the other probably because they have an emotional interest in the outcome (such as they have a car on order and want the new iDrive). Imakes more sense to me than the other alternative.

Hi Pencil, I agree with you 100% on this point. Let's look at my problem as a case in point. After reading many articles about the new M3, nothing I read had anything good to say about the Idrive. I remember one magazine even said for the low's on the car THAT STINKING IDRIVE Now what do I do ? I go out and order an 08 with that stinking idrive anyway.

I think imho, that BMW would want to change that perception ASAP because of all the bad press.

Now, I have all the problems with my 08, and it goes back to the dealer less then 12 hours later. They come back and give you an option, do you want another 08? we can get you one in two weeks. My response after reading all the posts on THIS forum about the idrive was, if the 09's are getting the new idrive I am waiting. After checking they came back and told me point blank you will get the new idrive, hence the reason I am waiting another 3 month's.

Can you imagine what I will do if the new car show's up without it?

By the way when you guy's started the bet, I was going to take you up on your offer but decided I better stick to that funny game of Black Jack instead, I am not very good at Poker

Scott
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      08-23-2008, 08:16 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I agree 110%. But I think many people want to believe one thing or the other probably because they have an emotional interest in the outcome (such as they have a car on order and want the new iDrive).
Probably true in some cases, PencilGeek. I'll add, though, that we've also seen plenty of cases of the opposite - people with '08 cars hoping that the '09 does not get it so they don't have to deal with the let down of missing it by a year. From an emotional legitimacy point of view, to me that is somewhat worse. Not that we should even care or keep a score on that point to begin with. The psychology is at least interesting though.

For me, I like to think I can predict BMW's moves pretty good. If I can no longer do that effectively, then it means in the future I might miss something when I think I have my bases covered. So I am interested in seeing the outcome. I don't even think I am going to equip my '09 M3 with iDrive so it might not matter to me in this case anyway. Plus I always planned to wait til spring '09 to get my car in the first place. I did not put off a planned purchase.

Oh and I'm still interested in whether I would have won the bet.

Quote:
I look at it differently, almost from a marketing perspective and say to myself that introducing the new iDrive early in 09 on the M3 doesn't make much sense because in a way, it would be like BMW admitting that the 08 iDrive was a mistake (something they can never admit). So delaying the new iDrive introduction on a car that has only been on the US market 8 months makes more sense to me than the other alternative.
There are several problems with that logic that I can see:

a) BMW has changed other things about the '09 M3, including the tail lights on the sedan, they've moved the window switches backward, and they've (according to south) changed the headrests for added safety. So they've already got improvements coming, one way or the other. These improvements - and year by year model improvements in general - need not be representative past failings at all. They are simply adding things as their R&D allows. Car buyers generally understand or can be made to understand that every year some new technology comes ready. Technology is not and ought not be shelved for some artificial period of time, just to keep current owners appeased.

b) The marketing is one thing, but the production costs are another. Maintaing two sets of parts and two build processes for two cars that would otherwise be parts-identical for a certain subsystem is going to add costs - however small - to the manufacturing process. This will likely trump any negative pushback from customers. And really, the marketing folks can spin anything. They are pretty good. As I allude to above, this will simpy be trumpeted as progress, and most BMW owners can relate to progress because - we are hard working and always look for improvement in ourselves.

c) The M3 is confirmed to be getting the new iDrive for MY2009 elsewhere in the world so BMW has already set a precedent.

Aside from that, suppose you win your bet and in fact the E92 M3 does not get the new iDrive until after the first of the year. Even if so, then everything you suggest as negatives still comes to pass. The E90 M3 will have already had the system, and the extra 3 months the E92 went without it does little or nothing to thwart any possible concerns that customers will see this as an admission of failure of the old system.
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      08-23-2008, 12:21 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post

Even though I have the bet to the contrary, I actually hope I lose it. I really don't want you guys to be disappointed. I'd rather lose $100 and see all you W36 orders get the new iDrive, than win and see all you guys disappointed and pissed off.
Thank you, that was very kind of you to say that. I got a laugh out of the bet to begin with!

I think what this whole thing boils down to is, the fact that nobody likes to be lied to or have things misrepresented. I bought the 08 knowing the pitfalls of the Idrive. It did not make any difference to me at the time.

Now that I was told if I want to wait for an 09 to get an updated drive, and it does not show up as promised, that would be a whole other story.

Case closed. we (all ) will not have to wait to much longer to find out.

Scott

Last edited by Captain Scott; 08-23-2008 at 12:45 PM.
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      08-23-2008, 02:21 PM   #124
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For someone who is just starting to spec out a new M3 Sedan, what are the major changes for 2009? I see that the controller is slightly different, and there are a few more buttons....otherwise, what are the major I-Drive changes?

thanks
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      08-23-2008, 04:13 PM   #125
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http://bmwcca.org/forum/showthread.p...1616#post11616


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      08-23-2008, 04:44 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanm3 View Post
For someone who is just starting to spec out a new M3 Sedan, what are the major changes for 2009? I see that the controller is slightly different, and there are a few more buttons....otherwise, what are the major I-Drive changes?

thanks
Here is a photo of the 2009 M3 Sedan interior with the new iDrive controller.
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      08-23-2008, 04:49 PM   #127
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Here is a photo of the 2009 M3 Sedan interior with the new iDrive controller.
looks nice
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      08-23-2008, 05:48 PM   #128
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ok, so we are talking about a new controller, 40GB hard drive, USB port for uploading music, nav data loaded on the HD instead of disk.....that's a nice upgrade for sure.
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      08-23-2008, 08:40 PM   #129
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I've done a search and couldn't find anything, so... with regard to MY2009, does anyone know the purpose of the lights above the tach? (along the metal trim)

I'm assuming that these are lights. It's noticeable on p2 of this thread.
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      08-23-2008, 11:26 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I've done a search and couldn't find anything, so... with regard to MY2009, does anyone know the purpose of the lights above the tach? (along the metal trim)

I'm assuming that these are lights. It's noticeable on p2 of this thread.
Those are not new. They are the shift lights on the DCT cars.
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      08-23-2008, 11:34 PM   #131
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Thanks dipan.
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      08-24-2008, 03:42 PM   #132
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I think BW was asking if the European maps come preloaded on the new iDrive. The ED FAQs say yes and so somehow confirm the introduction of the new iDrive:

Name:  ED.jpg
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