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      08-06-2008, 01:32 AM   #23
sayemthree
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the correct answer to your question lies here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=156103&page=5
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      08-06-2008, 10:36 AM   #24
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the correct answer to your question lies here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=156103&page=5
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      08-06-2008, 10:36 AM   #25
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I'll be leaving my 19" PS2's on for sure all winter. Will let you know how it went next spring. But as I've stated before I'm not going to try and drive it in the snow. M3's not really a car for snow even with snow tires. Let's see if I can keep it on the road when it gets cold out.
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      08-06-2008, 11:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
M3's not really a car for snow even with snow tires.
well, its no 4x4 monster, but it does a damn good job with the proper shoes. i think you'd be surprised. but you'll never know i guess if you are keeping those ps2s on.
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      08-06-2008, 11:13 AM   #27
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nope since I got a 4WD truck for bad weather
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      08-06-2008, 04:38 PM   #28
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If the M3 is a second car, and you can drive something else in snowy and/or near-freezing weather, it might be OK. If it is your daily driver, you definitely need snows. Do people get away with summer tires in marginal conditions? Sure. That doesn't mean it's smart. People survive russian roulette too.

The PS2 is a phenomenal tire, but dangerous in winter.
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      08-06-2008, 05:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben@tirerack View Post
If the M3 is a second car, and you can drive something else in snowy and/or near-freezing weather, it might be OK. If it is your daily driver, you definitely need snows. Do people get away with summer tires in marginal conditions? Sure. That doesn't mean it's smart. People survive russian roulette too.

The PS2 is a phenomenal tire, but dangerous in winter.
When is tirerack goign to offer winter packages for the m3?
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      08-06-2008, 09:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Windy View Post
the general rule with winters is that the smaller and thinner (within reason) usually lends to better traction and control. 18"s with 245 is a good setup for the M3.

The tire width I understand, but not the wheelsize. The tire diameter and circumference remain the same, so why does the amount of rubber between rim and road matter?

Not arguing or being a smartass. I've heard it before, so I'm presuming there's truth to it... I just don't get it.
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      08-06-2008, 11:19 PM   #31
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As far as I know, cost of wheels.
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      08-07-2008, 05:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben@tirerack View Post
If the M3 is a second car, and you can drive something else in snowy and/or near-freezing weather, it might be OK. If it is your daily driver, you definitely need snows. Do people get away with summer tires in marginal conditions? Sure. That doesn't mean it's smart. People survive russian roulette too.
+1. If you are going to drive a different car when it snows or conditions are poor (slush, cold etc), then you can make the argument not get winter tires. However, if this is not the case, then you are taking a risk driving with summer tires under winter conditions. You might get away with it but the alternative is sliding into a curb, another car, a ditch....

This is not about driving skills.
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      08-07-2008, 07:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoshozx View Post
When is tirerack goign to offer winter packages for the m3?
We should have something listed this fall. Snow tires are produced seasonally, so we do not have the full lineup in yet. I will post a thread on it as soon as we
have some packages listed ready to go.

If you need something early, and are happy to run the same size on all 4 corners, I could put a package together for you. Feel free to contact me if you are interested.
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      08-07-2008, 07:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcarajo View Post
The tire width I understand, but not the wheelsize. The tire diameter and circumference remain the same, so why does the amount of rubber between rim and road matter?

Not arguing or being a smartass. I've heard it before, so I'm presuming there's truth to it... I just don't get it.
+1 to chris719 on cost of wheels. Cost of tires is also a factor, 18" tires are usually less expensive than 19" tires.

Smaller diameter wheels often have narrower widths, allowing a narrower tire.

Another reason is that winter roads usually have more potholes, and a smaller wheel with a taller tire is less likely to be damaged by a pothole (more rubber between wheel and road to absorb impact).

Not all of these factors apply in every case, and you can certainly get a good winter package without changing wheel diameter, but the smaller diameter is often preferred.
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Last edited by ben@tirerack; 08-07-2008 at 07:49 AM. Reason: A 19' tire would be awfully big ;)
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      08-07-2008, 02:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben@tirerack View Post
We should have something listed this fall. Snow tires are produced seasonally, so we do not have the full lineup in yet. I will post a thread on it as soon as we
have some packages listed ready to go.

