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      08-05-2008, 05:35 PM   #1
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sports tires and snow

Is changing tires for the winter that important? I got the 19inch with sports tire options. Do i really need to change the tires for the winter?? thanks
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      08-05-2008, 05:38 PM   #2
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In Queens NY I wouldn't bother worrying about it. We barely get any snow, and if it happens to snow one day just leave it home. It'll be melted the next day.
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      08-05-2008, 05:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE View Post
Is changing tires for the winter that important? I got the 19inch with sports tire options. Do i really need to change the tires for the winter?? thanks
Do you wear flip-flops in the winter?
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      08-05-2008, 05:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
Do you wear flip-flops in the winter?
unlike your feet I'm pretty sure the tires don't care if it's cold out.
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      08-05-2008, 05:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
In Queens NY I wouldn't bother worrying about it. We barely get any snow, and if it happens to snow one day just leave it home. It'll be melted the next day.
While that may be true about the snow, you are completely ignoring the fact the summer tires are not designed and made for cold/freezing temperatures. The compound becomes as hard as a hockey puck in freezing temps and will loose traction.
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      08-05-2008, 05:43 PM   #6
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issue on the track yes. but not on the street. and it's never really too cold for a long time in that part of NY
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      08-05-2008, 05:43 PM   #7
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thats what I'm wondering, how much does temperature effect these tires?
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      08-05-2008, 05:46 PM   #8
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I'd imagine it would be a great lawsuit against BMW if they sold you stock tires that would slide off the road as soon as it gets to freezing temperatures. Of course the traction goes down with colder temps, but like I said unless you're on the track it's not an issue.
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      08-05-2008, 06:14 PM   #9
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All-season tires become hard and loose grip below 7C.

Summer sports tires are even worse. It says on the sidewall what sort of tires they are. J08M3 - If it says summer then BMW is off the hook.

The issue is not just snow. Winter tires are called winter tires because the rubber compound and tread are made for rain, ice, and snow at temperatures down to -15 to -20C. Winter tires are superior even when the temperature is 5C. Once the temperature starts going above 10C winter tires start to wear out quickly because the tires are soft.

You have an expensive car and I know you can afford winter tires. Just get them and use them. It is a pain storing a set of rims and tires but do it. Get 18 inch rims and use winter tires. They will drop your stopping distances in the winter and stop you from rear-ending me!!
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      08-05-2008, 07:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield View Post
All-season tires become hard and loose grip below 7C.

Summer sports tires are even worse. It says on the sidewall what sort of tires they are. J08M3 - If it says summer then BMW is off the hook.

The issue is not just snow. Winter tires are called winter tires because the rubber compound and tread are made for rain, ice, and snow at temperatures down to -15 to -20C. Winter tires are superior even when the temperature is 5C. Once the temperature starts going above 10C winter tires start to wear out quickly because the tires are soft.

You have an expensive car and I know you can afford winter tires. Just get them and use them. It is a pain storing a set of rims and tires but do it. Get 18 inch rims and use winter tires. They will drop your stopping distances in the winter and stop you from rear-ending me!!
You're in Ontario. It's different there. I used winter tires when I was in Minnesota; the temperatures made them definitely worth it. For someone in Brooklyn an argument can be easily made to keep the PS2s all year round. You really have to have constant temps near or below freezing to justify winter tires (or lots of snow, of course).

I would NOT put winters on if I was in Brooklyn. I've gone through two winters in New Jersey and Allentown. I did not need the winter tires there. Just remember, "No snow for you!".
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      08-05-2008, 08:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I'd imagine it would be a great lawsuit against BMW if they sold you stock tires that would slide off the road as soon as it gets to freezing temperatures. Of course the traction goes down with colder temps, but like I said unless you're on the track it's not an issue.

They print on their brochures that summer tires are not intended for use in the snow. In Germany if you are caught with summer tires in an area with snow, they can fine you for creating a danger to others or something along those lines.

I disagree about tires not needing traction unless you're on a track. The difference between hitting someone could be 1ft. If my tires can't get the right grip because they weren't made for a certain climate than that is all the difference in the world.

And while it says I live in CA, I am from NY/NJ. I have done the cold weather thing there - that's partly why I left. I have gotten stuck on the road before with summer tires in the snow. And as for cold weather driving, you can def. tell the difference.

My advice to the original poster is go on tire rack or even buy a used set of 17" or 18" rims with Blizzaks on them. You save miles on the expensive summer tires while getting the best possible level of traction possible.
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      08-05-2008, 08:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
unlike your feet I'm pretty sure the tires don't care if it's cold out.
While I admit the analogy is open to interpretation, my point was that one wouldn't wear shoes that are not appropriate for the climate. If you go hiking you wear hiking shoes not high heals, etc.
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      08-05-2008, 08:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
While that may be true about the snow, you are completely ignoring the fact the summer tires are not designed and made for cold/freezing temperatures. The compound becomes as hard as a hockey puck in freezing temps and will loose traction.