If you need something early, and are happy to run the same size on all 4 corners, I could put a package together for you. Feel free to contact me if you are interested.
Thanks, I don't need them just yet, it's still quite warm in NYC. I just want to make sure it will be offered when I do need to purchase them
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      08-07-2008, 03:34 PM   #36
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I'm baking in the sun and heat right now. Snow is the last thing on the mind. And according to Al Gore, you shouldn't worry about your M3 tires....Global Warming will take care of it for you.
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      08-08-2008, 03:35 PM   #37
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+10000! I had the M3 out in the cold with a bit of rain/sleet and it was LOOSE. A set of winter rubber seems like cheap insurance to me. Especially if you will drive the car daily in the cold months.
My car came with the 19" wheels and I was going to use them for snows and get different wheels for summer, are 19" to big for snows?
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      08-13-2008, 05:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by 997tt View Post
My car came with the 19" wheels and I was going to use them for snows and get different wheels for summer, are 19" to big for snows?
My understanding is that you need narrower tires in the snow, it provides better traction.. Apparently, 18" wheels are the minimum needed to clear the brakes, and they need to be staggered, according to my SA and the Tire Rack adviser. Snows make a big difference in Kansas City, I had them on my old 545 and it made the car feels like my old Audi A6 2.7T (AWD) in the snow. So, if you get more than 2-3 storms in the Winter months and the M3 is your daily drive, I would go with 18" wheels and tires. I usually install them from mid Nov to mid March. Good luck.
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      08-13-2008, 08:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
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My understanding is that you need narrower tires in the snow, it provides better traction. Apparently, 18" wheels are the minimum needed to clear the brakes, and they need to be staggered, according to my SA and the Tire Rack adviser.
Two things:

1) "Narrower" than what? Back in the E46 days, if you put 245 snows on the car then people would try to tell you that was way too wide. Now suddenly its ok just because that's what BMW recommends? Makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I would not go with 305s or anything ridiculous, but lets look at it this way - the tire companies make 255 and 265 width snow tires, so why not use them? They are not going to sell you something that simply won't work, they've got a reputation to uphold. And frankly unless someone can show me a test with real data that demonstrates 245s are actually providing noticeably more traction in real life situations, then I am going to stick with my 255s in rear (265s when I get an E9X m3).

Same goes for wheel size too, BTW. For the E46 everyone said to use 17s. Well, ok, it was the smallest wheel that would fit. Now 18s are the smallest wheel that fit. So are people suddenly going to have worse performance in the winter now? No way. The car will be fine, and plus, as someone outlined above, the only real reason for using a smaller wheel/tire with more profile in the winter is because they are potentially cheaper and more available, and because you have a bit more cushion for potholes. So if you run 19s in the summer and want to go with 19" snowtires, don't sweat it.

2). They don't need to be staggered. In fact BMW recommends 245s all around. Is this necessary? No. Will it help? Well, possibly. I've run 225F/255R on the M3 and 335i for years. They work great. Would it handle better with the same width all around? Maybe. Who can say? Will a car with 245s all around handle better than a car with, for example, 225F/245R? I really, really doubt it. So is adding another 1cm in the rear going to break the bank? No way. Would 225 F/R be better? Sure. But again, BMW is already saying 245s for the E9X M3. Is adding another 2cm in the rear to get you to stock width (for 19s) going to break the bank here? Again, I doubt it, but I can't tell you for sure how that will work yet since I haven't tried it.

Quote:
Snows make a big difference in Kansas City, I had them on my old 545 and it made the car feels like my old Audi A6 2.7T (AWD) in the snow. So, if you get more than 2-3 storms in the Winter months and the M3 is your daily drive, I would go with 18" wheels and tires. I usually install them from mid Nov to mid March. Good luck.
Agreed on all that.
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      08-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben@tirerack View Post
If the M3 is a second car, and you can drive something else in snowy and/or near-freezing weather, it might be OK. If it is your daily driver, you definitely need snows. Do people get away with summer tires in marginal conditions? Sure. That doesn't mean it's smart. People survive russian roulette too.

The PS2 is a phenomenal tire, but dangerous in winter.
Excellent advice.
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