+10000! I had the M3 out in the cold with a bit of rain/sleet and it was LOOSE. A set of winter rubber seems like cheap insurance to me. Especially if you will drive the car daily in the cold months.
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      08-05-2008, 08:38 PM   #14
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I never said you don't need traction. I just don't think it's necessary to change these tires in this region of the country for the different seasons. Of course you would benefit if you do, but I doubt it would be worth it for normal driving on the street.
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      08-05-2008, 08:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE View Post
Is changing tires for the winter that important? I got the 19inch with sports tire options. Do i really need to change the tires for the winter?? thanks
You've got plenty of evidence via google and indeed via this thread.

Only way to know for sure is to try it yourself. I've heard accounts from folks on E90Post who've done just that and can't get the car to move for shit.

Basically, a car in the winter without proper tires is a timebomb, in my mind. I'll allow that I'm being a bit dramatic here, but realistically, if you can't control the car then you are basically risking the lives of others because you decided to cheap out. On the other hand if you are like Colin McRae (rest his soul) and can handle a car any time under any conditions then go ahead and drive around all winter on your hockey pucks. It might actually be fun or something.
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      08-05-2008, 09:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I never said you don't need traction. I just don't think it's necessary to change these tires in this region of the country for the different seasons. Of course you would benefit if you do, but I doubt it would be worth it for normal driving on the street.
+1
i used to live in vancouver before i moved to montreal. i used summer tires year round because it only snows for bout a week there and when it snows, i dont use my car... although people say the summer tires loose a great deal of traction when the temperature drops, in my experience, you only really get into trouble if you try to use summer tires on the snows. in freezing temperatures with no snow, traction on summer tires really isnt that bad.
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      08-05-2008, 10:02 PM   #17
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if you plan on driving your car in winter, spending 1000 or so for a winter set is a small price to pay for what could happen to you otherwise. stop being cheap bastards or don't drive it in winter.
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      08-05-2008, 10:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
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if you plan on driving your car in winter, spending 1000 or so for a winter set is a small price to pay for what could happen to you otherwise. stop being cheap bastards or don't drive it in winter.
Winter tires are awesome in near freezing weather. In anything above 40 - 45 degrees the summers are far superior. For most of the east coast, south of Boston, summers are the best choice.

If you want to be prepared for the 3 to 6 days per year you need the winters, and you don't mind the inferior performance the other 84 days of winter, get the winters.
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      08-05-2008, 10:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNTASTIE View Post
Is changing tires for the winter that important? I got the 19inch with sports tire options. Do i really need to change the tires for the winter?? thanks
IF you want to not die, yes.
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      08-05-2008, 10:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield View Post
Get 18 inch rims and use winter tires.
No question at all regarding the need for winter tires in New England, but why specifically 18's?
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      08-05-2008, 11:00 PM   #21
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I drove a G35 Coupe last winter around NJ/NY/CT with Yokohama Advans (with plenty of tread left) until the first dusting hit. I was nearly unable to get out of a mostly FLAT driveway with about 0.25" of snow in 25 F temps. These problems would be exacerbated by the M3's wider tires. So, I would say that in NY you really should get winter tires.

Max performance summer tires like the Advan, PS2, RE050A/01R, PZero, etc are very very dangerous in the winter, if only because of the low temperatures. They have poor grip even in the dry, they become very hard at sub 40 F temps. I cannot tell you how bad they are when the roads were not perfectly dry, I would not even risk it at all. I had traction control coming on at 5 mph coming to a stop on anything that wasn't completely down to the pavement. My brother actually had it even worse with his 335i because of the slightly wider tires + lack of an LSD, had to be pushed up a hill and out of a friend's driveway after a tiny amount of snowfall.

I bought cheap wheels and winter tires from Tire Rack. I did my research and ended up with Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3, which were new for last year and BMW's recommended winter tire IIRC for the M3.

The dry handling of this tire is incredible for a winter tire... I'm fairly sure it is better than any all season out there. I felt that in the dry, this tire was almost at the level of a summer tire (in the summer!) when the temperatures stayed below 45 F. Bottom line, in near freezing temps, a winter tire will probably have more grip, even in the dry, than a summer tire.

The snow performance was decent, it probably isn't up to the level of the agressive WS60 Blizzak, but I got up a steep hill with about 2-3 inches of snow on it, and I felt very confident with it. I would go as far to say that I would feel more comfortable in a RWD vehicle with winter tires than a FWD car with all season tires. Downsize if you can, just make sure you keep your diameters within 3%. I ran the smallest wheels that would clear the brakes (17", to make tires/wheels cheaper) and 225's all around with staggered profile. Wider tires are not your friend in the rain or snow.

This year I'll be driving a Z4M Roadster in the winter , so we'll see how that works out. I'm sure it will be fine with snow tires, the ground clearance will be the biggest problem.
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      08-06-2008, 12:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcarajo View Post
No question at all regarding the need for winter tires in New England, but why specifically 18's?
the general rule with winters is that the smaller and thinner (within reason) usually lends to better traction and control. 18"s with 245 is a good setup for the M3.
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